Jacque Jones Appreciation

[RockTheIvy]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

 

Are you just really, really lazy or something?

 

I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all?

 

Hustling, like aggressive, can hurt a team if it's not applied smartly. Some might call trying to stretch a single into a double a hustle play, but it's only hustle if you're safe. Otherwise it's stupidly running into outs. Baseball is not a balls to the wall sport.

 

Nah, that's true. But I would put that under stupidity. Different category all together. :lol:

[A New Era]

Jones is an acceptable RF as long as we can get some better players for 2b and CF.

[Sammy Sofa]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

 

Are you just really, really lazy or something?

 

I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all?

 

Hustling, like aggressive, can hurt a team if it's not applied smartly. Some might call trying to stretch a single into a double a hustle play, but it's only hustle if you're safe. Otherwise it's stupidly running into outs. Baseball is not a balls to the wall sport.

 

Thank you. I couldn't put it any better. Combine that with it seems most of the hustling complaints come over really superficial and unimportant plays and you have why I think the "husting" debate is a non-issue.

[Sammy Sofa]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

What do they gain besides making people "feel better?" It's completely arbritary as to whether or not "hustling" would actually change plays significantly and often enough to alter a team's season or even the game being played at the time.

 

 

Are you just really, really lazy or something?

 

I know "hustling" and "little things" are often not difference makers, but they absolutely cannot hurt a team. I realize Dunn, Ramirez and, well, Ramirez are who they are, but would it hurt them to run a little harder to first? To show they're teamates that they're giving their all?

 

I don't think I'm that lazy. I simply don't see the issue as something that serious or difference-making as others. I especially don't understand the idea that guys like Jones and Burnitz somehow have something up on Aramis, Manny and Dunn simply because they "hustle."

[Guest]

What does a player lose by hustling on every play?

 

use of their hamstring?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

We signed Jacque Jones???

[UK1679666180]

What is with this dumb concept of trying to compare Jones and Burnitz with Manny, Dunn, and Ramirez? Do you think those who prefer having players hustle are blind to the fact that of that thing called talent?

 

Who has said they would rather have Jones and Burnitz?

 

It's stupid to even try and assume that is what the gist of it is.

 

In '96 when A. Jones was a rookie with the Braves and he loafed to the ball against the Cubs and was benched the next inning by Cox, did he handle the situation correctly? Or was he in the wrong, given the obvious talents of a 19yo. starting and playing CF on a defending WS champion team?

[Rob]

What is with this dumb concept of trying to compare Jones and Burnitz with Manny, Dunn, and Ramirez? Do you think those who prefer having players hustle are blind to the fact that of that thing called talent?

 

You did say that nothing angers you more than not hustling.

 

As a paying fan, I feel I'm entitled to a quality product... especially considering the cash I've doled out over the years. I'm sure you probably feel the same.

 

Now if what you said earlier was really true, you'd be less offended by a team full of Juan Pierre's than a team of Adam Dunn's.

 

I don't believe that for a second.

 

You and I both know you'd be happier with the team if it was winning than if it wasn't. Hustle aside, you watch the games for the giddy feeling that a winning ballclub can give you. Sure, it'd be wonderful if there was hustle... but it's just the icing on the cake.

 

So if you don't want people to offend you with comparisons like Dunn versus Pierre, don't offend us with asinine rhetoric about lack of hustle being the biggest problem around. It's the lack of a quality product being put before us that has everybody on edge, and I'll call you a liar if you claim it to be anything else.

[UK1679666180]

When did I say lack of hustle was the biggest problem around?

 

The reason why it angers me more than anything else is b/c it is something that is the easiest to fix and should not even be an issue for a player.

 

I don't blame the struggles of the '06 Cubs on lack of hustle, never have and never will. To assume otherwise as I either stated or automatically assumed those who know my views on baseball would've been able to comprehend.

 

The thing that is stupid about mentioning Dunn vs. Pierre is I've never mentioned it as why does it have to be about 2 players? The issue isn't about how does hustle equate to more production or who has more production but isn't know for their hustle and how I can use as argumentative trump card, which is bogus.

 

It's not player A vs. player B, it's about player A (notice only one player) hustling.

[RichHillIsABeast]

We signed Jacque Jones???

 

You didn't get the memo?

[Sammy Sofa]

When did I say lack of hustle was the biggest problem around?

 

The reason why it angers me more than anything else is b/c it is something that is the easiest to fix and should not even be an issue for a player.

 

I don't blame the struggles of the '06 Cubs on lack of hustle, never have and never will. To assume otherwise as I either stated or automatically assumed those who know my views on baseball would've been able to comprehend.

 

The thing that is stupid about mentioning Dunn vs. Pierre is I've never mentioned it as why does it have to be about 2 players? The issue isn't about how does hustle equate to more production or who has more production but isn't know for their hustle and how I can use as argumentative trump card, which is bogus.

 

It's not player A vs. player B, it's about player A (notice only one player) hustling.

 

Do you want your pitcher bolting like crazy on every easy ground ball he hits when he's up to bat?

[UK1679666180]

 

Do you want your pitcher bolting like crazy on every easy ground ball he hits when he's up to bat?

 

Yeah, I want him hustling down the line and if he gets winded from that to where it throws off his pitching performance (even if he was the 3rd out), then the problem is his conditioning.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

Do you want your pitcher bolting like crazy on every easy ground ball he hits when he's up to bat?

 

Yeah, I want him hustling down the line and if he gets winded from that to where it throws off his pitching performance (even if he was the 3rd out), then the problem is his conditioning.

 

Trust me, I'm not worried about him getting "winded." I'm worried about the starting pitcher getting hurt unecessarily and, quite frankly, stupidly over something that's so meaningless and subjective.

 

And to clarify, I'm not talking about like what Z does when he gets an ACTUAL hit. There's a massive difference between trying to stretch out a legitimate hit and bolting down the line for 1st after hitting a lazy dribbler that the hitter only makes base on if the fielder Dunston-izes the ball into the stands.

[Rob]

When did I say lack of hustle was the biggest problem around?

 

The reason why it angers me more than anything else is b/c it is something that is the easiest to fix and should not even be an issue for a player.

 

So you're saying that the biggest problem isn't the one that angers you most? That's a rather illogical route to take... even for a fellow Cubs fan.

 

I don't blame the struggles of the '06 Cubs on lack of hustle, never have and never will. To assume otherwise as I either stated or automatically assumed those who know my views on baseball would've been able to comprehend.

 

The thing that is stupid about mentioning Dunn vs. Pierre is I've never mentioned it as why does it have to be about 2 players? The issue isn't about how does hustle equate to more production or who has more production but isn't know for their hustle and how I can use as argumentative trump card, which is bogus.

 

It's not player A vs. player B, it's about player A (notice only one player) hustling.

 

So what you're trying to say is that in the bottom of the ninth, in a 15-4 rout... Aramis should be hustling out routine grounders to first?

 

Hustle is just like anything else. Too much is counterproductive. Ask Aaron Rowand.

[UK1679666180]

Why have pitchers or any other player do sprints before each start? It increases the possibility of them getting injured.

 

If a pitcher pulls a muscle running down the line, it's either a fluke injury or he isn't in proper shape or stretched out enough.

 

The situation isn't dependent on whether or not he is a pitcher. A pitcher is more likely to get injured fielding a bunt than running down the line. Should we have them not hustle to field a bunt either?

 

I'll ask it again, since I do want an answer.

 

In '96 when A. Jones was a rookie with the Braves and he loafed to the ball against the Cubs and was benched the next inning by Cox, did he handle the situation correctly? Or was he in the wrong, given the obvious talents of a 19yo. starting and playing CF on a defending WS champion team?

[UK1679666180]

 

So you're saying that the biggest problem isn't the one that angers you most? That's a rather illogical route to take... even for a fellow Cubs fan.

 

So what you're trying to say is that in the bottom of the ninth, in a 15-4 rout... Aramis should be hustling out routine grounders to first?

 

Hustle is just like anything else. Too much is counterproductive. Ask Aaron Rowand.

 

How is that illogical? Baseball for me, goes beyond the Cubs and their problems. I'm not a Cubs fan 1st and then working from that premise. I am a fan of baseball 1st and then working from that premise.

 

Yes, Ramirez should be running out grounders in a game already decided.

 

Rowand's injury was a fluke injury, I see nothing wrong with what he did. If I was a Phils' fan, I'm hoping he keeps that same intensity and approach to the game.

[Bruno7481]

UK...

 

Players shouldn't even have to run. They should just paint zones onto the field. Depending on which zone you hit, that is how many runs you score.

 

 

:lol:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It seems like there's a difference in what exactly is being debated. Mojo seems to be talking in terms of "IF a player isn't going to hustle, I'm not going to thrash him for it", while others are saying "why can't the player hustle?" Anyone else see the difference in tense there?

[Sammy Sofa]

It seems like there's a difference in what exactly is being debated. Mojo seems to be talking in terms of "IF a player isn't going to hustle, I'm not going to thrash him for it", while others are saying "why can't the player hustle?" Anyone else see the difference in tense there?

 

I do and I agree. I think it just comes down to different schools of thought on the issue that aren't going to bend.

[Rob]

How is that illogical? Baseball for me, goes beyond the Cubs and their problems. I'm not a Cubs fan 1st and then working from that premise. I am a fan of baseball 1st and then working from that premise.

 

Yes, Ramirez should be running out grounders in a game already decided.

 

The best baseball is played by the best players... and Ramirez has shown time and time again his legs can't stand a 162 game season. Why put unnecessary stress on those legs? Whether I'm a Cubs fan or just a baseball fan in general, I'd rather see the best players out there than guys like Jose Macias... even if it means Aramis doesn't run out a meaningless grounder in an already lost game.

 

Small cost occassionally for a big gain over the course of a season... seems like a no brainer to me.

 

And in response to your question, it's extremely illogical. It's akin to having found out you're paralyzed from the waist down... and being most upset that you can't wiggle your toes anymore. The only reason you feel the way you do is some sort of emotional attachment. While emotional attachment isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's most certainly illogical in this case.

 

Rowand's injury was a fluke injury, I see nothing wrong with what he did. If I was a Phils' fan, I'm hoping he keeps that same intensity and approach to the game.

 

No. There really wasn't anything wrong with what Rowand did then. Bases loaded and two outs... he saved a bases clearing double, even if it was only the first inning.

 

But I sure wouldn't want him doing that when you're already down 10 runs in the ninth.

 

One nice play can cost him and his team a lot. Fluke or whatever you want to call it, without his hustle it wouldn't have happened. There's simply no debate.

 

I don't see anybody on my side of the fence proclaiming that hustle is always horrible. Why are you so bloody adamant that it's always good? Are you even willing to admit there's an obvious tradeoff in health?

[UK1679666180]

The best baseball is played by the best players... and Ramirez has shown time and time again his legs can't stand a 162 game season. Why put unnecessary stress on those legs? Whether I'm a Cubs fan or just a baseball fan in general, I'd rather see the best players out there than guys like Jose Macias... even if it means Aramis doesn't run out a meaningless grounder in an already lost game.

 

Small cost occassionally for a big gain over the course of a season... seems like a no brainer to me.

 

And in response to your question, it's extremely illogical. It's akin to having found out you're paralyzed from the waist down... and being most upset that you can't wiggle your toes anymore. The only reason you feel the way you do is some sort of emotional attachment. While emotional attachment isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's most certainly illogical in this case.

 

No. There really wasn't anything wrong with what Rowand did then. Bases loaded and two outs... he saved a bases clearing double, even if it was only the first inning.

 

But I sure wouldn't want him doing that when you're already down 10 runs in the ninth.

 

One nice play can cost him and his team a lot. Fluke or whatever you want to call it, without his hustle it wouldn't have happened. There's simply no debate.

 

I don't see anybody on my side of the fence proclaiming that hustle is always horrible. Why are you so bloody adamant that it's always good? Are you even willing to admit there's an obvious tradeoff in health?

 

To me, if I complain about a player with constant leg injuries, the 1st thing I look at his conditioning program. Oddly enough, one of things Ramirez worked on this past off-season was better conditioning to prevent leg injuries and not various opportunities when to loaf it.

 

Emotional attachment is probably the best way to describe it, I think it helps separate those who have a passion for the game and those who don't. I believe in a purity of the game and respect for the game as well as those who are watching, one of the ways to give back is by giving effort.

 

Hustle is always good, even with health considerations.

 

No one has answered my question about Andruw Jones....

[goonys evil twin]

Emotional attachment is probably the best way to describe it, I think it helps separate those who have a passion for the game and those who don't. I believe in a purity of the game and respect for the game as well as those who are watching, one of the ways to give back is by giving effort.

 

So somebody who doesn't get all that worked up about a guy not hustling doesn't have a passion for the game?

 

The purity of the game is a complete BS concept. There is nothing pure about baseball, there has never been anything pure about the game, and there never will be.

 

 

 

Aramis gives more to me as a fan by producing than any two-bit hustle monkey would ever be able to give back.

[UK1679666180]

I was speaking of emotional attachment to the game, not hustle, whatever makes you passionate about the game, run with it or whatever you want to do with it.

 

The purity of the game is a complete BS concept. There is nothing pure about baseball, there has never been anything pure about the game, and there never will be.

 

BS to you, sure. Not to me, there's something there with watching little league and high school kids who won't get drafted or play beyond HS, but love playing the game.

 

Aramis gives more to me as a fan by producing than any two-bit hustle monkey would ever be able to give back.

 

As he should, of course I said it was one of the ways as is production which leads to winning. That doesn't diminish or subtract my views of the game.

[Bruno7481]

Emotional attachment is probably the best way to describe it, I think it helps separate those who have a passion for the game and those who don't. I believe in a purity of the game and respect for the game as well as those who are watching, one of the ways to give back is by giving effort.

 

So somebody who doesn't get all that worked up about a guy not hustling doesn't have a passion for the game?

 

The purity of the game is a complete BS concept. There is nothing pure about baseball, there has never been anything pure about the game, and there never will be.

 

 

 

Aramis gives more to me as a fan by producing than any two-bit hustle monkey would ever be able to give back.

 

Spending my springs coaching a high school baseball team I am obligated to disagree with this. There is purity in those kids. They aren't playing for money, or fame. They play because they want to and they love the game. The reasons they play are pure.

 

90-95% of them won't play beyond high school, thats fine. Most of them will give me everything they have.

 

I'll take those kind of two-bit hustle monkey's every year.

[goonys evil twin]

I seperate major league baseball and little league/high school.