Cubs Offense

[jmajew]

I put this in another thread but I think this deserves its own. Since the All Star Break the Cubs have had the 12th best offense in baseball. There pitching Staff has been the 5th worst. Pre-All Star our team OBP was 317 since then it has been 327.

 

Everyone keeps talking about us needing to go out get offense well I say we don't need to get much. We need a platoon for Jones, Craig Wilson is perfect, we can either re-sign Pierre or go after Lofton to play center and bat leadoff. Then you allow Theriot to play 2b.

 

We can then use all of our available money to resign Ramirez and to go after Zito, Schmidt and Daisuke. Our concern should be our pitching not our offense.

[goonys evil twin]

Our concern should be pitching and offense.

 

 

The offense has been neglected for far too long.

[Guest]

they play one full season in the majors, not two half seasons.

[Abe Frohman]

Would love to have a healthy Lofton in CF, but that is about as likely as Pierre walking 50 times in a season. I think the Cubs need to make a serious run for a CFer with a big bat and see if they can keep Soriano in the NL (tall order). If Pierre could be had for $5 or 6 million a year, take him and go after Carlos Lee.

 

Most of all, the Cubs need at least two more solid starting pitchers. They should be easy to acquire because nobody else is going to need starting pitching.

[jmajew]

they play one full season in the majors, not two half seasons.

 

Thanks I"m not a moron. Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. I see no reason why the Cubs can't let go of Pierre and go after Lofton and allow Pagan to get a few spot starts out there. We need a platoon for Jones. Lofton, Theriot, DLee, Ramirez, Jones/Platoon, Murton, Barrett, Izturis/Cedeno is not a bad lineup.

 

ObP for this season for all of them. Lofton 363, Theriot 412 bit high prolly 360 next year, DLee 369, Ramirez 354, Jones vs RH 354 Wilson vs LH 354, Murton 362, Barrett 368, Izturis 282. I'm sorry but I don't see why this lineup could not compete. Am I missing something?

 

I just think the Cubs have a limited amount of resources and that spending them on the offense would be a mistake. Our pitching is the most serious problem.

Edited September 19, 2006 by jmajew

[Guest]

They should be easy to acquire because nobody else is going to need starting pitching

 

I assume that's tongue in cheek . . .

[goonys evil twin]

they play one full season in the majors, not two half seasons.

 

Thanks I"m not a moron. Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. I see no reason why the Cubs can't let go of Pierre and go after Lofton and allow Pagan to get a few spot starts out there. We need a platoon for Jones. Lofton, Theriot, DLee, Ramirez, Jones/Platoon, Murton, Barrett, Izturis/Cedeno is not a bad lineup.

 

ObP for this season for all of them. Lofton 363, Theriot 412 bit high prolly 360 next year, DLee 369, Ramirez 354, Jones vs RH 354 Wilson vs LH 354, Murton 362, Barrett 368, Izturis 282. I'm sorry but I don't see why this lineup could not compete. Am I missing something?

 

It's easier to say we need a platoon for Jones than it will be to convince Hendry to get one and the next manager to use it properly. And penciling in Theriot for a .360 OBP is quite aggressive.

[Abe Frohman]

They should be easy to acquire because nobody else is going to need starting pitching

 

I assume that's tongue in cheek . . .

 

Very much so.

[Soriano12]

go after Zito, Schmidt and Daisuke. Our concern should be our pitching not our offense.

 

I agree with ithe idea, but it will be a cold day in hell before the Cubs spend that much $$$$.

 

If fact the Cubs will be out-bid on all 3 players.

 

 

Zito - Muts

Schmidt - Mariners

Daisuke - Spankees

[RichHillIsABeast]

I think the Cubs will elect to go with pitching and defense, but there are rumors (Rosenthal?) that we're interested in Soriano for CF. We certainly seem to be willing to go outside the box in some areas.

 

I think the Cubs will go with strong MIF defense (Izturis and Giles maybe). I think Cedeno has really worn out his welcome and the job was his to lose.

 

Zambrano / FA / Hill / FA / Prior will probably be our rotation, with Prior not being the linchpin in our plans.

 

Wood will be back in the pen. Dempster has really exposed the need for another dominant arm there. If Wuertz stays a full year in the bigs, we should have a very good pen, assuming Dempster isn't given a prominent role.

 

Murton would remain if Soriano will accept the move to CF, although we're really going to have to pay out the backside for him.

 

The Cubs really could be good next season, and it wouldn't take a complete front office mindset change to do it.

[jmajew]

go after Zito, Schmidt and Daisuke. Our concern should be our pitching not our offense.

 

I agree with ithe idea, but it will be a cold day in hell before the Cubs spend that much $$$$.

 

If fact the Cubs will be out-bid on all 3 players.

 

 

Zito - Muts

Schmidt - Mariners

Daisuke - Spankees

 

I think we shoudl over any of those three a 3yr/42 mil deal and then go out and sign Vincente Padiall to 3 yr/ 18 mil. Our rotation Zambrano, Schmidt, Hill, Padilla, Prior is quality. With the moves I suggested and filling our bench with guys that are alrady in our system Cedeno, Moore, Pagan, Soto, Pie our payroll would be about 98.5 million. Which I believe will be the cubs Limit.

[Soriano12]

go after Zito, Schmidt and Daisuke. Our concern should be our pitching not our offense.

 

I agree with ithe idea, but it will be a cold day in hell before the Cubs spend that much $$$$.

 

If fact the Cubs will be out-bid on all 3 players.

 

 

Zito - Muts

Schmidt - Mariners

Daisuke - Spankees

 

I think we shoudl over any of those three a 3yr/42 mil deal and then go out and sign Vincente Padiall to 3 yr/ 18 mil.

 

In addition to Daisuke's base pay, he comes with a 20+ million dollar

bidding fee. Scratch him off the list.

 

Zito will get over 15/season based on demand.

 

That leaves Schmidt as the most realistic target.

 

I am Padilla fan though. I have been pushing for his signing for some

time now.

[KingCubsFan]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

[jmajew]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

[jmajew]

they play one full season in the majors, not two half seasons.

 

Thanks I"m not a moron. Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. I see no reason why the Cubs can't let go of Pierre and go after Lofton and allow Pagan to get a few spot starts out there. We need a platoon for Jones. Lofton, Theriot, DLee, Ramirez, Jones/Platoon, Murton, Barrett, Izturis/Cedeno is not a bad lineup.

 

ObP for this season for all of them. Lofton 363, Theriot 412 bit high prolly 360 next year, DLee 369, Ramirez 354, Jones vs RH 354 Wilson vs LH 354, Murton 362, Barrett 368, Izturis 282. I'm sorry but I don't see why this lineup could not compete. Am I missing something?

 

It's easier to say we need a platoon for Jones than it will be to convince Hendry to get one and the next manager to use it properly. And penciling in Theriot for a .360 OBP is quite aggressive.

 

It is agressive but even if it is 340 I'd still take it. How do you suggest we spend our money. Assuming a 100 million dollar limit. We should have about 30 million to work with this offseason.

[KingCubsFan]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

You're right. Let's ignore his minor league history in favor of 100 at bats at the end of a season.

[jmajew]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

You're right. Let's ignore his minor league history in favor of 100 at bats at the end of a season.

 

I never said ignore his minor league stats so don't put words in my mouth.

[Mephistopheles]

Ronny Cedeno hit .300 in 90 PA at the tail end of last season. This after hitting .355 in Triple A the same year. We all know how that one turned out.

[soccer10k]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

You're right. Let's ignore his minor league history in favor of 100 at bats at the end of a season.

 

You are contradicting yourself. You said "since when did MiL stats = ML stats?" but then you came back and said that minor league stats are indicative of what a player is likely to do in the ML level. Make up your mind. Theriot's MiL OBP's from 2003-2006 were .352, .367, .365, and .367. He's shown the ability to get on base consistently. That trend has continued to the ML level. I don't think he's going to consistently put up a .412 OBP like he has right now, but .360 is realistic.

[jmajew]

Ronny Cedeno hit .300 in 90 PA at the tail end of last season. This after hitting .355 in Triple A the same year. We all know how that one turned out.

 

Just because one guy failed doesn't mean that the next guy will. You have to give young players a shot. That is why teams like the Braves, Marlins, A's, and twins have been good for years now.

[KingCubsFan]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

You're right. Let's ignore his minor league history in favor of 100 at bats at the end of a season.

 

You are contradicting yourself. You said "since when did MiL stats = ML stats?" but then you came back and said that minor league stats are indicative of what a player is likely to do in the ML level. Make up your mind. Theriot's MiL OBP's from 2003-2006 were .352, .367, .365, and .367. He's shown the ability to get on base consistently. That trend has continued to the ML level. I don't think he's going to consistently put up a .412 OBP like he has right now, but .360 is realistic.

I'm not contradicting myself, you just need to step up your reading comprehension. I did say Minor League stats=/= Major League stats. When I say that, I mean that just because you hit .300 in AAA with 30 Hr's, it is not likely that you will have the same level of performance in your first major league year (Hint:Notice how I talked about Jack Cust). These stats don't magically translate, just ask Calvin Pickering. Just because Theriot put up a .360 OBP in AAA at the age of 26, does not mean he will automatically do this in the majors, and, in my opinion, it is stupid to pencil him in for identical numbers.

[Rob]

One more time, cause I don't think most people have picked up on this yet.

 

The Cubs had forced Ryan Theriot to switch-hit. He gave up on this prior to last season. His minor league numbers aren't nearly as useful as they would be if he still switch-hit. Last year is likely more indicitive of his true level of ability than the previous years.

[ToupeeOnFire]

I noticed this the other day. The Cubs have eclipsed the Pirates in runs scored and are not too far behind Milwaukee (although, admittedly, they've palyed one more game than either of those teams). The Cub offense has improved of late, but that was to be expected since the only direction it could go from its early futility was up.

 

That still doesn't excuse the fact that they have one of the worst offenses in baseball. Having Derrek Lee (prayers and best wishes, DLee) back for a full season will help, but they absolutely have to get a big bat. Ken Rosenthal mentioned that Cubs might be interested in Soriano as a centerfielder, and while Soriano is not my ideal player, I wonder if such a scenario might not be the best possible outcome. Money that would have gone to Pierre goes to Soriano, Murton stays in left and the Cubs can then sign a Mark Loretta type to a modest deal to play second. Murton would lead-off, Loretta-type would bat second, and up come the big boppers, with Izturis snuck away in the 8th hole. Use the leftover cash to get a couple of starters (or trade for one) and voila!

 

Of course, all is predicated on Aramis returning; I don't even want to think about the possiblilty of him opting out right now. Plus fixing the starting pitching - which has been as bad as the offense - is a lot easier said than done. But I think focusing on the offense is an absolute neccessity and if it means using up some of the available resources at the expense pitching, then it must be done. Pitchers are far too fickle to bet the farm on.

 

In short, I'm not saying ignore the rotation, but don't let that get in the way of improving the offense.

[kroth1342]

Theriot should be able to have a 360 OBP next year for the Cubs. Since 2004 when he stopped being a switch hitter he has had an OBP of 360. So I have faith he can keep that up. .

Since when did minor league statistics=major league statistics? I must have missed this. If true, our offseason should revolve around doing anything possible to get Jack Cust. We'd have a future MVP.

 

If he played like garbage while he had been up here I would say he isn't capable of doing this. But since he has had 100 at bats up at the big show and has had an OBP of 412 I feel fairly confident in saying he is capable of maintaining his minor league stats.

You're right. Let's ignore his minor league history in favor of 100 at bats at the end of a season.

 

You are contradicting yourself. You said "since when did MiL stats = ML stats?" but then you came back and said that minor league stats are indicative of what a player is likely to do in the ML level. Make up your mind. Theriot's MiL OBP's from 2003-2006 were .352, .367, .365, and .367. He's shown the ability to get on base consistently. That trend has continued to the ML level. I don't think he's going to consistently put up a .412 OBP like he has right now, but .360 is realistic.

 

While minor league stats can be indicative about how a player will perform in the majors, they certainly need to be translated (usually with some reduction) in order to project over a full major league season.

 

That being said, it doesn't seem out of the question that Theriot may produce an OBP of around .330-.345 over a full major league season. However, it may be that we are seeing Theriot's peak years, as he will be 27 next year, and while players on average peak in their age-27 season, I believe Nate Silver performed an analysis that showed second baseball peak earlier. I wouldn't want to commit to Theriot in his decline, it could be ugly.

[ToupeeOnFire]

Re: Theriot

 

I like Theriot.

 

I think ideally he can make a nice Craig Counsell-type career for himself.

 

In fact, assuming he can play shortstop, I wouldn't be against him playing short ahead of Cesar Izturis, which we know has no chance in hell of happening.

 

Therefore, I'm all for him making the roster as a back-up and assuming the Neifi role.

 

Good organizations, while they might find a place for an organizational soldier like Theriot, do not confuse a 26 year old minor league lifer (in relative terms) with a legitimate prospect based on a 100 at-bat late season call-up.