Cubs' Players Fighting Back

[dalgreen]

 

Vance, you may very well have a point and I don't disagree that Dusty needs to go. But-- Walker, Alou and Mercker are all grown men. Bob Brenly didn't make Walker's bad play on the field, just the same as Dusty doesn't make Walker talk too much.

 

I'm not condoning their actions, but trying to place them into context. Have you ever worked for a crappy boss that always passed the buck and blamed everyone but never took any responsibility himself? I have. And after awhile, very good employees become very bad employees. They begin to take advantage where they can and they begin to often take on the personality of their leader. I've seen it happen in two places where I've worked.

 

It doesn't surprise me that this team has taken on a me-first attitude when that is exactly what attitude it's leader has. Baker's statement about if the team struggles with the youth, would that be held against him shows what exactly the manager is thinking. When the players see that, it tells them that their leader believes in looking out for himself first and that they should as well.

 

Furthermore, what Walker is doing is only human. He believes he's going to be traded. Like others have mentioned in this thread, he heard the rumors of his being traded all offseason. He was the starter in 05, yet not once did he receive a public backing by his bosses this offseason. He's hearing the rumors again that he'll be traded. He's a FA who will be looking for a job and has received no indication that his current employer plans on retaining him. Why should he exhibit loyalty to said employer when they haven't done so to him?

 

As a teacher, I usually try to be a team player. In fact I score high in that regard on every evaluation I recieve. I rarely take days off because I know that it is difficult for my school to get quality substitutes and often my co-workers end up having to cover classes on what should be their break. Yet, if I heard rumblings when I reported in August that my principal tried to have me transferred over the summer, and then in February-March, I continue to hear from reliable sources that I'm not going to be re-hired for the next school year, suddenly I may not be as willing to cover someone's class or cover someone's duty, and I may just start taking my sick days at my leisure. Why would I do this? Human nature.

 

I have to disagree, Vance. We're talking about one player today and two players (Alou and Mercker) from 2004. I'd be inclined to agree with you if generally stand up guys like Lee, Pierre or Maddux started to act like this. And it infuriates me that in order for these types of incidents to happen they would have to go to the clubhouse rewind the tape AND turn up the volume. What's the point of turning up the volume to see a replay?

 

But it's not just one player today and two from 2004. Have we forgotten so soon Scott Williamson's comments? Or what about Ramirez throwing the pitching staff under the bus? Or Scott Eyre, who is normally a stand-up guy, saying the media questioning Dusty is part of the problem?

 

Just because Lee, Pierre, and Maddux haven't stooped to this level is no way proof that the attitude hasn't permeated the clubhouse. Some guys are more vocal than others. Walker, Alou, and Mercker were always vocal in good times and bad. It's not surprising that they were the ones who spoke out since they were always outspoken.

 

I'm not saying that they are all model citizens either, but wasn't Dusty's strenght his ability to keep a happy clubhouse and keep veteran players focused on the team concept? Well, it appears he sucks at it. Alou went bad under Dusty. Mercker, who in every interview from anyone who ever played with him says he's the best guy you can have in a clubhouse, had issues under Dusty. Williamson went as far to saying Dusty had "favorites." This kind of bickering and backbiting is a sign that there is a poor leader at the top. If being 20 games under 500 isn't enough to justify firing him, this should be. If Hendry is too dense to see it, then he should be fired as well.

 

You're right about the others, I was just talking about this love some players have for watching replays and then criticizing the announcers. You won't get any argument out of me regarding Baker's lack of leadership. Remember, I was calling for Baker's and Hendry's dismissal as early as last season, for I see them as "two peas in a pod". But I've always held player accountable when this type of stuff happens. Why can't they just do what Steve Carlton and George Hendrick did and just not speak to reporters?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

I never mentioned his skills. I mentioned his childish dig at Brenly and throwing Cedeno under the bus.

 

So how would you respond if a reporter publicly questioned your ability to do your job?

 

I don't know if you have had a chance to read the article yet, but I had no problem with his response until he brought up Bob Brenly's name, which had nothing to do with the original question. And, he was right there when he saw what happened to Cedeno, and if he didn't see it he was right there asking Cedeno if he was okay or what happened or whatever when Cedeno stayed on the ground after the play. I know Walker is one of your favorites, but I don't see how anyone can justify his bringing up Brenly's comment.

 

I read the article. It appears that Dusty threw Walker under the bus first. I'm not saying Walker handled it perfectly. I am saying that when you have a manager that acts as Dusty has, that players are going to start thinking of themselves, especially ones that already believe the organization is going to send them packing. Walker likely referred to Brenly because he knew the questioning began because Brenly said he "bobbled it" and Walker wanted to clarify that in his mind he didn't. Should Walker not have been so defensive? Probably, but once again his manager was blaming the loss on that play, and not so indirectly on Walker. When that crap happens, people are going to get defensive.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

You're right about the others, I was just talking about this love some players have for watching replays and then criticizing the announcers. You won't get any argument out of me regarding Baker's lack of leadership. Remember, I was calling for Baker's and Hendry's dismissal as early as last season, for I see them as "two peas in a pod". But I've always held player accountable when this type of stuff happens. Why can't they just do what Steve Carlton and George Hendrick did and just not speak to reporters?

 

In some circles around here, value is placed on being direct and speaking your mind. Bluntness and telling it like it is is of higher value than being meek and declining comment. You may not agree that is the case, but to some honesty means not hiding your feelings and thoughts. My dad is that way, and so I understand it. It's not a "political" idea in the least.

 

My guess is that Walker is like that. He's not going to decline comment. If someone asks him a question, he's going to make his feelings known, rightly or wrongly. That's just who he is. For some, being that direct isn't the best course of action. For others they appreciate his candor.

[dalgreen]

 

I never mentioned his skills. I mentioned his childish dig at Brenly and throwing Cedeno under the bus.

 

So how would you respond if a reporter publicly questioned your ability to do your job?

 

I don't know if you have had a chance to read the article yet, but I had no problem with his response until he brought up Bob Brenly's name, which had nothing to do with the original question. And, he was right there when he saw what happened to Cedeno, and if he didn't see it he was right there asking Cedeno if he was okay or what happened or whatever when Cedeno stayed on the ground after the play. I know Walker is one of your favorites, but I don't see how anyone can justify his bringing up Brenly's comment.

 

I read the article. It appears that Dusty threw Walker under the bus first. I'm not saying Walker handled it perfectly. I am saying that when you have a manager that acts as Dusty has, that players are going to start thinking of themselves, especially ones that already believe the organization is going to send them packing. Walker likely referred to Brenly because he knew the questioning began because Brenly said he "bobbled it" and Walker wanted to clarify that in his mind he didn't. Should Walker not have been so defensive? Probably, but once again his manager was blaming the loss on that play, and not so indirectly on Walker. When that crap happens, people are going to get defensive.

 

I think the questioning started when Baker referenced that play as being costly. I'm not sure the reporters even knew about Brenly's comments.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

I never mentioned his skills. I mentioned his childish dig at Brenly and throwing Cedeno under the bus.

 

So how would you respond if a reporter publicly questioned your ability to do your job?

 

I don't know if you have had a chance to read the article yet, but I had no problem with his response until he brought up Bob Brenly's name, which had nothing to do with the original question. And, he was right there when he saw what happened to Cedeno, and if he didn't see it he was right there asking Cedeno if he was okay or what happened or whatever when Cedeno stayed on the ground after the play. I know Walker is one of your favorites, but I don't see how anyone can justify his bringing up Brenly's comment.

 

I read the article. It appears that Dusty threw Walker under the bus first. I'm not saying Walker handled it perfectly. I am saying that when you have a manager that acts as Dusty has, that players are going to start thinking of themselves, especially ones that already believe the organization is going to send them packing. Walker likely referred to Brenly because he knew the questioning began because Brenly said he "bobbled it" and Walker wanted to clarify that in his mind he didn't. Should Walker not have been so defensive? Probably, but once again his manager was blaming the loss on that play, and not so indirectly on Walker. When that crap happens, people are going to get defensive.

 

I think the questioning started when Baker referenced that play as being costly. I'm not sure the reporters even knew about Brenly's comments.

 

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Actually in the article didn't Maddux say he was fine with whatever the Cubs wanted to do with him? I may be reading a bit to much into the statement with what is going on, but with everything else that is happening, I think he is saying I want out of this train wreck. That is a huge change from previous statements where Maddux has said he would like to finish his career here.

 

Winning breeds a good attitude. Losing breeds unhappiness. The leadership, or lack of, a team can make the first stronger or the later worse. In this case I believe it has gotten worse.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Actually in the article didn't Maddux say he was fine with whatever the Cubs wanted to do with him? I may be reading a bit to much into the statement with what is going on, but with everything else that is happening, I think he is saying I want out of this train wreck. That is a huge change from previous statements where Maddux has said he would like to finish his career here.

 

Winning breeds a good attitude. Losing breeds unhappiness. The leadership, or lack of, a team can make the first stronger or the later worse. In this case I believe it has gotten worse.

 

Yep. Maddux definitely appears to be tired of this crap. Frankly, so am I.

[dalgreen]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Actually in the article didn't Maddux say he was fine with whatever the Cubs wanted to do with him? I may be reading a bit to much into the statement with what is going on, but with everything else that is happening, I think he is saying I want out of this train wreck. That is a huge change from previous statements where Maddux has said he would like to finish his career here.

 

Winning breeds a good attitude. Losing breeds unhappiness. The leadership, or lack of, a team can make the first stronger or the later worse. In this case I believe it has gotten worse.

 

I saw the Maddux post game conference. He was being pressured with questions about it and was just trying to be very diplomatic.

 

He further said, "I've been in this game long enough and I don't believe what is on sportscenter." He was talking about trade rumors. Then he went on to try to explain and I'm paraphrasing here that people just need to let it play out and see what really happens. He then said I love Chicago , love the fans and this where I love to play.

 

Edit to add: He also said how great the organization has been to him, but oddly enough they don't print that in the paper.

Edited July 15, 2006 by RonnieWooWooSanto

[dalgreen]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

 

But don't we always complain about this organization's (including players)not holding themselves accountable? In my opinion, Walker was wrong for even bringing up Brenly's name. And, yes, had I been Walker I would've simply said I didn't bobble it and leave it at that. Our department is criticized a lot at my job. Do I "drop a dime" on my team to save me from criticism? Nope.

 

As I've said, I have no problem with Walker denying he bobbled the ball or had trouble getting the ball out of his glove, but there was no reason for him to complain about Brenly's call or for calling out Cedeno.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

 

But don't we always complain about this organization's (including players)not holding themselves accountable? In my opinion, Walker was wrong for even bringing up Brenly's name. And, yes, had I been Walker I would've simply said I didn't bobble it and leave it at that. Our department is criticized a lot at my job. Do I "drop a dime" on my team to save me from criticism? Nope.

 

As I've said, I have no problem with Walker denying he bobbled the ball or had trouble getting the ball out of his glove, but there was no reason for him to complain about Brenly's call or for calling out Cedeno.

 

But Walker is not only being called out, he's feeling pushed out the door. In his mind, he's really not "part" of the team anymore so looking out for the team is no longer in his mindset.

[dalgreen]

Actually in the article didn't Maddux say he was fine with whatever the Cubs wanted to do with him? I may be reading a bit to much into the statement with what is going on, but with everything else that is happening, I think he is saying I want out of this train wreck. That is a huge change from previous statements where Maddux has said he would like to finish his career here.

 

Winning breeds a good attitude. Losing breeds unhappiness. The leadership, or lack of, a team can make the first stronger or the later worse. In this case I believe it has gotten worse.

 

I saw the Maddux post game conference. He was being pressured with questions about it and was just trying to be very diplomatic.

 

He further said, "I've been in this game long enough and I don't believe what is on sportscenter." He was talking about trade rumors. Then he went on to try to explain and I'm paraphrasing here that people just need to let it play out and see what really happens. He then said I love Chicago , love the fans and this where I love to play.

 

Edit to add: He also said how great the organization has been to him, but oddly enough they don't print that in the paper.

 

Diplomatic=professional.

[dalgreen]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

 

But don't we always complain about this organization's (including players)not holding themselves accountable? In my opinion, Walker was wrong for even bringing up Brenly's name. And, yes, had I been Walker I would've simply said I didn't bobble it and leave it at that. Our department is criticized a lot at my job. Do I "drop a dime" on my team to save me from criticism? Nope.

 

As I've said, I have no problem with Walker denying he bobbled the ball or had trouble getting the ball out of his glove, but there was no reason for him to complain about Brenly's call or for calling out Cedeno.

 

But Walker is not only being called out, he's feeling pushed out the door. In his mind, he's really not "part" of the team anymore so looking out for the team is no longer in his mindset.

 

Do you personally know him? I'm asking seriously because it sounds like you do. And if he's feeling pushed out, then he should quit saying things like, "it's the business". What is your opinion on the lie he told when he said he never spoke to Baker during the offseason then a month later said he did talk to Baker?

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

 

I'm not a Baker apologist and I really like Walker. But, like you mentioned iin a previous post that Walker is the type of guy that appreciates and uses candor in what he says. Well, then he has to be able accept/appreciate Baker's candor in THIS particular situation. Watching the conference, I didn't feel he criticized Walker but rather was explaining the game situation as he saw it.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

Actually in the article didn't Maddux say he was fine with whatever the Cubs wanted to do with him? I may be reading a bit to much into the statement with what is going on, but with everything else that is happening, I think he is saying I want out of this train wreck. That is a huge change from previous statements where Maddux has said he would like to finish his career here.

 

Winning breeds a good attitude. Losing breeds unhappiness. The leadership, or lack of, a team can make the first stronger or the later worse. In this case I believe it has gotten worse.

 

I saw the Maddux post game conference. He was being pressured with questions about it and was just trying to be very diplomatic.

 

He further said, "I've been in this game long enough and I don't believe what is on sportscenter." He was talking about trade rumors. Then he went on to try to explain and I'm paraphrasing here that people just need to let it play out and see what really happens. He then said I love Chicago , love the fans and this where I love to play.

 

Edit to add: He also said how great the organization has been to him, but oddly enough they don't print that in the paper.

 

Thanks for that info. Thats what you get for living in the sticks in Tennessee. Bad news sells newspapers so no real suprise why they didnt print it.

[LuvChicagoSports]

And in Baker's comments, he indirectly places the blame on Walker. It's not surprising that Walker got a bit defensive.

 

Indirectly? His comments sounded direct to me. And that was another stupid thing Baker said/did.

 

And that should explain Walker's angst and defensiveness. I don't know what kind of work you do, but put yourself in Walker's position.

 

If my school had a poor performance score and in the newspaper my principal pointed the finger at me directly, I can almost guarantee you, I'm not going to humbly accept it. and yes, someone likely would be thrown under the bus when I'm asked about it.

 

But don't we always complain about this organization's (including players)not holding themselves accountable? In my opinion, Walker was wrong for even bringing up Brenly's name. And, yes, had I been Walker I would've simply said I didn't bobble it and leave it at that. Our department is criticized a lot at my job. Do I "drop a dime" on my team to save me from criticism? Nope.

 

As I've said, I have no problem with Walker denying he bobbled the ball or had trouble getting the ball out of his glove, but there was no reason for him to complain about Brenly's call or for calling out Cedeno.

 

But Walker is not only being called out, he's feeling pushed out the door. In his mind, he's really not "part" of the team anymore so looking out for the team is no longer in his mindset.

 

ok, so you're saying it would be ok if the principal of your school found out he/she was going to be let go at the end of the year, that it would be acceptable for him/her to then start throwing teachers and other administrative employees under the bus. It's absolutely wrong for Walker to place blame on Ronny. Walker is supposed to be the vet. Just say you didn't feel like you bobble the ball period. To bring up Brenly's call especially given the recent history with players and announcers on this team is not only childlike, but flat out ridiculous.

 

Also I want to say that professional sports is very unlike any other profession. You keep bringing up being a teacher, but you fail to look at the reality that athletes are expected to deal with the media on a constant basis. Teachers or other professionals may have a few dealings with huge media sources, but it is certainly not a daily thing. You can't talk about how a teacher or other professional talks about fellow employees at the lunch table and compare it to an athlete saying something about a teammate to a national media source.

[soccer10k]

I'm really getting sick and tired of this team being unable to take the abuse for sucking. Get mad all you want about stuff being thrown onto the field, because that is completely uncalled for. But if a fan is telling you you're bad, and you're 20 games under, you really don't have much of a choice but to shut up and take it. Because let's face it. If you're 20 under, you DO suck.

 

Fact: Jacque Jones in 2006 does not suck. In fact, far from it. He has probably been the most productive player on the Cubs this year. I realize it isn't saying much because the Cubs are pathetic but that shouldn't come into play too much when discussing the productivity of a player.

 

Fact: Jacque Jones is on pace to put up career highs in 2B, HR, RBI, BA, OPS, and near career highs in H, OBP, SLG. That is not a bad year. That surpasses what anybody should have expected out of Jacque.

 

Do I like his OBP? Of course not. But is it about as good as he is going to get? Yes. Stop blaming Jacque for this because this is how he is as a player. You don't like his productivity, blame Jim Hendry for signing him. But please stop criticizing a player who is on pace to put up a career high or near career high in virtually every major offensive category. It's stupid.

 

Go ahead and rip the team all you want. I'll join in with you on that one. But Jacque Jones is not the problem with the team. He is not the reason the Cubs are 21 games under .500 this year. It's ridiculous to rip Jacque Jones for anything this year.

 

At the beginning of the year when he was on his 0 for the first few games, a majority of the people on the site were jumping all over him as were the fans at Wrigley. But very few people brought up the fact that we were only a week or two into the season. I kept my mouth shut because I knew he would eventually start to hit. It was all a matter of time. Sure enough, he started to. Quietly, as I stated before, he has become one of the more productive hitters on this team this year. And yet people continue to bash him.

 

I'll admit that Jacque shouldn't bat against LHP but guess what, that isn't my call. It's Dusty's. Don't you think Jacque would love to only bat against RHP? I'm sure he would and his line against righties (.340/.373/.583/.955) backs that up. I believe that the issue with this team is less with the players and more with the actual coaching staff and management. Would this team be a playoff team with a different staff? Unlikely. But it is likely that, with the NL in a down year, the team would be a deadline deal or two (or a hot streak) away from being a serious contender to make the postseason.

 

In short, with all the unnecessary abuse Jacque has had to endure this year, I have absolutely no problem with him yelling at the fans. Now, if this was somebody else overreacting to the first time he was booed this year, that would pose a problem. But Jones has been getting bashed all year long and finally blew a fuse adn I don't blame him at all mainly because of his productivity this year. If Neifi Perez or Glendon Rusch started an argument with the fans for booing them, that would be stupid because those two are horrible players. But Jacque isn't a horrible player. And that's a fact.

 

EDIT: Sorry ndistops but this rant was not directed at you. I just quoted you because it was your post that got me thinking about a couple things and the rant went on from there. No offense was intended.

[soccer10k]

Why is Walker getting the blame when it was Cedeno who tried to throw the ball into Lake Michigan? Cedeno still had time to make a good throw and he airmailed it.

 

Agreed. It's not as if Cedeno is known for his unbelievably accurate throwing arm. Ronny has made numerous throwing errors on the year so who is to say that he didn't make another one here. I'm not trying to place the blame on Ronny but I'm just throwing it out there (no pun intended).

[soccer10k]

Vance, I agree with your whole stance in this thread.

[Larry Horse]

I also read that the Jones/fan argument entailed the fan saying Dusty should be fired and Jones calling him a "racist".

 

I have a sick feeling when Dusty is fired the whole race issue will be brought up.

[RynoRules]

Those of you defending Walker in this case must have serious man-love for the guy. Besides failing to take responsibility for his actions, he threw a rookie under the bus and became the latest Cub to pick a fight with the announcers. You can rationalize his reasons for doing so any way you want, but to me, its poor behavior and a bad example.

 

And Vance, you can't compare the professionalism and work environment of teachers with that of professional baseball players (you appeared to be doing so above). That's a true apples and oranges situation and an enormous logical leap.

 

EDIT: Just so you guys don't think I am piling on Todd, I thought Jones' reported behavior was as bad if not worse.

 

EDIT AGAIN: On second thought, if those guys were drunk and yelling racial slurs at Jones, I take the above "EDIT" back.

Edited July 15, 2006 by RynoRules

[RynoRules]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060714cubsgamer,1,3619652.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

 

Manager Dusty Baker called it a "perfect potential double-play ball" but said the timing was off because Walker "bobbled the ball."

 

The result was an errant throw from shortstop Ronny Cedeno, coming across the bag, allowing two more runs to score.

 

"That was a big play," Baker said, "because it would've [stayed] 3-2 instead of 5-2. Would've been a totally different ballgame."

 

Bobble? Not so, Walker said.

 

"Y'all need to go look at the replay. … It kind of handcuffed me, but it didn't stick in my glove and I didn't bobble it," he said.

 

So what happened?

 

"I got a little tough short hop there," Walker said. "I think Bob [brenly] mentioned on TV I had trouble [getting it out of my glove]. I didn't have trouble getting it out of my glove. It was just a tough hop. We got the play at second and could've got the guy at first too. That was a tough deal, but you'll have to ask Ronny about that."

 

Cedeno was asked if Walker bobbled the ball and affected his timing.

 

"Yes," Cedeno replied. "In that situation, we have to go real quick."

 

Maybe Todd Walker is trying to talk himself into a quick exit off of the team. Talk about not being able to shut your mouth. Add Walker to the list of players I can't wait for the Cubs to get rid of.

 

I know I hate me some productive players.

 

Seriously though, a player's media interaction should not impact their status on the team.

 

That's pretty unrealistic. Your statement applies to superstars, not Todd Walker.

[CUBZ99]

^^ OK how about his below average (for him) .757 OPS

 

Yes, his OPS has helped the Cubs immensely this year. Especially over June and July when he carried the club. Without Walker the Cubs would have never made it to the playoffs in 2004 and 2005 and if they trade him they might finish with 105 losses instead of 100.

 

Wait huh? I was defending you

 

Sorry for my poor use of sarcasm. :oops:

[Andy]

No offense taken soccer10k, although I don't think the fact that Jones is playing well this year (and he is playing very well based on his career numbers) gives him any more license to yell back at hecklers than Neifi's play does. His strong effort this year does not change the fact that the team is terrible, and no one on this team, not even Lee, has the right to argue that point with any fan.