The Soccer Thread

August 13, 2008

I truthfully expect a top 4 finish in the next 3 World Cups with this group. We have too much talent coming to fail, and too much money invested in the product.

Wow.

I meant within, not in each of the next 3. I realized I wrote that a little funny.

Gotcha.

Either way, that'd be amazing.

USSoccer · August 13, 2008

I truthfully expect a top 4 finish in the next 3 World Cups with this group. We have too much talent coming to fail, and too much money invested in the product.

Wow.

I meant within, not in each of the next 3. I realized I wrote that a little funny.

Gotcha.

Either way, that'd be amazing.

All it takes really is a quasi-favorable group draw. We went to the quarters (and should have won) in 2002 with what's really a crappy overall roster when you look back.

The only guys from 2002 I would travel in time to bring forward would be Mathis, O'Brien and Pope. I think Jozy will be better than McBride was, I think any one of our current mids can be better than Reyna, our role players are all better, our defenders should be better, and the keeper is about a wash.

Anyways, with the talent we have currently on the senior team and what's forthcoming, all that stands between us and progress is tactical awareness and coaching.

sethuel1 · August 13, 2008

bah, my dvr can't tape a two hour chunk in the middle of 7 hours of olympics coverage. Guess I need to free up 7 hours of space so I can get two hours out of it.

USSoccer · August 13, 2008

I seriously would like to kick Michael Orozco in the sack.

EDIT:

And Nowak did exactly what I thought he would do, which was "something stupid tactically".

Jesus, the USSF is it's own worst enemy.

Jon · August 13, 2008

Why did Altidore only play 45?

wolf stansson · August 13, 2008

Why did Altidore only play 45?

Orozco took a red in the third minute, they dropped Jozy into the midfield and eventually brought Feilhaber in to be a more defensive presence.

I can't believe I wake up two hours early, turn on my dvr and settle in just in time to see a bonehead elbow get Orozco sent off. F me.

All I know is that elbow was pretty standard fare. There are elbows like that thrown in every run of the mill soccer game you'll ever see from high school games to Champions League games. Difference being that the people who throw them usually are smart enough to realize the ref is two feet away and they should wait until he's gone to get their shot in. Unfreakingbelievable. Orozco plays in the mexican league and going by what I've seen of the mexican teams in Super Liga and with the MNT, I can't say I'm surprised it happened. It very easily could have cost us a medal. If we won, which I think we could have, we would have drawn Ivory Coast. We can beat them and we're in a medal game.

Bah...I hate this. Now visions of the elbow, Holden's stupid [expletive] non-pass against the Netherlands, his stupid foul against the Netherlands and being the only guy in the wall who jumped on that free kick.

F%$*

Edit - I guess the bright side is that we have a full squad for the qualifier in Guatemala City.

Really this is all I care about:

-------Altidore--------Cooper---------

If those are the starting forwards then I'll be happy (I'm not gonna be happy).

USSoccer · August 13, 2008

Why did Altidore only play 45?
Orozco took a red in the third minute, they dropped Jozy into the midfield and eventually brought Feilhaber in to be a more defensive presence.

I can't believe I wake up two hours early, turn on my dvr and settle in just in time to see a bonehead elbow get Orozco sent off. F me.

All I know is that elbow was pretty standard fare. There are elbows like that thrown in every run of the mill soccer game you'll ever see from high school games to Champions League games. Difference being that the people who throw them usually are smart enough to realize the ref is two feet away and they should wait until he's gone to get their shot in. Unfreakingbelievable. Orozco plays in the mexican league and going by what I've seen of the mexican teams in Super Liga and with the MNT, I can't say I'm surprised it happened. It very easily could have cost us a medal. If we won, which I think we could have, we would have drawn Ivory Coast. We can beat them and we're in a medal game.

Bah...I hate this. Now visions of the elbow, Holden's stupid soapdropping non-pass against the Netherlands, his stupid foul against the Netherlands and being the only guy in the wall who jumped on that free kick.

F%$*

Edit - I guess the bright side is that we have a full squad for the qualifier in Guatemala City.

Really this is all I care about:
-------Altidore--------Cooper---------

If those are the starting forwards then I'll be happy (I'm not gonna be happy).

You aren't going to be happy. Be prepared for:

----Ching----Johnson-------

And that ref apparently has a reputation for being quick with the whistle.

However, that actually underlines a kind of disturbing trend. In two of our last 4 serious competitions we've had card-happy refs work important games, and in all of them, we've had players sent off.

Why aren't our coaches prepping our guys for this? Or is it that our players are just that stupid?

Either way, today's loss was really disappointing. It's no longer acceptable to point to 65 good minutes out of 270+ and say we gave a good effort. Yeah, we pulled 4 points, but we played like dogcrap when it mattered. Tactically, in the Nigeria game, Nowak might as well have put on a Bruce Arena mask, because we sat back until the 75th minute and his subs were idiotic.

wolf stansson · August 14, 2008

IF:

Holden crosses to Kljestan instead of shooting into the keeper we beat Holland and win the group.

Sacha Kljestan doesn't jump on the wall it ricochets and we win the group.

Michael Bradley lets Stuart Holden take the yellow for delaying play, he starts against Nigeria and we have one of our strongest players and maybe win the group.

Orozco gets a brain and doesn't elbow that flopper, no red; we maybe win the group.

The [expletive] call by the German ref on Orozco is only a yellow, we play full strength and maybe win the group.

The ref doesn't call a very sketchy penalty for Holland, they tie and we advance at second in the group.

As you see, there are 6 occurrences in two games that drastically changed our chances of advancing. FOUR (4!!!!) of them were things that were totally in our power! The last two weren't and calls that are out of your power are going to go against you in any tournament. It's just going to happen. That's why it is even more inexcusable to have 4 f ups where you shot yourself in your foot. You have to be professional and play prepared and smart soccer to get the results to match the talent on the field. Very disappointing tournament.

USSoccer · August 14, 2008

IF:

Holden crosses to Kljestan instead of shooting into the keeper we beat Holland and win the group.

Sacha Kljestan doesn't jump on the wall it ricochets and we win the group.

Michael Bradley lets Stuart Holden take the yellow for delaying play, he starts against Nigeria and we have one of our strongest players and maybe win the group.

Orozco gets a brain and doesn't elbow that flopper, no red; we maybe win the group.

The [expletive] call by the German ref on Orozco is only a yellow, we play full strength and maybe win the group.

The ref doesn't call a very sketchy penalty for Holland, they tie and we advance at second in the group.

As you see, there are 6 occurrences in two games that drastically changed our chances of advancing. FOUR (4!!!!) of them were things that were totally in our power! The last two weren't and calls that are out of your power are going to go against you in any tournament. It's just going to happen. That's why it is even more inexcusable to have 4 f ups where you shot yourself in your foot. You have to be professional and play prepared and smart soccer to get the results to match the talent on the field. Very disappointing tournament.

We had 8 yellow cards and 1 red in 3 games. That's stupid, stupid soccer. A couple of those could be chalked up to refs calling a youth tournament tight, but we played dumb. We played tactically dumb, physically dumb and, as you noted, made some glaring errors that a team in a group like ours can't make.

One thing that's getting old is the mainstream soccer media talking about "guts" and "effort". That ish is meaningless now. No one in the USSF should be happy with that.

I really, really think we're better than this, and I don't want to see a generation and a half of real, real talent pissed away at the hands of Nowak/Rongen/Bradley.

wolf stansson · August 14, 2008

9 months from now, I will be Argentina, trying to kidnap this baby.

Feilhaber to New England? He, Shalrie Joseph, Steve Ralston and Syanni Nyassi would be the best midfield in MLS. Better than Beckham, Donovan, Lewis and whoever.

USSoccer · August 14, 2008

Roster for Guatemala:

GOALKEEPERS: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan.

DEFENDERS: Oguchi Onyewu, Carlos Bocanegra, Heath Pearce, Steve Cherundolo, Frankie Hejduk, Jay DeMerit.

MIDFIELDERS: Michael Bradley, Maurice Edu, Sacha Kljestan, Pablo Mastroeni, Eddie Lewis.

FORWARDS: Landon Donovan, Eddie Johnson, Brian Ching, Clint Dempsey.

Now, there's one open spot....which should go to Kenny Cooper. If it doesn't, I'm not going to be happy.

EJ completely doesn't deserve the call up. I don't get that at all. He peaked in 2004. He sucks. Ching is a less skilled Cooper.

I get the no Jozy, no Freddy thing, cause they need to meet their clubs. But why no Benny?

And Frankie Hejduk shouldn't be there.

Our lineup, as it stands, is going to look like this:

-------Howard---------

--Pearce--Gooch---Boca---'Dolo

--Bradley----------Mastro---

--Donovan------Lewis

---Ching----Dempsey

wolf stansson · August 14, 2008

You probably nailed the starting 11 and it is [expletive].

And I don't mean it is the [expletive], I'm mean it is [expletive].

Screw Eddie Lewis, screw Eddie Johnson, screw Brian Ching, screw Carlos Bocanegra and bring on Altidore, Cooper, Adu and Feilhaber.

This is the toughest game of our round and we are treating it like a second rate friendly (unless Cooper is called up in which case I take it all back).

shnsajax · August 14, 2008

You probably nailed the starting 11 and it is ****.

And I don't mean it is the ****, I'm mean it is ****.

Screw Eddie Lewis, screw Eddie Johnson, screw Brian Ching, screw Carlos Bocanegra and bring on Altidore, Cooper, Adu and Feilhaber.

This is the toughest game of our round and we are treating it like a second rate friendly (unless Cooper is called up in which case I take it all back).

I'm starting to have flashbacks of 1998.

USSoccer · August 15, 2008

You probably nailed the starting 11 and it is ****.

And I don't mean it is the ****, I'm mean it is ****.

Screw Eddie Lewis, screw Eddie Johnson, screw Brian Ching, screw Carlos Bocanegra and bring on Altidore, Cooper, Adu and Feilhaber.

This is the toughest game of our round and we are treating it like a second rate friendly (unless Cooper is called up in which case I take it all back).

I know the thinking is that this is going to be the toughest tie in the 2nd round of WCQ, on the road, hostile stadium, etc, so thus the veteran heavy lineup...

...but do you really think we'd drop points to fricking Guatemala if we had Parkhurst in the central defense, Wynne at least on the roster, Benny and Bradley in the middle, and Cooper and Davies or Dempsey up front?

Come on, Bradley. This ish is getting old fast.

There are 5 really questionable decisions on this roster:

No Kenny Cooper (Pending)

Hejduk over Wynne

No Benny Feilhaber

EJ

Eddie Lewis

I mean, I like Sascha getting the call, but Hejduk shouldn't be in the pool anymore except in case of a rash of injuries to the backs. He's not going to figure into 2010 (at least he'd better not). The Hejduk thing pisses me off more than anything else, really. Lewis, fine. He's actually still pretty decent. Benny? He should be there if he's fit because he's our only real linking mid. But if he needs to report to Derby or find another club, I kind of get it. EJ? F him, but at least he's still theoretically with some upside. Cooper will likely be the 18th guy, so that tempers EJ wearing the shirt. Jozy is hurt or whatever, so fine.

But Hejduk? And are we seriously going to only play Gooch and Boca in the central defense?

Heaven help us if one of them get hurt in the Hex. We haven't played anyone else in that spot yet.

If this were the Hex and not the goofy assed 2nd round...I'd almost wish for a shock loss just to kill off some of these vets and put some pressure on Bradley to do something other than this crap.

sethuel1 · August 15, 2008

You probably nailed the starting 11 and it is ****.

And I don't mean it is the ****, I'm mean it is ****.

Screw Eddie Lewis, screw Eddie Johnson, screw Brian Ching, screw Carlos Bocanegra and bring on Altidore, Cooper, Adu and Feilhaber.

This is the toughest game of our round and we are treating it like a second rate friendly (unless Cooper is called up in which case I take it all back).

I know the thinking is that this is going to be the toughest tie in the 2nd round of WCQ, on the road, hostile stadium, etc, so thus the veteran heavy lineup...

...but do you really think we'd drop points to fricking Guatemala if we had Parkhurst in the central defense, Wynne at least on the roster, Benny and Bradley in the middle, and Cooper and Davies or Dempsey up front?

Come on, Bradley. This ish is getting old fast.

There are 5 really questionable decisions on this roster:

No Kenny Cooper (Pending)
Hejduk over Wynne
No Benny Feilhaber
EJ
Eddie Lewis

I mean, I like Sascha getting the call, but Hejduk shouldn't be in the pool anymore except in case of a rash of injuries to the backs. He's not going to figure into 2010 (at least he'd better not). The Hejduk thing pisses me off more than anything else, really. Lewis, fine. He's actually still pretty decent. Benny? He should be there if he's fit because he's our only real linking mid. But if he needs to report to Derby or find another club, I kind of get it. EJ? F him, but at least he's still theoretically with some upside. Cooper will likely be the 18th guy, so that tempers EJ wearing the shirt. Jozy is hurt or whatever, so fine.

But Hejduk? And are we seriously going to only play Gooch and Boca in the central defense?

Heaven help us if one of them get hurt in the Hex. We haven't played anyone else in that spot yet.

If this were the Hex and not the goofy assed 2nd round...I'd almost wish for a shock loss just to kill off some of these vets and put some pressure on Bradley to do something other than this crap.

The really sad part is that my first reaction was to be happy that Dan Califf wasn't on the roster.

USSoccer · August 15, 2008

I watched about 88 minutes of the Gals v Chivas USA...

Beckham kind of sucks. I think I could have provided better services from the wing than he did. He looked like an MLS player. Which is pretty shite. His touch was bad, his crosses weren't on target, most of his through passes weren't weighted well and he beefed a scoring opportunity than an England captain shouldn't ever miss.

wolf stansson · August 15, 2008

I watched about 88 minutes of the Gals v Chivas USA...

Beckham kind of sucks. I think I could have provided better services from the wing than he did. He looked like an MLS player. Which is pretty shite. His touch was bad, his crosses weren't on target, most of his through passes weren't weighted well and he beefed a scoring opportunity than an England captain shouldn't ever miss.

Mailing it in all year. He plays in a few perfectly weighted balls a game, Landon gets on the end and then he just jogs around for the rest of the game. His free kicks suck, his crosses are lacking and he just doesn't look like he has it. I think all he cares about at this point is his celebrity and his England career. Playing for an outfit like the Galaxy, I can't really blame him.

Mo Edu set for a $5 mil move to Rangers.

Nice.

Feilhaber to AG Aarhus.

I'd rather Feilhaber come to New England in MLS than Denmark. At least I'd get to watch him more. The standard in Denmark isn't any better than MLS and Nicol and Mariner are the two best coaches this side of Dom Kinnear in the league.

http://www.agf.co.dk/grafik/content/5614.jpg

Gooch drawing lots of continental interest.

Speculation includes Lazio, Cologne, Lyon, Marseilles and Inter Milan. Some big teams there, I'll believe it when I see it.

Heath Pearce moving to either Eredivisie or another Bundesliga club.

shnsajax · August 15, 2008

Wow $5 million for Maurice Adu, thats a good take for him.

wolf stansson · August 15, 2008

Wow $5 million for Maurice Adu, thats a good take for him.

I like the SPL for him too. Three years or so at Rangers. Get some Champions League football next season, experience the Old Firm derby and play in a pressure filled environment in front of even better fans than Toronto.

August 15, 2008

Wow $5 million for Maurice Adu, thats a good take for him.
I like the SPL for him too. Three years or so at Rangers. Get some Champions League football next season, experience the Old Firm derby and play in a pressure filled environment in front of even better fans than Toronto.

Minor detail but Rangers won't be in the Champions League next year. They lost to FBK Kaunas in the qualifying stage.

wolf stansson · August 15, 2008

Wow $5 million for Maurice Adu, thats a good take for him.
I like the SPL for him too. Three years or so at Rangers. Get some Champions League football next season, experience the Old Firm derby and play in a pressure filled environment in front of even better fans than Toronto.

Minor detail but Rangers won't be in the Champions League next year. They lost to FBK Kaunas in the qualifying stage.

No they won't be in the Champions League this year. SPL and CL already started. One can only assume they'll be in the top 2 with Celtic and qualify for CL action at the end of the season.

August 15, 2008

Wow $5 million for Maurice Adu, thats a good take for him.
I like the SPL for him too. Three years or so at Rangers. Get some Champions League football next season, experience the Old Firm derby and play in a pressure filled environment in front of even better fans than Toronto.

Minor detail but Rangers won't be in the Champions League next year. They lost to FBK Kaunas in the qualifying stage.
No they won't be in the Champions League this year. SPL and CL already started. One can only assume they'll be in the top 2 with Celtic and qualify for CL action at the end of the season.

They didn't qualify this year so it's no guarantee that they'll be in there for the 09/10 season. They should be there, but then again they should have qualified this year as well.

I should say that I don't consider the qualifying stages being in the Champions League. If you make the first phase, then you're in the Champions League. There's a reason they call the round Rangers lost in a qualifying round.

wolf stansson · August 15, 2008

They didn't qualify this year so it's no guarantee that they'll be in there for the 09/10 season. They should be there, but then again they should have qualified this year as well.

I should say that I don't consider the qualifying stages being in the Champions League. If you make the first phase, then you're in the Champions League. There's a reason they call the round Rangers lost in a qualifying round.

You said they aren't in next season and that you don't consider it CL football until the first phase. Well, the draw for the group stage is in about two weeks, aka this year. So like I said, they are out this year because of the loss to FBK Kaunus that you cited as the reason they aren't in "next year."

We have no way of knowing whether they will be in or out next year, but given that a non-Old Firm team has cracked the top 2 only once in the last 10 years I think it's pretty safe to assume they'll qualify for at least the qualifying stage and that they won't get massively upset like they did this year.

wolf stansson · August 15, 2008

Also, according to world soccer daily, Bruce Arena is the new head Beckham cheerleader/coach of the Galaxy.

August 15, 2008

They didn't qualify this year so it's no guarantee that they'll be in there for the 09/10 season. They should be there, but then again they should have qualified this year as well.

I should say that I don't consider the qualifying stages being in the Champions League. If you make the first phase, then you're in the Champions League. There's a reason they call the round Rangers lost in a qualifying round.

You said they aren't in next season and that you don't consider it CL football until the first phase. Well, the draw for the group stage is in about two weeks, aka this year. So like I said, they are out this year because of the loss to FBK Kaunus that you cited as the reason they aren't in "next year."

We have no way of knowing whether they will be in or out next year, but given that a non-Old Firm team has cracked the top 2 only once in the last 10 years I think it's pretty safe to assume they'll qualify for at least the qualifying stage and that they won't get massively upset like they did this year.

Whatever. Next year, this year; we're just arguing semantics at this point.

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