To fix the Cubs...

[Sammy Sofa]

OK, THANKS.

[Soriano12]

Pagan in CF is an interesting proposition...however I would need a larger

sample size than his season's current stats.

 

He needs to play everyday IMO, but so does Murton.

 

Its a prediciment....because no way can you pay Pierre more than 7-8 mill a season.

[goonys evil twin]

Murton has shown some impressive discipline, but he doesn't have the power to be a starting corner outfielder. Yeah, I know we're supposed to wait for it, but how long? When would he officially be declared a 4th outfielder or good platoon partner?

 

This attitude reminds me a lot of the questions about Hill, and every other prospect that isn't great in his first year. How long? Well, a long time actually. At least until he's 26, when he'll be reaching his peak. His power is likely to keep improving after that age, even if his overall game declines.

 

Here's a perfectly realistic potential developmental line for Murton:

 

Current - .295/.362/.417

2006 final - .300/.365/.425 (24 years old)

2007 final - .305/.375/.440 (25 years old)

2008 final - .310/.380/.460 (26 years old)

 

That is a gradual improvement, and entirely possible. Do I predict it'll happen that way? No. He might take a big jump next year and have a setback in 2008. Or he might stay stagnant in 2007 and make a huge leap in 2008. I have no idea.

 

But that 2008 season, at age 26, is pretty darn good, and he'll still be pretty affordable. If that happens, I would expect similar production for the next 3 years, and by that time the Cubs will have spent maybe $16-20m on all his pre free agency seasons. That's nowhere near Lee or Ramirez, or the elite outfielders in baseball. But it's pretty solid production for a very reasonable cost, allowing you to spend much more on other positions, to make up for any SLG deficiency.

[Sammy Sofa]

Pagan in CF would be fine if Hendry wised up and platooned Murton & Jacque in RF next year and went out and got a serious masher for LF AND someone who can hit either at 2nd or SS. Anything else and we'll be watching a repeat of 2006 again.

[Sammy Sofa]

Murton has shown some impressive discipline, but he doesn't have the power to be a starting corner outfielder. Yeah, I know we're supposed to wait for it, but how long? When would he officially be declared a 4th outfielder or good platoon partner?

 

This attitude reminds me a lot of the questions about Hill, and every other prospect that isn't great in his first year. How long? Well, a long time actually. At least until he's 26, when he'll be reaching his peak. His power is likely to keep improving after that age, even if his overall game declines.

 

Here's a perfectly realistic potential developmental line for Murton:

 

Current - .295/.362/.417

2006 final - .300/.365/.425 (24 years old)

2007 final - .305/.375/.440 (25 years old)

2008 final - .310/.380/.460 (26 years old)

 

That is a gradual improvement, and entirely possible. Do I predict it'll happen that way? No. He might take a big jump next year and have a setback in 2008. Or he might stay stagnant in 2007 and make a huge leap in 2008. I have no idea.

 

But that 2008 season, at age 26, is pretty darn good, and he'll still be pretty affordable. If that happens, I would expect similar production for the next 3 years, and by that time the Cubs will have spent maybe $16-20m on all his pre free agency seasons. That's nowhere near Lee or Ramirez, or the elite outfielders in baseball. But it's pretty solid production for a very reasonable cost, allowing you to spend much more on other positions, to make up for any SLG deficiency.

 

In an ideal world, that's fantastic. But as it stands, he's taking up space in the one OF spot that myopic Hendry wants/needs to fill with an impact bat NOW. We all know Jacque ain't going anywhere.

 

Allow me to clarify...I think Murton is a decent player. On a better team, it would be easy to fit him in and give him his playing time. Unless the Cubs are going rookie-heavy the next 1-2 seasons, they aren't that team. I have nothing against Murton and I don't think he's "bad" or that "he sucks" or anything against those lines...I just think as this particular team stands right now and looking ahead to next year, his development doesn't fit and doesn't help. THAT sucks, but that's sadly who it is and what we're reduced to.

Edited August 10, 2006 by Sammy Sofa

[Soriano12]

Pagan in CF would be fine if Hendry wised up and platooned Murton & Jacque in RF next year and went out and got a serious masher for LF AND someone who can hit either at 2nd or SS. Anything else and we'll be watching a repeat of 2006 again.

 

I think there is 2 options for a masher LF

 

Carlos Lee - who is a borderline DH

 

Alphonso Soriono - will he be worth the $$ and will be be willing to play LF

again

[Sammy Sofa]

Pagan in CF would be fine if Hendry wised up and platooned Murton & Jacque in RF next year and went out and got a serious masher for LF AND someone who can hit either at 2nd or SS. Anything else and we'll be watching a repeat of 2006 again.

 

I think there is 2 options for a masher LF

 

Carlos Lee - who is a borderline DH

 

Alphonso Soriono - will he be worth the $$ and will be be willing to play LF

again

 

I'd prefer having Lee in LF and Soriano back at 2nd. Yeah, I know he makes Walker look like a defensive god, but then maybe Izturis has some value. His defense, combined with Lee doing what he does at 1st and Aramis' improving D could hopefully make up for any problems Soriano would have, and the other three big infield backs make up for Cesar not getting much done with the stick.

[goonys evil twin]

In an ideal world, that's fantastic. But as it stands, he's taking up space in the one OF spot that myopic Hendry wants/needs to fill with an impact bat NOW. We all know Jacque ain't going anywhere.

 

The problem is Hendry isn't going to replace Murton with Abreu. He's going to find somebody who is similar to Jacque Jones, with maybe a touch more power. The guy will probably be an OBP decline from Murton, whoever he is. And while he'll have more power, it won't be worth the money.

[Sammy Sofa]

In an ideal world, that's fantastic. But as it stands, he's taking up space in the one OF spot that myopic Hendry wants/needs to fill with an impact bat NOW. We all know Jacque ain't going anywhere.

 

The problem is Hendry isn't going to replace Murton with Abreu. He's going to find somebody who is similar to Jacque Jones, with maybe a touch more power. The guy will probably be an OBP decline from Murton, whoever he is. And while he'll have more power, it won't be worth the money.

 

True. But at the same time, I still feel Murton is not the answer as a starting corner outfielder for the Cubs if we want to see noticeable change in the next year or two. It's a craptacular catch-22 of Hendry's design.

[CubColtPacer]

Pagan in CF would be fine if Hendry wised up and platooned Murton & Jacque in RF next year and went out and got a serious masher for LF AND someone who can hit either at 2nd or SS. Anything else and we'll be watching a repeat of 2006 again.

 

I think there is 2 options for a masher LF

 

Carlos Lee - who is a borderline DH

 

Alphonso Soriono - will he be worth the $$ and will be be willing to play LF

again

 

I'd prefer having Lee in LF and Soriano back at 2nd. Yeah, I know he makes Walker look like a defensive god, but then maybe Izturis has some value. His defense, combined with Lee doing what he does at 1st and Aramis' improving D could hopefully make up for any problems Soriano would have, and the other three big infield backs make up for Cesar not getting much done with the stick.

 

Exactly..a player like Soriano at 2nd actually maximizes the value Izturis has with his great range. I think Izturis showed his range quite well last night (with the ball on the other side of 2nd, and then the ball deep in the hole), and Soriano can really be hidden at 2nd with two great defenders between him in Lee and Izturis. Izturis's bat could then be hidden because look at the rest of the infield including catcher-we'd still have I think the best hitting infield in the majors (Lee, Barrett, Soriano, Ramirez, Izturis). At least we'd be right up there-then we would just have to figure out what we wanted to do with our outfield, but we would only have to make a moderate upgrade there rather than a major one.

[goonys evil twin]

In an ideal world, that's fantastic. But as it stands, he's taking up space in the one OF spot that myopic Hendry wants/needs to fill with an impact bat NOW. We all know Jacque ain't going anywhere.

 

The problem is Hendry isn't going to replace Murton with Abreu. He's going to find somebody who is similar to Jacque Jones, with maybe a touch more power. The guy will probably be an OBP decline from Murton, whoever he is. And while he'll have more power, it won't be worth the money.

 

True. But at the same time, I still feel Murton is not the answer as a starting corner outfielder for the Cubs if we want to see noticeable change in the next year or two. It's a craptacular catch-22 of Hendry's design.

 

If they get an Abreu, I'm all for replacing Murton. It's just not going to happen.

[Soriano12]

If we offer the chance to play 2B we also might have a chance to sign him

for a little less than maybe a team that wants him strictly as a LF.

[Sammy Sofa]

Pagan in CF would be fine if Hendry wised up and platooned Murton & Jacque in RF next year and went out and got a serious masher for LF AND someone who can hit either at 2nd or SS. Anything else and we'll be watching a repeat of 2006 again.

 

I think there is 2 options for a masher LF

 

Carlos Lee - who is a borderline DH

 

Alphonso Soriono - will he be worth the $$ and will be be willing to play LF

again

 

I'd prefer having Lee in LF and Soriano back at 2nd. Yeah, I know he makes Walker look like a defensive god, but then maybe Izturis has some value. His defense, combined with Lee doing what he does at 1st and Aramis' improving D could hopefully make up for any problems Soriano would have, and the other three big infield backs make up for Cesar not getting much done with the stick.

 

Exactly..a player like Soriano at 2nd actually maximizes the value Izturis has with his great range. I think Izturis showed his range quite well last night (with the ball on the other side of 2nd, and then the ball deep in the hole), and Soriano can really be hidden at 2nd with two great defenders between him in Lee and Izturis. Izturis's bat could then be hidden because look at the rest of the infield including catcher-we'd still have I think the best hitting infield in the majors (Lee, Barrett, Soriano, Ramirez, Izturis). At least we'd be right up there-then we would just have to figure out what we wanted to do with our outfield, but we would only have to make a moderate upgrade there rather than a major one.

 

Couldn't be more right. In a perfect world, this happens and the Cubs snag a guy like Zito or Schmidt, Neifi's gone, Cedeno is the chief backup for 2nd & SS and Murton is platooned with Jacque and is the chief backup for LF as well. Of course, I have a feeling NONE of that will happen.

[gflore34]

I'm believer in OBP leading to offensive consistency but, when one looks at the year the Tigers are having with lineups featuring 1,2,3 of Polanco (.330 OBP), Monroe (.305 OBP) and Rodriguez (.330) it underscores the importance of pitching. Their staff far away leads all of Baseball; such a performance covers up the Tigers' offensive decencies, leading to another way to fix the Cubs. Hendry going out and pretty together a real solid starting staff by doing so, he won't be banking on it having one of those magical years but, at least he'll increase the chances of it happening.

[soapy]

Anyone have FA list handy?

 

I doubt the Cubs have enough money to bring take on A. Jones' salary in a trade and add Soriano at 2B while also adding a pitcher, but that would be an idea. I haven't really noticed what FA pitchers will be out there other then Schmidt and Zito though. Probably a pretty uninspiring list.

 

Soriano 2B (yeah, not ideal, but it would work)

Murton LF (or switch him with Soriano)

Lee 1B

A. Jones CF

Ramirez 3B

Barrett C

J. Jones/Restovich RF

Izturis SS

 

Like I said, even if Hendry could pull that off, it likely leaves the Cubs lacking in the pitching department (not to mention some young pitching has likely been traded to get A. Jones).

[goonys evil twin]

Anyone have FA list handy?

 

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2000/04/possible-free-agents.html

[BigbadB]

I'm believer in OBP leading to offensive consistency but, when one looks at the year the Tigers are having with lineups featuring 1,2,3 of Polanco (.330 OBP), Monroe (.305 OBP) and Rodriguez (.330) it underscores the importance of pitching. Their staff far away leads all of Baseball; such a performance covers up the Tigers' offensive decencies, leading to another way to fix the Cubs. Hendry going out and pretty together a real solid starting staff by doing so, he won't be banking on it having one of those magical years but, at least he'll increase the chances of it happening.

 

The Cubs could only wish they had Detroit's offensive deficiencies.

 

Detroit is 7th in run production. Cubs are 30th.

[gflore34]

I'm believer in OBP leading to offensive consistency but, when one looks at the year the Tigers are having with lineups featuring 1,2,3 of Polanco (.330 OBP), Monroe (.305 OBP) and Rodriguez (.330) it underscores the importance of pitching. Their staff far away leads all of Baseball; such a performance covers up the Tigers' offensive decencies, leading to another way to fix the Cubs. Hendry going out and pretty together a real solid starting staff by doing so, he won't be banking on it having one of those magical years but, at least he'll increase the chances of it happening.

 

The Cubs could only wish they had Detroit's offensive deficiencies.

 

Detroit is 7th in run production. Cubs are 30th.

 

Give them the Cubs' staff, do you believe they'd be .500 or better?

[Magnetic Curses]

darin erstad seems to be a hendry-type player, pencil him in in CF if pierre doesn't re-sign. pedro feliz at 3rd if aram walks is a probability.

 

that's all i can think of if hendry continues his children's crusade.

[BigbadB]

I'm believer in OBP leading to offensive consistency but, when one looks at the year the Tigers are having with lineups featuring 1,2,3 of Polanco (.330 OBP), Monroe (.305 OBP) and Rodriguez (.330) it underscores the importance of pitching. Their staff far away leads all of Baseball; such a performance covers up the Tigers' offensive decencies, leading to another way to fix the Cubs. Hendry going out and pretty together a real solid starting staff by doing so, he won't be banking on it having one of those magical years but, at least he'll increase the chances of it happening.

 

The Cubs could only wish they had Detroit's offensive deficiencies.

 

Detroit is 7th in run production. Cubs are 30th.

 

Give them the Cubs' staff, do you believe they'd be .500 or better?

 

Yeah, I think they could be better than .500 with the Cubs pitching staff. Not much better than .500, but considering their record now with the pitching staff they have, I think it's conceivable.

 

At the same time, if the Cubs had a healthy rotation of Zambrano, Wood, Prior, Maddux, Marshall, I think the Cubs could be a .500 team with the lousy offense they possess. Unfortunately, I don't think they'd be much better than .500 because of the offense. I penciled the Cubs in at 4th place at the beginning of the season assuming the pitching staff would be healthy.

 

I'm not whining and crying about this team because of their current place in the standings. I was screaming about the poor offseason long before the season even started. The management team completely ignored the one biggest problem this team consistently suffers. OBP.

 

While the pitching failed them this year as well, it was assumed that the staff would be healthy and they would keep them in games and they would at least flirt with .500.

 

With over 40m to spend and lots of talent to trade, I was and still am furious at how poorly Hendry assembled the 2006 Cubs. He's getting exactly what he deserves.

 

Unfortunately, no one in the front office has a clue to see how poorly Hendry has done his job. Changes need to be made, and there is no one with the nads to just do it.

[ZFan38]

1. Let Pierre Walk

2. Move Jones to Center

3. Sign Catalnotto in LF

4 Sign Sheffield to play RF(assuming that the Yanks don't pick up his optin)

5. Sign at least one solid starting pitcher.

Sign Soriano(Don know if the Cus would be able to afford Sheff, Soriano and a pitcher but whatever)

 

Then have a lineup ofhis:

 

Soriano 2B

Catalanotto LF

Lee 1B

Shefield RF

Ramirez 3B

Barret C

Jones CF

Izturis SS

 

Rotation of:

Z

FA Pitcher

Prior

Marshall

Hill/Marmol

 

If Prior struggles have Marmol or Hill take his place.

[mul21]

I'm not sure what the point of getting Catalanotto is. Murton is only a liability due to lack of power if there isn't another power bat added, which you have happenning with Shef and Soriano. Keep Murton in there, save the cash to throw at other FA or a deadline acquisition assuming we're in it.

 

But I like the direction you're going. Certainly better than what Hendry will end up with.

[d_money]

The reality is, we have absolutely NO reliable starting pithing besides Big Z. We have such a long way to go when comparing us to the better teams (AL and NL).

 

Before we start talking about the OBP in the lineup - should we play Murton?, platooning w/ Jones?, signing/not signing pierre?, getting a power bat for LF, etc... We have Marmol/Marshall/Guzman/Hill as rotation guys next year. While they may be healthy - they are still very young and learning at the mlb level before they can become reliably effective (consistent command), which may take a few years for each.

 

Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching will make the difference. The rest will take care of itself (i know its easier said than done). I'm not even mentioning Prior. He's dead to me.

 

Re: FA pitchers...its gonna be a blood bath for signing Zito, Schmidt, Mulder, etal. Knowing we haven't paid the highest in the past, I'm resigned to the fact non of the top FA pitchers will be signed by the Cubs. 2007 will be another long year. I hate being so negative but I also hate pretending like we're a,player or 2 away from winning the WS.

[Sarcastic]

Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching will make the difference. The rest will take care of itself (i know its easier said than done). I'm not even mentioning Prior. He's dead to me.

 

Don't speak ill of Prior. You're on notice.[/Colbert]

[d_money]

Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching will make the difference. The rest will take care of itself (i know its easier said than done). I'm not even mentioning Prior. He's dead to me.

 

Don't speak ill of Prior. You're on notice.[/Colbert]

 

He's bringing nothing to the table. All while he claims he's healthy and everything is ok. We can't count on him for the rest of the year, so why should we for next? They should shut him down for the rest of this year, so he's ready for next. Otherwise, we're playing games with actually thinking we can count on him.