[abuck1220]

geez...nobody's bitching about it. someone mentioned that they liked izturis' defense, and i mentioned that he looked pretty bad yesterday. i didn't intend for it to spawn a new thread. he looked bad yesterday, i don't know how anyone can say any different. there was no comment about his overall defensive ability. end of story.

 

If it wasn't for negative comments some of the people on here would be the silent type.

 

and if it weren't for negative comments about the negative comments some other people would be the silent type.

[goonys evil twin]

No it wasn't...it was hard hit and took a funny hop up to his chest right at the end. He played it correctly, got in front and played it off his chest and fired a bullet to first.

 

That was NOT a routine ground ball.

 

It was for a defensive superstar who drives in runs with his glove.

[bring stone back]

No it wasn't...it was hard hit and took a funny hop up to his chest right at the end. He played it correctly, got in front and played it off his chest and fired a bullet to first.

 

That was NOT a routine ground ball.

 

It was for a defensive superstar who drives in runs with his glove.

 

Point taken...we can go round and round on this but won't. IF we can get a Loretta type at 2B I think this Izturis thing just might work out pretty well.

 

There aren't many ground balls at Wrigley that are routine....see Pagan's double late in the game. There are funny hops out there...he's got the talent and the arm to stick with it and still make an out on a fast runner.

[goonys evil twin]

No it wasn't...it was hard hit and took a funny hop up to his chest right at the end. He played it correctly, got in front and played it off his chest and fired a bullet to first.

 

That was NOT a routine ground ball.

 

It was for a defensive superstar who drives in runs with his glove.

 

Point taken...we can go round and round on this but won't. IF we can get a Loretta type at 2B I think this Izturis thing just might work out pretty well.

 

There aren't many ground balls at Wrigley that are routine....see Pagan's double late in the game. There are funny hops out there...he's got the talent and the arm to stick with it and still make an out on a fast runner.

 

I don't deny that he's defensively talented. The point of all of this is that he's not a flawless gem of a defender who makes up for his lack of offense with a great glove. He's more than likely better than most with his glove, but that's not good enough for a guy making what he makes in a lineup as bad as the Cubs.

[C.C.]

No it wasn't...it was hard hit and took a funny hop up to his chest right at the end. He played it correctly, got in front and played it off his chest and fired a bullet to first.

 

That was NOT a routine ground ball.

 

It was for a defensive superstar who drives in runs with his glove.

 

Point taken...we can go round and round on this but won't. IF we can get a Loretta type at 2B I think this Izturis thing just might work out pretty well.

 

There aren't many ground balls at Wrigley that are routine....see Pagan's double late in the game. There are funny hops out there...he's got the talent and the arm to stick with it and still make an out on a fast runner.

 

I don't deny that he's defensively talented. The point of all of this is that he's not a flawless gem of a defender who makes up for his lack of offense with a great glove. He's more than likely better than most with his glove, but that's not good enough for a guy making what he makes in a lineup as bad as the Cubs.

 

I don't think anyone said he was flawless? I mean even the best players have bad days.

[3Dog]

goony, I wouldn't even waste any more time on the Cubs. You'd be better served following the A's or the Red Sox.

[CuseCubFan69]

What goes unmentioned was he was 2/4 at the plate with a RBI.

 

.238/.273/.286

 

Are those really his numbers or Ohio States top football players SAT scores?

[C.C.]

geez...nobody's bitching about it. someone mentioned that they liked izturis' defense, and i mentioned that he looked pretty bad yesterday. i didn't intend for it to spawn a new thread. he looked bad yesterday, i don't know how anyone can say any different. there was no comment about his overall defensive ability. end of story.

 

If it wasn't for negative comments some of the people on here would be the silent type.

 

and if it weren't for negative comments about the negative comments some other people would be the silent type.

 

I actually started this by making a positive post about the Cubs play as of late, and it turned out to be a negative post about Izturis. Go figure...

[goonys evil twin]

What goes unmentioned was he was 2/4 at the plate with a RBI.

 

.238/.273/.286

 

Are those really his numbers or Ohio States top football players SAT scores?

 

It's what espn.com lists his numbers as a Cub, but sometimes they are late to include the previous days' stats into the current total.

 

In fact, now it says .250/.298/.343 when you dig a little deeper.

[C.C.]

What goes unmentioned was he was 2/4 at the plate with a RBI.

 

.238/.273/.286

 

Are those really his numbers or Ohio States top football players SAT scores?

 

It's what espn.com lists his numbers as a Cub, but sometimes they are late to include the previous days' stats into the current total.

 

In fact, now it says .250/.298/.343 when you dig a little deeper.

 

Ya see, things are already looking up for Izturis! :wink:

[CuseCubFan69]

What goes unmentioned was he was 2/4 at the plate with a RBI.

 

.238/.273/.286

 

Are those really his numbers or Ohio States top football players SAT scores?

 

It's what espn.com lists his numbers as a Cub, but sometimes they are late to include the previous days' stats into the current total.

 

In fact, now it says .250/.298/.343 when you dig a little deeper.

 

Ya see, things are already looking up for Izturis! :wink:

 

But can he bunt like Neifi? That's what will make him go from a below average hitter to the Perez type of career.

 

I could live with a 48 Isod but with this lineup Hendry has to beef up the OF quite a bit.

[hawkeyecub]

No it wasn't...it was hard hit and took a funny hop up to his chest right at the end. He played it correctly, got in front and played it off his chest and fired a bullet to first.

 

That was NOT a routine ground ball.

 

It was for a defensive superstar who drives in runs with his glove.

 

Point taken...we can go round and round on this but won't. IF we can get a Loretta type at 2B I think this Izturis thing just might work out pretty well.

 

There aren't many ground balls at Wrigley that are routine....see Pagan's double late in the game. There are funny hops out there...he's got the talent and the arm to stick with it and still make an out on a fast runner.

 

I don't deny that he's defensively talented. The point of all of this is that he's not a flawless gem of a defender who makes up for his lack of offense with a great glove. He's more than likely better than most with his glove, but that's not good enough for a guy making what he makes in a lineup as bad as the Cubs.

 

So which is it? Is he better than most or is he nothing more than your typical major league SS. You've said both in this thread. When the transaction was made you said you didn't think he was above average or anything special defensively.

 

I will definitely not say that his defense makes up for his weak bat. But I think he is definitely one of the best defensive shortstops in the game based on his range, arm, footwork and instincts. Maybe that isn't proven in the stats, but I really don't put much stock in defensive statistics. Defense is one aspect of the game where scouting reports are probably the best measure in my opinion.

[goonys evil twin]

So which is it? Is he better than most or is he nothing more than your typical major league SS. You've said both in this thread. When the transaction was made you said you didn't think he was above average or anything special defensively.

 

I will definitely not say that his defense makes up for his weak bat. But I think he is definitely one of the best defensive shortstops in the game based on his range, arm, footwork and instincts. Maybe that isn't proven in the stats, but I really don't put much stock in defensive statistics. Defense is one aspect of the game where scouting reports are probably the best measure in my opinion.

 

I think he's probably above average for a starting shortstop, better than most other major league shortstops, but hardly anything special.

[fiver]

geez...nobody's bitching about it. someone mentioned that they liked izturis' defense, and i mentioned that he looked pretty bad yesterday. i didn't intend for it to spawn a new thread. he looked bad yesterday, i don't know how anyone can say any different. there was no comment about his overall defensive ability. end of story.

 

I was thinking the same yesterday. I do understand that Wrigley has a fairly dangerous bullpen setup, and he likely will get better at negotiating that area as he continues. However, Izturus should have made that play along the left field line. He subsequently bobbled the groundball, but I was impressed by the way he recovered.

 

abuck and goony aren't saying anything abnormal. He is touted as the best defensive shorstop in the league, and he supposedly helps win games with his defense. He hasn't shown that as a Cub.

[jjgman21]

geez...nobody's bitching about it. someone mentioned that they liked izturis' defense, and i mentioned that he looked pretty bad yesterday. i didn't intend for it to spawn a new thread. he looked bad yesterday, i don't know how anyone can say any different. there was no comment about his overall defensive ability. end of story.

 

I was thinking the same yesterday. I do understand that Wrigley has a fairly dangerous bullpen setup, and he likely will get better at negotiating that area as he continues. However, Izturus should have made that play along the left field line. He subsequently bobbled the groundball, but I was impressed by the way he recovered.

 

abuck and goony aren't saying anything abnormal. He is touted as the best defensive shorstop in the league, and he supposedly helps win games with his defense. He hasn't shown that as a Cub.

 

I was p'd at the play on the pop up, but Aram probably should've caught that ball too, and a similar ball was hit to the other side a batter or two later and Cedeno had trouble with it.

 

I think it had to do more with the wind and the sun than the bullpen set up.

 

Izturis' play up until now has been too small of a sample size to judge his performance as a Cub. the problem with Izturis remains the fact that Cedeno can provide equal performance for millions less while openning up a position where the Cubs can get some offense (second) if he is the shortstop, and that he was the worse possible option to go with in the Maddux trade.

 

people should stop praising every little thing he does right and damning every little thing he does wrong. he is what he is, and what he is is not right for this team. every bobble on defense and every good AB should not be the subject of a new thread. neither makes anyone any more right or wrong about his acquisition.