"Something going on upstairs...."

[dalgreen]

That's not a quote I want to read/hear from a supposed ace of the staff. Just my opinion, but if Rusch had said it I wouldn't be as concerned because he just sucks and we knew that. But for Prior to say that (the quote is "There's something going on upstairs and I have to figure it out.") really concerns me. I've always maintained that I didn't think we should pencil in Wood or Prior as our "aces" to begin a season because of their health issues. Hey, maybe Prior has great stuff but is more of a #2 or #3 than an ace? It's obvious that Ramirez isn't capable of carrying a team, maybe the same could be made of Prior?

[CuseCubFan69]

I like Priors ability but I've always doubted his mental toughness. I hope he pitches well and before the trading deadline somebody really overpays for him.

[wade]

I've always thought Prior exuded maturity/ mental toughness. But, this is an interesting question you pose. He's been heralded as Roy Hobbes without the gunshot wound since he was drafted. He had some outstanding games fairly early in his career (I think there was a 16 strikeout game in 2003) with a great all around year that helped lead an historically bad team deep into the playoffs.

 

Maybe those high expectations paired with some crazy, some frustrating injuries have him a little shell shocked. Maybe he looks at the Bartman game as him unraveling a little under the poor circumstances. Maybe his shoulder problems have him still a little afraid to air it out.

 

Who knows. It's a good question, I think, and all this is off the top of my head. He's still pretty young and maybe he's forward-thinking enough that he knows he has ace stuff and he wonders if there's a mental roadblock.

[goonys evil twin]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

[CubinNY]

I am more than willing to let this year be erased for Prior with all that has happend to him and the team. He's still very young and really has never faced adversity like this. Maybe he learns a lot from this year and it helps him for the future.

 

I think Prior will be a top pitcher for many years to come.

[CuseCubFan69]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

[goonys evil twin]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

[daske17]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

I agree. How many ace pitchers have had the weight of a franchise thrust onto their shoulders and came out the better for it? As a 25 year old, I'm sure there's more than enough pressure on him, without having to battle back from consistent and random injuries.

 

It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there.

[CuseCubFan69]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

Absolutely no. I thought this from the beginning when he was the wonder boy gooney. I agree that he is fighting his way through some injuries but that has little to do with what I'm saying. I look at a pitcher (this is where you and I disagree big time) and I see something missing when he's getting hit. He isn't used to it and IMO he does not know how to deal with it. Will he learn? Possibly. I just don't think he has what it takes to step up and fight through a bad game.

[Sammy Sofa]

I wouldn't surprise me at all to hear him talk like this, nor does it overly concern me, especially with the hope that we've got some new bosses rolling in. Like people are saying, he's very young and has been looked at as THE future of this wretched team almost from the moment he got here. There's a lot of press focus on him, not just local, both positive and good. People are constantly criticizing him for being too soft or injured too much or over praising him as being the next coming of Jesus on the pitching mound. Add the crappy coaching, the heartbreak of 2003 and the freak injuries on top of it all and that's a hell of a ride for a guy's who is still a young adult. Yeah, these guys need to be tough, but it's not like he's copping out...he's just being honest. I'm all for letting him take the time to ease back into things mentally and physically. This year is not worth it...he can be an anchor for years if given a little more patience until 2007.

[CuseCubFan69]

It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there.

 

I haven't. I just look to see when a player is facing failure and how they deal with it. He's a kid but he's also been in the league since 2003 so he's not a baby anymore either.

[imb]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

I agree. How many ace pitchers have had the weight of a franchise thrust onto their shoulders and came out the better for it? As a 25 year old, I'm sure there's more than enough pressure on him, without having to battle back from consistent and random injuries.

 

It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there.

 

Agreed. I get really sick of these stupid "insights" into players personality that everyone seems to have. Instead of realizing that he's been hurt every single year he's been in the majors and thinking about the effect that just the missed time will have on a player (not to mention the actual injury and rehab, etc), let's blame him for not being man enough.

 

Michael Barret is stupid, Corey Patterson is uncoachable, Wood and Prior aren't tough enough, whatever the excuse of the day is. Things are bad enough now without coming up with stupid and pointless comments about a players mental toughness, or physical toughness or whatever it is these days.

[goonys evil twin]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

Absolutely no. I thought this from the beginning when he was the wonder boy gooney. I agree that he is fighting his way through some injuries but that has little to do with what I'm saying. I look at a pitcher (this is where you and I disagree big time) and I see something missing when he's getting hit. He isn't used to it and IMO he does not know how to deal with it. Will he learn? Possibly. I just don't think he has what it takes to step up and fight through a bad game.

 

This all sounds just like the Corey Patterson isn't coachable or Kerry Wood doesn't care stuff to me.

[Chocolate Milk]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

I agree. How many ace pitchers have had the weight of a franchise thrust onto their shoulders and came out the better for it? As a 25 year old, I'm sure there's more than enough pressure on him, without having to battle back from consistent and random injuries.

 

It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there.

 

Agreed. I get really sick of these stupid "insights" into players personality that everyone seems to have. Instead of realizing that he's been hurt every single year he's been in the majors and thinking about the effect that just the missed time will have on a player (not to mention the actual injury and rehab, etc), let's blame him for not being man enough.

 

Michael Barret is stupid, Corey Patterson is uncoachable, Wood and Prior aren't tough enough, whatever the excuse of the day is. Things are bad enough now without coming up with stupid and pointless comments about a players mental toughness, or physical toughness or whatever it is these days.

 

Well said.

[CuseCubFan69]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

Absolutely no. I thought this from the beginning when he was the wonder boy gooney. I agree that he is fighting his way through some injuries but that has little to do with what I'm saying. I look at a pitcher (this is where you and I disagree big time) and I see something missing when he's getting hit. He isn't used to it and IMO he does not know how to deal with it. Will he learn? Possibly. I just don't think he has what it takes to step up and fight through a bad game.

 

This all sounds just like the Corey Patterson isn't coachable or Kerry Wood doesn't care stuff to me.

 

Quite different but I understand your pessimissum. I've coached many different kids and they are all so different much like these guys are. I thought Patterson was an intervert and a nice kid. I think Wood has a big heart but stubburn. I think Prior has had a lot of success and is used to cruising and when he isn't he can't get past it. It's my opinion and I've felt it since 2003 and I've wrote it since then. When you get into a players head, no they are not robots, you can change their approach and IMO you can do that with Prior. I may be wrong but I feel this way and I would love to be proved wrong. Granted, you have to hit the kid first which isn't easy but when it's done he just doesn't have that extra fight in him.

[CuseCubFan69]

He's 25 years old. Not many 25 year olds are carrying their team or shutdown aces. Besides, nobody that plays once every 5 games carries a team.

 

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

 

He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career.

 

This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now.

 

I agree. How many ace pitchers have had the weight of a franchise thrust onto their shoulders and came out the better for it? As a 25 year old, I'm sure there's more than enough pressure on him, without having to battle back from consistent and random injuries.

 

It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there.

 

Agreed. I get really sick of these stupid "insights" into players personality that everyone seems to have. Instead of realizing that he's been hurt every single year he's been in the majors and thinking about the effect that just the missed time will have on a player (not to mention the actual injury and rehab, etc), let's blame him for not being man enough.

 

Michael Barret is stupid, Corey Patterson is uncoachable, Wood and Prior aren't tough enough, whatever the excuse of the day is. Things are bad enough now without coming up with stupid and pointless comments about a players mental toughness, or physical toughness or whatever it is these days.

 

Maybe we can all play the games on computer and you could be right. Until then humans play them.

 

Priors got plenty of time to prove me wrong and as I said earlier I hope he does.

[goonys evil twin]

Quite different but I understand your pessimissum. I've coached many different kids and they are all so different much like these guys are. I thought Patterson was an intervert and a nice kid. I think Wood has a big heart but stubburn. I think Prior has had a lot of success and is used to cruising and when he isn't he can't get past it. It's my opinion and I've felt it since 2003 and I've wrote it since then. When you get into a players head, no they are not robots, you can change their approach and IMO you can do that with Prior. I may be wrong but I feel this way and I would love to be proved wrong. Granted, you have to hit the kid first which isn't easy but when it's done he just doesn't have that extra fight in him.

 

I think it's more important for you to prove yourself right when throwing out wild accusations like that. He battled pretty hard in 2003, and my guess is you'll try to hang it all on that very poorly managed playoff game as a justification for your claims, even though he was so poorly abused going into that game, battling like very few 23 year olds have ever had to battle.

[goonys evil twin]

Maybe we can all play the games on computer and you could be right. Until then humans play them.

 

Priors got plenty of time to prove me wrong and as I said earlier I hope he does.

 

I don't see why he has to prove you wrong. The vast majority of these guys cruised through their younger years and faced little to no adversity. I don't get why you think you can use that as evidence against Prior's manliness.

[imb]

A computer? You lost me.

 

I'm saying that Prior is having a rough go of it because of these reasons

 

He's young and since he hasn't ever played a full season, he's missed a lot of development time. Aside from all the time he's missed, the actual injuries have to have had a detrimental effect on his stuff, at least somewhat, considering he's injured his leg, his achilles, his shoulder and his elbow.

 

These are actual, real reasons that you can point the finger at and say "Hey, this stuff actually happened and are actual reasons that players actually do worse than we may want/expect". Saying that "he isn't tough enough" or "he isn't mentally strong enough" or "he doesn't have enough composure" is just a guess. You can actually point to the injuries and the missed time, those are real. The rest are just stupid assumpions, and I'm sure you know what happens when you assume.

 

When Prior went through his first real, bad injury in 2003 (shoulder) he came back and dominated. Not just pitched well, but dominated. I'd say that takes some mental toughness.

[CuseCubFan69]

Quite different but I understand your pessimissum. I've coached many different kids and they are all so different much like these guys are. I thought Patterson was an intervert and a nice kid. I think Wood has a big heart but stubburn. I think Prior has had a lot of success and is used to cruising and when he isn't he can't get past it. It's my opinion and I've felt it since 2003 and I've wrote it since then. When you get into a players head, no they are not robots, you can change their approach and IMO you can do that with Prior. I may be wrong but I feel this way and I would love to be proved wrong. Granted, you have to hit the kid first which isn't easy but when it's done he just doesn't have that extra fight in him.

 

I think it's more important for you to prove yourself right when throwing out wild accusations like that. He battled pretty hard in 2003, and my guess is you'll try to hang it all on that very poorly managed playoff game as a justification for your claims, even though he was so poorly abused going into that game, battling like very few 23 year olds have ever had to battle.

 

Yes the game was poorly managed I agree. I look at his mechanics breaking down when teams hit him. They change as do his mannerisms.

[goonys evil twin]

Yes the game was poorly managed I agree. I look at his mechanics breaking down when teams hit him. They change as do his mannerisms.

 

A young kid changing his mechanics on his 115th pitch and not looking happy when the other team hits him isn't even close to evidence supporting your claim. Zambrano huffs around like a 12 year old girl who is banned from the phone when teams start getting to him, that doesn't mean he's not mentally tough enough to succeed as a pitcher. Greg Maddux has some horrible mannerisms when things go bad, doesn't mean a thing. If he was tough enough to make it this far he's tough enough to deal with obstacles.

[CuseCubFan69]

Maybe we can all play the games on computer and you could be right. Until then humans play them.

 

Priors got plenty of time to prove me wrong and as I said earlier I hope he does.

 

I don't see why he has to prove you wrong. The vast majority of these guys cruised through their younger years and faced little to no adversity. I don't get why you think you can use that as evidence against Prior's manliness.

 

You're right they have cruised and the difference between the super stars and the potential guys are the ones that fail and fight/learn while the potential guys just do what they've always done and don't adapt. Why Prior? I think he has to have the perfect situation before he goes out and can't go out if it isn't. Baker has screwed this up and I agree with you that he hasn't helped and maybe I'm reading this wrong because of that.

[JonnyRed]

If you think it's been painful watching C-Pat rebound the way that he has this year, imagine what it would be like to see Prior rebound into Cy Young form for another team. He's too young and inexpensive to trade off at this point. Prior sure would make a nice #2 behind Z.

[goonys evil twin]

 

You're right they have cruised and the difference between the super stars and the potential guys are the ones that fail and fight/learn while the potential guys just do what they've always done and don't adapt. Why Prior? I think he has to have the perfect situation before he goes out and can't go out if it isn't.

 

So Prior never had to adapt to anything in 2002 or 2003, or late last year when he came back from a broken elbow and had very good results? He had nothing but the perfect situation laid out in front of him?

 

He's had some of the worst coaching possible and one of the worst offenses in the game ever since he became a Cub, not to mention some god awful defense behind him and incredibly inconsist relievers. And all this between 21-25, when you're supposed to be learning the game from all those tough guys that made it through the rigors of many a season before you, except his veteran teammates were largely inept bums who had to have a kid carry them if anything good was going to happen.

[CuseCubFan69]

A computer? You lost me.

 

I'm saying that Prior is having a rough go of it because of these reasons

 

He's young and since he hasn't ever played a full season, he's missed a lot of development time. Aside from all the time he's missed, the actual injuries have to have had a detrimental effect on his stuff, at least somewhat, considering he's injured his leg, his achilles, his shoulder and his elbow.

 

These are actual, real reasons that you can point the finger at and say "Hey, this stuff actually happened and are actual reasons that players actually do worse than we may want/expect". Saying that "he isn't tough enough" or "he isn't mentally strong enough" or "he doesn't have enough composure" is just a guess. You can actually point to the injuries and the missed time, those are real. The rest are just stupid assumpions, and I'm sure you know what happens when you assume.

 

When Prior went through his first real, bad injury in 2003 (shoulder) he came back and dominated. Not just pitched well, but dominated. I'd say that takes some mental toughness.

 

When I wrote computer I was thinking about how different players react to differnt situations. Not that clutch stuff but when failure happens. On computer games you don't have that feature but with humans you do, that's what I meant.

 

Domination is a wonderful thing to have in a pitcher and Prior has that potential to do it again, you're right. It's just the 4 run by the second inning games that he gives up that I want to see him continue to his 90 or so pitches the pen has a shot. Just do me a favor and when he does have the bad couple of early innings or is getting hit hard in the 5th, just look at him and see if his face changes, his mannerisms. He's young so maybe he'll learn not to show those as much but I've looked and a different person when he struggles. It's not always mechanics that break down and finding these signs is something I've had to look for all my career. I like the kid and I wish him well but I feel what I feel. Is it an assumption or an educated guess?