pagan is truly awful defensively

[abuck1220]

i just saw the replay of mench's double today...pagan looks like todd hundley out there. for someone so athletic and fast he has no defensive ability. and his instincts appear to be pretty terrible as well...i've never seen a LF play so deep, and he gets really bad jumps and takes horrible angles. what's his deal?

[biittner77]

i just saw the replay of mench's double today...pagan looks like todd hundley out there. for someone so athletic and fast he has no defensive ability. and his instincts appear to be pretty terrible as well...i've never seen a LF play so deep, and he gets really bad jumps and takes horrible angles. what's his deal?

 

He's been working with Juan Pierre?

[SouthSideRyan]

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I was just reading on BTF the other day about how high he rates in one of the defensive metrics. I hate defensive metrics.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I was just reading on BTF the other day about how high he rates in one of the defensive metrics. I hate defensive metrics.

 

Where was that?

 

 

Pagan has played 20 full games worth of defense this year.

[C.C.]

Defense matters very little....Right?

[RynoRules]

I meant to post this yesterday: was reading the Trib on my way to work yesterday and noted that Pagan is at .300 / .340. Is it possible this kid can hit?

[badgercub]

I was at the game yesterday, all of our outfielders are bad. Pagan misplaying balls, Pierre's girly arm, and Jones' inability to hit a cutoff man. It was really quite sad Jones twice missed the cutoff man allowing runners to move up on the bases, how is this tolerated? Be a man(ager) Dusty and start holding people accountable, if they aren't going to play the game the right way, find a spot for them on the bench.

[bobbyd20]

I was at the game yesterday, all of our outfielders are bad. Pagan misplaying balls, Pierre's girly arm, and Jones' inability to hit a cutoff man. It was really quite sad Jones twice missed the cutoff man allowing runners to move up on the bases, how is this tolerated? Be a man(ager) Dusty and start holding people accountable, if they aren't going to play the game the right way, find a spot for them on the bench.

 

 

It's about 3 and a half years too late for that.

[wastra]

Defense matters very little....Right?

 

No, having great defense vs. average defense matters very little if the hitting is roughly the same.

 

And Good hitting/bad defense >>>>>> Good Defense/bad hitting.

 

 

Defense is usually OVERRATED compared to offense, but it's not irrelevant.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

FWIW, in McKamey's prospect book he rates Pagan's defense about average, with this comment:

 

"Tracks-down flyballs in all directions, though his arm comes up a bit short in CF".

[biittner77]

FWIW, in McKamey's prospect book he rates Pagan's defense about average, with this comment:

 

"Tracks-down flyballs in all directions, though his arm comes up a bit short in CF".

 

And the comparisons to Pierre grow even closer.

[baseball7897]

Pagan plays the deepest LF I have ever seen when he is in Wrigley. If I was in LF, I would be playing shallow. If the ball is hit over your head, its either a double or HR.

[biittner77]

Pagan plays the deepest LF I have ever seen when he is in Wrigley. If I was in LF, I would be playing shallow. If the ball is hit over your head, its either a double or HR.

 

I would say that would true in most ballparks unless they have some signature quirk such as Fenway or Jacobs Field.

[Caryatid]

Its kinda hard to make a blanket statement about how awful a player is based on a single play. I don't see him take horrible angles as some others seem to, but that's all a point-of-view thing. I would say he's an average OF, but nothing special.

[abuck1220]

Its kinda hard to make a blanket statement about how awful a player is based on a single play. I don't see him take horrible angles as some others seem to, but that's all a point-of-view thing. I would say he's an average OF, but nothing special.

 

i'm not basing it on a single play, though that play certainly had an effect. he plays waaay too deep in LF and just looks like he gets terrible jumps.

[Caryatid]

Its kinda hard to make a blanket statement about how awful a player is based on a single play. I don't see him take horrible angles as some others seem to, but that's all a point-of-view thing. I would say he's an average OF, but nothing special.

 

i'm not basing it on a single play, though that play certainly had an effect. he plays waaay too deep in LF and just looks like he gets terrible jumps.

 

Yeah, its certainly possible-I don't quite see it from what I've watched, but defense is so subjective, I could certainly be wrong.

[SouthSideRyan]

Sorry, can't find the thread on BTF. A poster having Angel Pagan in his username makes it near impossible to navigate their search function.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sorry, can't find the thread on BTF. A poster having Angel Pagan in his username makes it near impossible to navigate their search function.

 

Thanks anyway.

[Rob]

According the the Davenport Translations on BP, he's been worth 3 runs over average so far this year. Then again, it's a pretty small sample size for use with fielding metrics...