baker on murton/pagan

[abuck1220]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

[CuseCubFan69]

Why can't Baker sit Pierre once in a while and put Pagan in CF? I don't understand his extremely limited thought process.

[MustangMike]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

It scares me he's so quick to praise pagan and put down Murton. When Pagan does well, its obvious and expected...however Murton is only doing well because where "we put him", like Murton has nothing to do with it. What's Baker's problem with Murton?

[CubColtPacer]

What's so wrong about what he said there? I can't find really anything wrong with either statement-what do you think is so wrong? He didn't claim that how he used Murton was the only reason Murton is doing better, and a case can be made that it certainly has helped him a little bit-and all Pagan has done since he came back has been to hit and hit some more, so I don't see any problem with giving him some of the playing time there.

[Sammy Sofa]

He's too patient? His style at the plate, for a player that young, almost completely flies in the face of what Dusty and co. spew forth.

[Hector Villanuevas Pants]

Dusty is not a good manager, but not everything he says is foolish. People here have fallen in love with Murton. He has had a very mediocre season. He has been given chances. He has shown very little power and does not appear ready to start in LF. Perhaps this is all Dusty's fault, but I don't think so. Not sure why everyone disses Pagan. He has tools, and he has played well so far. Better than Murton (although in fewer games). I'm not saying he will be a great player, but why not give him a chance. Perhaps they will both turn out to be OK.

[Jon]

Dusty should go back to patting himself on his back for barely playing Murton last year against righties and watching him struggle against them for most of this season.

 

But let's be honest. Murton can kiss those ABs against righties goodbye for a while. And that's exactly what this team needs...

 

Pagan puts together 65 ABs (although not so hot in the middle of those ABs) where he's hit for far more power than at any other time in his career (which includes a career .373 SLG and roughly a .400 SLG above A ball) and the only thing that the team can do constructively (prepare for next season) goes down the toilet. But I'm sure Dusty will give Murton a start or two in right just to get used to it. That's after several days off for him to learn the position, of course.

 

Here are Pagan's charts for the year so far from FanGraphs.com:

 

BA:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/2918_LF_daily_full_0_20060806.png

 

OBP:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/2918_LF_daily_full_1_20060806.png

 

SLG:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/2918_LF_daily_full_2_20060806.png

 

It's great that Pagan is doing well right now, but at best he can shoot for being a 4th outfielder down the line. Giving him much playing time right now isn't going to be that helpful for the club unless it's in center.

[Sammy Sofa]

The problem, in my opinion, is that both Pagan and Murton are showing themselves to be very good 4th outfielders...I really don't think either are the annswer for the Cubs when it comes to a starting LFer at this point.

[CubColtPacer]

Jon, one question about the graphs-why do all the lines go down while Pagan is hurt? In the couple months that he was hurt, the line is sloping down-why would the graph do that? It seems like it would be simple enough for the graph to draw the straight line, but it doesn't. I just thought that was very interesting.

[Banedon]

Jon, one question about the graphs-why do all the lines go down while Pagan is hurt? In the couple months that he was hurt, the line is sloping down-why would the graph do that? It seems like it would be simple enough for the graph to draw the straight line, but it doesn't. I just thought that was very interesting.

 

Strictly a guess on my part, but I'm guessing each measurement is taken after a certain number of AB's or games played or something. He probably didn't hit in the first few AB's off the DL, and so that measurement would decline.

 

Complete speculation though.

[Jon]

Jon, one question about the graphs-why do all the lines go down while Pagan is hurt? In the couple months that he was hurt, the line is sloping down-why would the graph do that? It seems like it would be simple enough for the graph to draw the straight line, but it doesn't. I just thought that was very interesting.

 

Strictly a guess on my part, but I'm guessing each measurement is taken after a certain number of AB's or games played or something. He probably didn't hit in the first few AB's off the DL, and so that measurement would decline.

 

Complete speculation though.

Yeah. He went 0-1 in his first game back and because he's only had so many ABs this season, it caused a visible drop in his numbers.

 

The problem, in my opinion, is that both Pagan and Murton are showing themselves to be very good 4th outfielders...I really don't think either are the annswer for the Cubs when it comes to a starting LFer at this point.

But the Cubs are in a position where they need two answers for the corner outfield: a left-fielder and a platoon partner for Jones. Pagan is not going to be an answer to either of those, but Murton at the very least should be facing lefties in right field next season (assuming Jones stays put). But the question then becomes can he be a starting outfielder? That can only be decided by starting him every day and seeing what he can do against righties. He may not be an ideal choice as a starting left fielder, but he's the only possible choice on the roster right now and needs a chance to see if he can handle it.

[Laura]

If Dusty returns, he won't platoon Murton with Jones. I suspect he doesn't think Murton can handle RF defensively (and I highly doubt Dusty would ever experiment with Jones in CF).

[Jon]

If Dusty returns, he won't platoon Murton with Jones. I suspect he doesn't think Murton can handle RF defensively (and I highly doubt Dusty would ever experiment with Jones in CF).

Well, he'd probably also never consider a platoon for Jones, in which case we'd enjoy more of that .198/.214/.344 line he has against lefties this season or .201/.247/.370 of last season.

[goonys evil twin]

In 2006, the 25 year old Pagan has an 840 OPS spread out over 93 plate appearances. In 2005, the 23 year old Matt Murton had a 900 OPS spread out over 160 plate appearances. In the minors from 21-23, Murton put up a 831 OPS in roughly 1100 plate appearances, with a 1.45 K/BB ratio. Pagan was in the minors from 19-24, putting up a 717 OPS and 2.14 K/BB ratio.

 

Murton is young and better than Pagan.

[bring stone back]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

[Laura]

If Dusty returns, he won't platoon Murton with Jones. I suspect he doesn't think Murton can handle RF defensively (and I highly doubt Dusty would ever experiment with Jones in CF).

Well, he'd probably also never consider a platoon for Jones, in which case we'd enjoy more of that .198/.214/.344 line he has against lefties this season or .201/.247/.370 of last season.

 

We have to see that he doesn't hit lefties with our own eyes before we can believe it.

 

Maybe we'll see JJones sit vs lefties more for the remainder of the season. Which would be nice.

[jjgman21]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

[CubColtPacer]

If Dusty returns, he won't platoon Murton with Jones. I suspect he doesn't think Murton can handle RF defensively (and I highly doubt Dusty would ever experiment with Jones in CF).

Well, he'd probably also never consider a platoon for Jones, in which case we'd enjoy more of that .198/.214/.344 line he has against lefties this season or .201/.247/.370 of last season.

 

We have to see that he doesn't hit lefties with our own eyes before we can believe it.

 

Maybe we'll see JJones sit vs lefties more for the remainder of the season. Which would be nice.

 

I doubt he will still sit against all lefties, but I think he will a lot more now. We will have situations like the other day with Murton in left and Pagan in right, which gives the added benefit of getting them both in the lineup and at-bats to add to their evaluations.

[goonys evil twin]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

 

That's what I'm reading, and it seems to have been a trend. Dusty talked about missing Pagan almost as much as he missed the rest of his horses. And he spoke of nothing but doubt about Murton last year when he was putting up better numbers than Pagan is now. I haven't heard him talk about protecting Pagan from the proverbial book that's bound to come out about him.

[C.C.]

''It's hard to be good all year, I don't care who you are,'' Baker said of Murton overcoming his slump. ''That one month he didn't drive in runs was his difficult period. But guys find their second wind. And it's how we use them. He doesn't get down, and other guys are playing well, too.''

 

don't pull anything patting yourself on the back, dusty.

 

''If anyone is finding himself, it's Pagan,'' Baker said. ''He found his stroke quickly after being out for so long [since April 16]. He's got almost as many homers as Murton [four to Murton's six] in fewer at-bats. It's easy to play both of them when they're both doing well. They're both bringing something to the table we can use.''

 

:pukel:

 

There is nothing wrong with this comment at all. He is giving Murton a compliment by saying he has struggled at times but found himself for a strong second half run while complimenting Pagan, too. Oh my...the humanity.

 

I realize most people here don't like Baker and want him gone, but don't try to find reasons to criticize unfairly.

 

I agree that sometimes the piling on of Baker is a little over the top. In this case, I'm not so sure it isn't justified though. I would like to know the context of the comments, but it sure seems what he is saying here is 'Murton is coming around thanks to the way we use him, Pagan on the other hand is the truly talented one.'

 

That's what I'm reading, and it seems to have been a trend. Dusty talked about missing Pagan almost as much as he missed the rest of his horses. And he spoke of nothing but doubt about Murton last year when he was putting up better numbers than Pagan is now. I haven't heard him talk about protecting Pagan from the proverbial book that's bound to come out about him.

 

That is a pretty crappy Baker comment? It's really uncalled for...

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

[Banedon]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

 

That comment may cause me to revoke my backing of Brenly as a possible managerial candidate.

[ConstableRabbit]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

 

That comment may cause me to revoke my backing of Brenly as a possible managerial candidate.

 

Where have you been all year and during Brenly's managerial career?

 

Those 5 original roast beef sandwiches for only $5.99 have gone to your head!

[goonys evil twin]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

 

That comment may cause me to revoke my backing of Brenly as a possible managerial candidate.

 

Where have you been all year and during Brenly's managerial career?

 

Those 5 original roast beef sandwiches for only $5.99 have gone to your head!

 

Yeah, this is the first sign for you that he might not be the guy?

[Banedon]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but after Pagan beat out an infield grounder, Bob Brenly exclaimed "Speed never takes an off day."

 

Awesome.

 

That comment may cause me to revoke my backing of Brenly as a possible managerial candidate.

 

Where have you been all year and during Brenly's managerial career?

 

Those 5 original roast beef sandwiches for only $5.99 have gone to your head!

 

There are a lot of things that Brenly does criticize this team for, and does see that I like. And Brenly isn't/wasn't my first choice. But in the middle of the season, if they were going to replace Baker, I do think Brenly would've been an upgrade, at least as an interim manager.