Do we have any position players worth a darn?

[KaiserCesar]

Might Patterson be worth a darn? Yes. I'd like to see the Cubs bring him up for the 2nd half of this year and trade Todd Walker, but I highly doubt they'll give up on this season like I would.

Even if the Cubs finally face reality and give up on the season, Patterson shouldn't be called up yet. He's having a good season in AA, but this is only his second pro season. They ruined his brother's development by calling him up before he was ready; hopefully they won't do the same thing with Eric. I wouldn't mind a September callup, but I doubt that would happen since they'd need to add him to the 40-man roster and start the option clock to do so.

 

Agreed, Theriot or Fontenot should get a shot towards the end of the year. If either of those guys prove to be marginal or better they could be stop gaps for EPatt in late 07/08

[imb]

I don't know about that. 2nd basemen usually turn into thirdbasemen, not vice versa.

 

Kind of like Ryne Sandberg, right? It can be done and it depends on the athlete.

 

Sure, maybe Moore can make the transition that HOF Ryne Sandberg made.

[abuck1220]

What great position player have the Yankees produced lately? Robinson Cano? Its been a while since guys like Jeter and Posada. If money equals position player prospects, how do you explain the lack of guys coming out of the Yankees organization? How's Dioner Navarro turning out? Is Nick Johnson an all-star? Soriano's got some talent and he's had a great first half, but his career numbers paint a more complete picture.

 

 

if the cubs produced someone the caliber of johnson or soriano, i'd be doing backflips of glee.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't know about that. 2nd basemen usually turn into thirdbasemen, not vice versa.

 

Kind of like Ryne Sandberg, right? It can be done and it depends on the athlete.

 

Sure, maybe Moore can make the transition that HOF Ryne Sandberg made.

 

Do you agree that what has been said about Moore? He is athletic and has the arm to play third. To me that says he has potential to play 2nd. Why I mentioned Sandberg is because he too was an athletic guy that went from 3rd to 2nd and had decent power. Yes he is a HOF guy but I mention him as a Cub example we all could use. I'm curious on how Moores and Sandbergs numbers match up.

[imb]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

Edited July 10, 2006 by Bunts Lick Butts

[goonys evil twin]

What great position player have the Yankees produced lately? Robinson Cano? Its been a while since guys like Jeter and Posada. If money equals position player prospects, how do you explain the lack of guys coming out of the Yankees organization? How's Dioner Navarro turning out? Is Nick Johnson an all-star? Soriano's got some talent and he's had a great first half, but his career numbers paint a more complete picture.

 

 

if the cubs produced someone the caliber of johnson or soriano, i'd be doing backflips of glee.

 

Yeah, I'm not Soriano fan, but if the Cubs produced a guy like that I'd have a lot less to complain about.

 

Besides, just saying that it's been a while since Jeter and Posada doesn't mean much. They did produce those guys just 10 years ago, and they are still playing and producing for the team. The Cubs have gone much much longer since developing just one similar player, let alone two. Take Soriano, Johnson, Jeter and Posada, and you've got 4 guys in 10 years that blow away anything the Cubs could put together the 12 years MacPhail and Hendry have been in charge.

[NCCubFan]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

None of those stats you presented for comparison have a darn thing to do with what he can do defensively. They say he probably won't be the hitter Sandberg was, and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise, but they do absolutely nothing to support your saying that he probably couldn't shift to second.

[imb]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

None of those stats you presented for comparison have a darn thing to do with what he can do defensively. They say he probably won't be the hitter Sandberg was, and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise, but they do absolutely nothing to support your saying that he probably couldn't shift to second.

 

Wouldn't his sub .850 ops at third base work a lot better at second? If he could play second, he'd probably already be there. Besides, Cuse asked me how their numbers stacked up. Aren't there some spelling errors around here that need correcting?

[CuseCubFan69]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

 

Thanks for the numbers. The Phillies never thought of putting Sandberg there and since the Cubs have Patterson at 2nd behind him maybe that's the reason. I just want the Cubs to plug in some strong players from the minors and not just fillers. I think if Moore could do it he could be a very good numbers wise hitting 2nd baseman. That would make it just one less hole for the Cubs to fill.

[imb]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

 

Thanks for the numbers. The Phillies never thought of putting Sandberg there and since the Cubs have Patterson at 2nd behind him maybe that's the reason. I just want the Cubs to plug in some strong players from the minors and not just fillers. I think if Moore could do it he could be a very good numbers wise hitting 2nd baseman. That would make it just one less hole for the Cubs to fill.

 

That's what I'm saying. How old is Epatt? He has to be at least 22 or 23 and his ops is around, what, 75 points lower than Moore's? If Moore could hack it there defensively, he probably would be already.

[goonys evil twin]

Just a quickie

 

Moore as a 22 and a half year old in AA .278/342/.488

Sandberg as a 22 year old in the Majors .271/.312/.372

Sandberg's AA numbers as a 20 year old .310/.403/.469

 

I doubt Moore has the athleticism or glove to play 2nd professionally. If he did, why wouldn't they have tried him over there where his less than overwhelming bat (for a 3B) would be more adequate?

 

Thanks for the numbers. The Phillies never thought of putting Sandberg there and since the Cubs have Patterson at 2nd behind him maybe that's the reason. I just want the Cubs to plug in some strong players from the minors and not just fillers. I think if Moore could do it he could be a very good numbers wise hitting 2nd baseman. That would make it just one less hole for the Cubs to fill.

 

That's what I'm saying. How old is Epatt? He has to be at least 22 or 23 and his ops is around, what, 75 points lower than Moore's? If Moore could hack it there defensively, he probably would be already.

 

With this regime's infatuation with ball catching, I don't see it happening. I think they are going to try to play the 8 best fielders at each position and then worry about offense after the fact.

[Guest]

Orlando Hudson is probably the best defensive 2B in the league and he started off as a 3B.

 

But Moore isn't close to as athletic as Hudson, nor does he have that kind of footwork from what I've seen/heard/read.

[Outshined_One]

Orlando Hudson is probably the best defensive 2B in the league and he started off as a 3B.

 

But Moore isn't close to as athletic as Hudson, nor does he have that kind of footwork from what I've seen/heard/read.

 

Yep. If Moore has to move from 3B, it'll be into the OF. He should be pretty good defensively out there, but he'll lose some value since his bat is pretty good at 3B.

[NCCubFan]

How old is Epatt? He has to be at least 22 or 23 and his ops is around, what, 75 points lower than Moore's? If Moore could hack it there defensively, he probably would be already.

They're fairly close age-wise. Patterson turned 23 in April; Moore will turn 23 in November.

[CubsWin]

What great position player have the Yankees produced lately? Robinson Cano? Its been a while since guys like Jeter and Posada. If money equals position player prospects, how do you explain the lack of guys coming out of the Yankees organization? How's Dioner Navarro turning out? Is Nick Johnson an all-star? Soriano's got some talent and he's had a great first half, but his career numbers paint a more complete picture.

 

 

if the cubs produced someone the caliber of johnson or soriano, i'd be doing backflips of glee.

 

Yeah, I'm not Soriano fan, but if the Cubs produced a guy like that I'd have a lot less to complain about.

 

Besides, just saying that it's been a while since Jeter and Posada doesn't mean much. They did produce those guys just 10 years ago, and they are still playing and producing for the team. The Cubs have gone much much longer since developing just one similar player, let alone two. Take Soriano, Johnson, Jeter and Posada, and you've got 4 guys in 10 years that blow away anything the Cubs could put together the 12 years MacPhail and Hendry have been in charge.

The point is the relationship between team revenue and production of all-star caliber position players is negligible. It likely influences it, but not to the point of control.

 

I don't know if I would be doing backflips either, but, yes, most definitely we would have less to complain about if the Cubs had been able to produce players like Cano and Soriano. Besides the point, but clearly an accurate statement.

[CuseCubFan69]

I was thinking last night about my two favorite Cub 2nd baseman Ryne and Manny Trillo. Both changed postions...Ryne from 3rd and Manny from Catcher. I just want to start seeing impact players coming out of the system and if EPatt doesn't cut it at 2nd then let's try Moore especially if Ramirez is signed long term. I'm just looking for a good player that can come up and start every 2 years from the minors...is that un realistic? Of course if Baker read that question he'd be thrilled and say "Yeah, I could start a rookie once a year every 2 years." Murton was last year and it's time for another one in 2007. I understand that it won't happen exactly once every two years but as an average.

[CubsWin]

But to answer the question originally posed, are there any position players worth a darn right now? No, not at the moment, but that can change quickly. Nobody is on fire, red hot at the moment. But several have the ability to become that way very quickly.

That was written July 9th. Since then...

 

-Ryan Harvey has hit .394 (37-for-94) over 25 games. In that span he has hit 10 doubles, 9 HRs, 3 BB, 21 K, scored 25 runs and drove in 26 more. The good news is the sample size on this hot streak is growing. The bad news is his strikeout to walk ratio is still absolutely terrible, but there is a silver lining. During his current 4-game hitting streak, he has walked 3 times and struck out only once.

 

-I trust we all know how Felix Pie has turned it on since the start of this thread. He went .316/.352/.419 in July. So far in August, he is 10-for-23 (.435) with 3 walks and 4 Ks in 6 games. He has scored 8 times in those 6 games while stealing 2 bases and posting a .739 SLG (4 doubles, 1 HR).

 

-Jake Fox was on the prospect radar after a terrific spring filling in for Barrett and Blanco who were off at the WBC. He went 6-for-15 (.400) over 9 games with 4 doubles and a triple. I was surprised when he was sent to High-A Daytona given his age at the time, 23, (he has since turned 24) but he did nothing but produce hitting .313/.383/.574 earning him a promotion to AA. He struggled mightily since that promotion and probably fell off of many fans prospect radar screens. But he has broken out of his slump in a big way. Over the last 6 games, Fox is batting .462 (12-for-26) with 5 doubles, 3 HRs, 5 runs scored and 15 batted in. Fifteen RBI and a SLG of 1.000 over his last 6 games. And, as a catcher, he is not playing everyday so that is over a period of a couple weeks. In his last 9 games, he is batting .368.

 

-Two years ago, Brian Dopirak was named the Cubs #1 prospect by BA. I didn't buy it, but was glad to see a Cubs hitting prospect not named Pie top the list for once. His season at High-A in '05 was certainly disappointing, but I believe if a guy can do it once, he can do it again. Brian also had an impressive spring filling in for Derrek Lee while he was at the WBC hitting .355 with 2 doubles and 2 HRs in 31 ABs. There was reason for optimism as he started in AA this year, but Dope seriously injured his foot in his first game and hasn't been able to generate any power in his swing because of it all season. But over his last 10 games he has hit .323/.462/.548 with 4 doubles and a HR, 8 BB/9 K. Maybe his foot is finally healed...

 

-Scott Moore finally started living up to his draft position last season when he hit .281/.358/.485 for Daytona. But because he was repeating that level, many have been waiting to deem him a worthy position prospect. It also may have something to do with the fact that he struck out 134 times in 128 games while walking only 55 times. This season, Moore has also struggled with the strike zone while putting up decent numbers in his first go around at AA. Moore is batting .271/.341/.469 while striking out 105 times in 106 games and walking just 36 times. But over his last 9 games which includes his current 7-game hitting streak, Moore has walked 8 times and struck out only 3 times while going 12-for-31 with 2 doubles and 2 HRs for a line of .387/.513/.645.

 

-One position prospect who may be flying under the radar right now is 21-year-old Nate Spears who the Cubs got from Baltimore in the Corey Patterson trade. He started off slow at Daytona in a league that he is a year young for, but he has shown improvement every month. In April he hit .204, in May .227, in June .273 with a .333 OBP. He got injured in July so he was limited to just 15 ABs, but in those 15 ABs he hit .267/.429./.533. He came back from his injury August 1st and has been on a tear ever since hitting .350/.435/.500 with 3 doubles and 5 runs scored in 5 games.

 

-I think Ryan Malone, the 21-year-old infielder at Low-A Peoria, deserves mention for hitting .304/.383/.432 going into tonight's action. While we also shouldn't forget Eric Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Alfred Joseph, Mark Reed or Geovany Soto as possible legit position prospects.

 

No one still really fits the description of a top-flight position prospect, but with so many having gotten hot since the inception of this thread, the landscape of the Cubs position prospect future has certainly altered a bit.

[Outshined_One]

-One position prospect who may be flying under the radar right now is 21-year-old Nate Spears who the Cubs got from Baltimore in the Corey Patterson trade. He started off slow at Daytona in a league that he is a year young for, but he has shown improvement every month. In April he hit .204, in May .227, in June .273 with a .333 OBP. He got injured in July so he was limited to just 15 ABs, but in those 15 ABs he hit .267/.429./.533. He came back from his injury August 1st and has been on a tear ever since hitting .350/.435/.500 with 3 doubles and 5 runs scored in 5 games.

 

While I dig his patience on the season, his power has been absolutely abysmal. He still could make the majors, but a .311 SLG isn't going to bowl anyone over, especially at 2B.

 

-I think Ryne Malone, the 21-year-old infielder at Low-A Peoria, deserves mention for hitting .304/.383/.432 going into tonight's action. While we also shouldn't forget Eric Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Alfred Joseph, Mark Reed or Geovany Soto as possible legit position prospects.

 

Fixed. :D

[CubsWin]

-One position prospect who may be flying under the radar right now is 21-year-old Nate Spears who the Cubs got from Baltimore in the Corey Patterson trade. He started off slow at Daytona in a league that he is a year young for, but he has shown improvement every month. In April he hit .204, in May .227, in June .273 with a .333 OBP. He got injured in July so he was limited to just 15 ABs, but in those 15 ABs he hit .267/.429./.533. He came back from his injury August 1st and has been on a tear ever since hitting .350/.435/.500 with 3 doubles and 5 runs scored in 5 games.

 

While I dig his patience on the season, his power has been absolutely abysmal. He still could make the majors, but a .311 SLG isn't going to bowl anyone over, especially at 2B.

 

-I think Ryne Malone, the 21-year-old infielder at Low-A Peoria, deserves mention for hitting .304/.383/.432 going into tonight's action. While we also shouldn't forget Eric Patterson, Tyler Colvin, Alfred Joseph, Mark Reed or Geovany Soto as possible legit position prospects.

 

Fixed. :D

Thanks for the fix. :D

 

As far as Nate's low, low SLG, there are a few things to keep in mind. He is young for his level, and it has improved steadily over the season. So his early numbers pulling down his SLG are probably not representative of his actual ability. In his last 35 ABs spread out over 2 months, he has a SLG over .500. Now that is probably also not representative, but I'd take a .425 - .450 SLG from a slick-fielding 2B wouldn't you? Also, at 21, he will likely develop more power over the next couple of years. He has hit 3 doubles in his last 20 ABs and 7 in his last 29 ABs. So he's got doubles power at the age of 21. So do a lot of decent prospects. Especially when they are year young for their league. He may never hit 20 HRs in the bigs, but 40-45 doubles per season is good too.

[Outshined_One]

Two words:

 

Sample size.

 

I'm skeptical until he proves he can keep putting up these kinds of numbers by the end of the season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

21 isn't all that young for High A either.

[CubsWin]

Two words:

 

Sample size.

 

I'm skeptical until he proves he can keep putting up these kinds of numbers by the end of the season.

As am I. Just providing evidence that he is likely better than a .311 SLG.

[CubsWin]

21 isn't all that young for High A either.

You're right, its not all that young. Just a year.

[Mephistopheles]

Nate Spears is repeating High A. He hit .294/.349/.429 in the Carolina League last season. He doesn't have tools either. He's a baseball rat who gets as much out of his tools as he can, he's a homeless man's David Eckstein.

[Outshined_One]

Nate Spears is repeating High A. He hit .294/.349/.429 in the Carolina League last season. He doesn't have tools either. He's a baseball rat who gets as much out of his tools as he can, he's a homeless man's David Eckstein.

 

Bill Simmons fan?