No more talk about Ryan Theriot

[don_kessinger_was_good]

No more maybes. I want this kid penciled in as a starting 2B or SS for the Cubs in 07. I've seen NOTHING from Theriot that's not to like. He makes contact, he makes things happen, has terrific speed, excellent defense at two positions. Enough already. Even the "small sample size" argument doesn't hold water anymore.

 

One position solved.

[Bruno7481]

Bo Hart says hello.

 

He should be on the team, but I wouldn't pencil him in as a starter automatically.

 

Most guys don't all of a sudden put up numbers in the major leagues that they never even approached in the minors.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Even the "small sample size" argument doesn't hold water anymore.

 

How do you figure?

[NCCubFan]

Pencil him in automatically, no. He could be Bo Hart or early 2005 Neifi Perez. However, I do think he deserves a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job in Spring Training.

[Sammy Sofa]

He should be given a chance to compete, sure, and short of being a complete disaster he's earned being the main middle infield backup. I'd still take Soriano over him a million times over. The Riot will get plenty of chances to spell for the brittle Izturis.

[Neuby]

I really want Soranio at second and unless Hendry finds a way to dump Izzy on some other team I don't think Theriot is gonna find a home at second. Theriot should get a plenty of playing time next year all over the diamond .

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Theriot should be an afterthought, nothing more. There are too many question marks to think about putting another marginal prospect in a starting role.

[Balsa]

I say we trade him for prospects.

[NewUserName]

I think there is no question that Soriano would be nice at 2nd. Short of him though I certainly would think that Theriot deserve a chance to beat out Cedeno or Izsutas.

[CubsWin]

Most guys don't all of a sudden put up numbers in the major leagues that they never even approached in the minors.

I don't think anyone is saying that Theriot is going to be able to do next year over a full season what he has done so far this season, which is hit .336/.415/.536 in 125 ABs. So this argument against Theriot starting at 2B next season doesn't hold water.

 

Let's look at Theriot's minor league numbers...

OBP- 2004: .367, 2005: .365, 2006: .367

AVG- 2004: .273, 2005: .304, 2006: .304

SB/CS- 2002: 32/8 in 489 ABs, 2003: 30/13 in 398 ABs, 13/11 in 330 ABs, 2005: 24/10 in 448 ABs, 2006: 14/3 in 280 ABs (25/5 in 405 ABs including the majors)

 

What dkwg did say, is that everything we have seen thus far from Theriot shows us that he is ready to play in the bigs and succeed. I don't think he is in the class of players that can be "penciled in". I reserve that for guys like Lee, Barrett, Ramirez (if he stays) and Murton (if he isn't traded away).

 

But I do think that Theriot's minor league numbers plus the 125 ABs in the bigs this year show us a batter who can be counted on to get on base about 35-37% of the time while hitting around .300, stealing 30-40 bases and playing a good defensive 2B. By that description, he is currently the best 2B on the team and better than a lot of starting 2B out there.

 

I have no quarrel with the idea of aquiring a better 2B than Theriot, but the evidence supports that Ryan Theriot is ready to be a solid lead-off hitter/secondbaseman in the major leagues.

[Soul]

Theriot will get his chance to compete. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he does great.

 

But put him as starter for next year now? No, that's just wrong. Good performances during garbage time earn you a long, hard look........but never an automatic starting job.

[chuckywang]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

[CubsWin]

Theriot will get his chance to compete. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he does great.

 

But put him as starter for next year now? No, that's just wrong. Good performances during garbage time earn you a long, hard look........but never an automatic starting job.

We agree that he shouldn't be handed the starting 2B job next season, but its more than just a "good performance during garbage time" though.

 

He is a fairly proven commodity. He is 26. Over the last three seasons in the minors he has had an OBP steady in the mid .360s. He hit .273 in '04, and .304 in '05 and '06. He historically will steal about 40 bases given 600 ABs. Yes, his performance since joining the Cubs can accurately be described as a hot streak, but it isn't completely out of character. He should be able to hit about .300 with an OBP of .360, steal some bases and play a good defensive 2B.

 

So if he was the starter next season, I wouldn't be shocked. He appears to be rather reliable. And his performance in "garbage time" this season only adds to his history of reliability.

[CubsWin]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

[chuckywang]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

[CubsWin]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

Actually its not as risky as you might think. For three years running, Theriot has put up an OBP in the mid-.360s in the minors. He hit .273 in '04, and .304 in each of the last two seasons. No one here or in the Cubs front office is expecting him to reproduce his numbers since joining the Cubs. You don't have to worry about that. But expecting him to have an OBP above .350, to hit around .300 and to steal about 40 bases in a full season is a fairly safe bet, not a risky one. Sure, he could produce below those numbers next season. But he hasn't for several years now and he is in his prime.

 

One thing that can be described as risky is Soriano's defense at the 2B position. I think most any team that signs him will want him to play in the OF.

[Drew Doughty]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

Actually its not as risky as you might think. For three years running, Theriot has put up an OBP in the mid-.360s in the minors. He hit .273 in '04, and .304 in each of the last two seasons. No one here or in the Cubs front office is expecting him to reproduce his numbers since joining the Cubs. You don't have to worry about that. But expecting him to have an OBP above .350, to hit around .300 and to steal about 40 bases in a full season is a fairly safe bet, not a risky one. Sure, he could produce below those numbers next season. But he hasn't for several years now and he is in his prime.

 

One thing that can be described as risky is Soriano's defense at the 2B position. I think most any team that signs him will want him to play in the OF.

 

I doubt that. His greatest value is as an extremely good offensive second basemen. He'll get more money that way too, and there will be teams that want him at 2nd and will offer more than teams that want him in LF since that position is easier to fill.

[Soul]

You might be right CW, but I for one would be suprised if Theriot hits .300/.360 over the course of an entire season next year.

 

Pleasantly suprised, no doubt. But suprised. If he earns the job, and is the best option, then so be it. I still see him as a good utility option for now.

[CubsWin]

His greatest value is as an extremely good offensive second basemen. He'll get more money that way too, and there will be teams that want him at 2nd and will offer more than teams that want him in LF since that position is easier to fill.

You might be right. All I hear about when it comes to Soriano is how terrible his defense at 2B was. His defense in LF this season was pretty good.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Don't let Dusty Baker fog your minds one last time. Despite where he has played, many are forgetting that Theriot is an excellent SHORTSTOP, it's a testament to his flexibility that he's been equally as effective at 2B, where Baker has almost exclusively used him.

 

Getting Soriano and using Theriot are thus not mutually exclusive, not by a long shot. My ideal scenario would be to acquire either Soriano as a FA or Tejada via trade, and use Theriot (with Izturis as his backup if anything goes wrong) at 2B or SS, depending on which star we bring in.

[CubsWin]

Don't let Dusty Baker fog your minds one last time. Despite where he has played, many are forgetting that Theriot is an excellent SHORTSTOP, it's a testament to his flexibility that he's been equally as effective at 2B, where Baker has almost exclusively used him.

 

Getting Soriano and using Theriot are thus not mutually exclusive, not by a long shot. My ideal scenario would be to acquire either Soriano as a FA or Tejada via trade, and use Theriot (with Izturis as his backup if anything goes wrong) at 2B or SS, depending on which star we bring in.

Theriot mostly played SS this season at Iowa. About 25% of the time he played 2B, while also playing a little LF.

 

I guess including SS as a possible position for him would be wise.

[Careless]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

In an extreme hitters park in 2004 2005 soriano hit:

2004 	Tex 	145 	608 	77 	170 	32 	4 	28 	91 	33 	121 	18 	5 	.280 	.324 	.484 	.808
2005 	Tex 	156 	637 	102 	171 	43 	2 	36 	104 	33 	125 	30 	2 	.268 	.309 	.512 	.821

that's one hell of a risk for what he'll probably be making next season

[CubsWin]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

In an extreme hitters park in 2004 2005 soriano hit:

2004 	Tex 	145 	608 	77 	170 	32 	4 	28 	91 	33 	121 	18 	5 	.280 	.324 	.484 	.808
2005 	Tex 	156 	637 	102 	171 	43 	2 	36 	104 	33 	125 	30 	2 	.268 	.309 	.512 	.821

that's one hell of a risk for what he'll probably be making next season

I agree. The career year factor with Soriano, doubled with his inability to play effective defense at 2B, make me nervous about playing him there. Even if he returns to his career norms, he would be an offensive upgrade at the 2B position which this team sorely needs, but will it be worth it at the cost? Could the Cubs do better by acquiring some other expensive bat? I think so.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Urgh...it seems like the Cubs are victims of Theriot's success.

How so?

 

Cause now the Cubs might consider Theriot as the starting 2B. That's risky, since Theriot doesn't even have one major league season under his belt and he's putting up numbers in the majors that he's never put up int he minors.

 

But if Theriot sucked, the Cubs might go out and spend for a major FA like Soriano. There are no question marks with Soriano.

 

I'm not saying that Theriot won't be a good 2B next season, I'm just saying it's risky.

Actually its not as risky as you might think. For three years running, Theriot has put up an OBP in the mid-.360s in the minors. He hit .273 in '04, and .304 in each of the last two seasons. No one here or in the Cubs front office is expecting him to reproduce his numbers since joining the Cubs. You don't have to worry about that. But expecting him to have an OBP above .350, to hit around .300 and to steal about 40 bases in a full season is a fairly safe bet, not a risky one.

 

Expecting Theriot to hit .300/.350 is extremely risky. Theriot was several years older than the levels he was at, the Bo Hart comparison is very, very apt.

[10man]

No more maybes. I want this kid penciled in as a starting 2B or SS for the Cubs in 07. I've seen NOTHING from Theriot that's not to like. He makes contact, he makes things happen, has terrific speed, excellent defense at two positions. Enough already. Even the "small sample size" argument doesn't hold water anymore.

 

One position solved.

Hendry and Dusty recently had a player that did as well or even better than Theriot in a similar number of appearances. They even rewarded the guy with a 2 year contract and lots of at bats and starts. Oh his name was Neifi Perez.