If Ramirez Leaves Via Free Agency, Should We Blow It Up?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If Ramirez opts out and signs elsewhere, should the Cubs enter a full rebuilding mode with the goal of contending in 2008-2009.

 

Without Ramirez, I don't see how the Cubs can plug enough holes to contend next season. The Cubs also have players with expiring contracts like Zambrano and Barrett that would fetch a nice payday in prospects and players if the Cubs were to eye rebuilding over trying to contend in 2008-2009.

 

Furthermore, if the Cubs dangled Derrek Lee on the trade market, how high would the offers be for him.

 

I'm not saying this is the course I'd want to take, and it's hard to imagine a team that can afford a 95+ million dollar payroll would need to rebuild, but if the team loses Ramirez, it is something that might need to be considered.

[CuseCubFan69]

It's already blown up IMO. This team is an rutterless boat just floating around mediocreville and will be for years to come. Edited August 31, 2006 by CuseCubFan69

[goonys evil twin]

It's hard to differentiate between what should, what could and what will be done.

 

You have to take into account that Hendry needs to improve things soon, so starting from scratch isn't going to happen. I believe blowing it up is an unnecessary step in the process. Back in 99/00 I was all for blowing it up, because there was not talent on the team. Now there is at least substantial talent, enough to form a core of players. The problem is too many crap role players. I think a good GM can get this team to the 90 win mark in 2007, and contending for the World Series soon after. The payroll is high enough to offer great flexibility for transactions. And the league is so weak, that it's a prime time to try and steal a pennant.

[CuseCubFan69]

It's hard to differentiate between what should, what could and what will be done.

 

You have to take into account that Hendry needs to improve things soon, so starting from scratch isn't going to happen. I believe blowing it up is an unnecessary step in the process. Back in 99/00 I was all for blowing it up, because there was not talent on the team. Now there is at least substantial talent, enough to form a core of players. The problem is too many crap role players. I think a good GM can get this team to the 90 win mark in 2007, and contending for the World Series soon after. The payroll is high enough to offer great flexibility for transactions. And the league is so weak, that it's a prime time to try and steal a pennant.

 

The league is weak and I think that the Cubs will continue to think good luck and clutch hitting will win that pennant thus, the same mentality will continue and they will battle to get those 70 to 80 wins.

[goonys evil twin]

The league is weak and I think that the Cubs will continue to think good luck and clutch hitting will win that pennant thus, the same mentality will continue and they will battle to get those 70 to 80 wins.

 

That's why I think it's important to distinguish between what should, could and will be done. Vance asked "should" be blow it up. I say no, you should go for it because only a couple of good moves could make this team a winner.

 

As for what will happen, well, there's no chance Hendry blows up and starts afresh. And there's only slightly more of a chance that he'll actually succeed in his efforts to build a winner.

[CuseCubFan69]

The league is weak and I think that the Cubs will continue to think good luck and clutch hitting will win that pennant thus, the same mentality will continue and they will battle to get those 70 to 80 wins.

 

That's why I think it's important to distinguish between what should, could and will be done. Vance asked "should" be blow it up. I say no, you should go for it because only a couple of good moves could make this team a winner.

 

As for what will happen, well, there's no chance Hendry blows up and starts afresh. And there's only slightly more of a chance that he'll actually succeed in his efforts to build a winner.

 

IMO Hendry doesn't the know the difference on what's needed and what he needs to look for in players. He's going to be thrilled to death with Jones numbers in right and continue to find players like that. He'll also continue to wait and see how the market falls for any impact hitters and go bargin shopping for the ones left over. My biggest problems are going to be involving Ramirez. If Hendry signs him to 13 I don't think he'll spend the cash to fix the rest the right way and if he goes I see a Bell like replacement because he's a "gamer".

[Sammy Sofa]

I wouldn't blow it up because I have little to no faith that this organization would have any idea what to do with the (ideally) talented young players they'd pull in. Short of a massive management and coaching overhaul, I see it paying off even less than the mess we have now.

[Mark_R]

If Ramirez leaves via FA, see what it would take to get ARod from the Yankees. I don't think you could ever get ARod at a cheaper price than you could this offseason.

 

Same goes with Pat Burrell.

 

Although I'd love all three of those (Ramirez, ARod, and Burrell) in our lineup next year, I realize it won't happen.

[Sammy Sofa]

If Ramirez leaves via FA, see what it would take to get ARod from the Yankees. I don't think you could ever get ARod at a cheaper price than you could this offseason.

 

Same goes with Pat Burrell.

 

Although I'd love all three of those (Ramirez, ARod, and Burrell) in our lineup next year, I realize it won't happen.

 

Even if Aramis stays I can't believe it wouldn't at least be worth a look at what it might take to get A-Rod. Like you said, unless he explodes and becomes a hero during the playoffs, he's probably gonna be the cheapest and most available he'll ever be during his prime career years. Hell, he could finally play SS again, where he friggin' belongs.

[Mark_R]

If Ramirez leaves via FA, see what it would take to get ARod from the Yankees. I don't think you could ever get ARod at a cheaper price than you could this offseason.

 

Same goes with Pat Burrell.

 

Although I'd love all three of those (Ramirez, ARod, and Burrell) in our lineup next year, I realize it won't happen.

 

Even if Aramis stays I can't believe it wouldn't at least be worth a look at what it might take to get A-Rod. Like you said, unless he explodes and becomes a hero during the playoffs, he's probably gonna be the cheapest and most available he'll ever be during his prime career years. Hell, he could finally play SS again, where he friggin' belongs.

 

To add on, if the desperation is high for the Yanks and Phils to deal their two overpaid sluggers, the cost of players could be low OR you could get the teams to eat some of the salary. If someone knew of what the Yanks owe ARod over the next 5 years of his deal, that'd be a great help. If we could give up decent prospects and had to pay 3/4 of the deal on both sides (Burrell's got what, 3/24 left? 3/18 would be nice for him) we would greatly improve our offense in 07.

 

Edit: just saw Burrell's deal, kinda steep... 13 and 14 million in 07 and 08 respectively. Phillies would have to eat some money on that.

[Laura]

If Ramirez leaves via FA, see what it would take to get ARod from the Yankees. I don't think you could ever get ARod at a cheaper price than you could this offseason.

 

Same goes with Pat Burrell.

 

Although I'd love all three of those (Ramirez, ARod, and Burrell) in our lineup next year, I realize it won't happen.

 

Even if Aramis stays I can't believe it wouldn't at least be worth a look at what it might take to get A-Rod. Like you said, unless he explodes and becomes a hero during the playoffs, he's probably gonna be the cheapest and most available he'll ever be during his prime career years. Hell, he could finally play SS again, where he friggin' belongs.

 

The Cubs would play ARod at 3B so Cesar can play SS.

[CuseCubFan69]

If Ramirez leaves via FA, see what it would take to get ARod from the Yankees. I don't think you could ever get ARod at a cheaper price than you could this offseason.

 

Same goes with Pat Burrell.

 

Although I'd love all three of those (Ramirez, ARod, and Burrell) in our lineup next year, I realize it won't happen.

 

Even if Aramis stays I can't believe it wouldn't at least be worth a look at what it might take to get A-Rod. Like you said, unless he explodes and becomes a hero during the playoffs, he's probably gonna be the cheapest and most available he'll ever be during his prime career years. Hell, he could finally play SS again, where he friggin' belongs.

 

The Cubs would play ARod at 3B so Cesar can play SS.

 

They put one of your players on the DL and you trade for one of their underachieving players...that's the Chicago way.

Edited August 31, 2006 by CuseCubFan69

[Laura]

The league is weak and I think that the Cubs will continue to think good luck and clutch hitting will win that pennant thus, the same mentality will continue and they will battle to get those 70 to 80 wins.

 

That's why I think it's important to distinguish between what should, could and will be done. Vance asked "should" be blow it up. I say no, you should go for it because only a couple of good moves could make this team a winner.

 

As for what will happen, well, there's no chance Hendry blows up and starts afresh. And there's only slightly more of a chance that he'll actually succeed in his efforts to build a winner.

 

What needs to be blown up is the front office. That may not ever happen while the Trib owns the Cubs.

 

One possibility of the Cubs being off-loaded -- or at least seeing changes in the front office -- would be seeing Aramis walk this off-season and Zambrano walk the next off-season. Maybe then there would be a reaction?

 

By then, though, Hendry will have locked up mediocre replacements in CF, LF, SS (don't want Cesar to walk after '08!), 3B and 2B, and given them all multi-year contracts with no-trade clauses. Because he can.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Lee has an NTC this season and then 10/5 rights after that, right? Trading him is going to be tough.

 

But, yeah, blow up the team if ARam leaves. Goodbye Z. :cry:

[Banedon]

Lee has an NTC this season and then 10/5 rights after that, right? Trading him is going to be tough.

 

But, yeah, blow up the team if ARam leaves. Goodbye Z. :cry:

 

I think Z and Lee are going to be cornerstones even if Aram leaves.

[JeffH]

This team is an utterless boat just floating around mediocreville and will be for years to come.

 

If you want to see Mediocreville, you're going to have to look in your rearview mirror.

[goonys evil twin]

Lee has an NTC this season and then 10/5 rights after that, right? Trading him is going to be tough.

 

But, yeah, blow up the team if ARam leaves. Goodbye Z. :cry:

 

I think Z and Lee are going to be cornerstones even if Aram leaves.

 

It wasn't that long ago that Z was considered the weak link of the pitching staff and there were rumors this front office was all about trading him. I wouldn't be surprised if they still thought he wasn't man enough to be the cornerstone, or something similarly foolish.

[CuseCubFan69]

Lee has an NTC this season and then 10/5 rights after that, right? Trading him is going to be tough.

 

But, yeah, blow up the team if ARam leaves. Goodbye Z. :cry:

 

I think Z and Lee are going to be cornerstones even if Aram leaves.

 

It wasn't that long ago that Z was considered the weak link of the pitching staff and there were rumors this front office was all about trading him. I wouldn't be surprised if they still thought he wasn't man enough to be the cornerstone, or something similarly foolish.

 

I thought that Baker taught him how to be a tough guy by throwing 120 pitches every game?

[USSoccer]

If Aramis leaves, you might as well trade Z, Barrett, Prior and Lee. Our offense is already really bad. Take Ramirez away, and replace him with Mevlin Mora or Bell, and it's downright terrible.

 

Ramirez must be signed.

[wilk]

Why/how would we trade for Mora? Why would you choose him for the example?

[CubinNY]

Why/how would we trade for Mora? Why would you choose him for the example?

 

Because he is a bad baseball player and if Aramis leaves he can't do much more harm.

 

Sarasm

[USSoccer]

Why/how would we trade for Mora? Why would you choose him for the example?

 

Just a name I'd think Hendry would like. Veteran, versitale, etc.

[thedaymen]

That's why I think it's important to distinguish between what should, could and will be done. Vance asked "should" be blow it up. I say no, you should go for it because only a couple of good moves could make this team a winner.

 

As for what will happen, well, there's no chance Hendry blows up and starts afresh. And there's only slightly more of a chance that he'll actually succeed in his efforts to build a winner.

 

I think the would/should is crucial to these arguments. Last week when I posted that the Cubs are going to sign Pierre, Trachsel and Floyd to multi-year 8 digit contracts (while letting Aramis walk) I was only partially kidding. These are the kind of players that Hendry likes and will get. A guy thats fast, a veteran innings-eater that knows how to win, and a relatively cheap power guy who might give "lightning in a bottle" or might play 30 games and bat .220 . I think all of these guys were all-stars once, and the Cubs will sign them assuming they will be again.

 

Do I think this is the path the Cubs should take? Hell no. That being said, if I was told the Cubs would blow the team up or do what I just typed above; I would bet on JP, Trax and Floyd playing 81 games in Wrigley next year.

 

 

(combined)

[Shavo]

I don't care who leaves. Lee and Zambrano are untouchable.

 

And can a thread get any more negative? :shock:

[USSoccer]

I don't care who leaves. Lee and Zambrano are untouchable.

 

And can a thread get any more negative? :shock:

 

You should care. Ramirez is every bit as important as Lee, and only slightly less important than Z. Losing him immediately dooms us to being terrible again with virtually no hope of competing for at least 2 seasons.