ARam Sounds Off

[CubbieRich]

Would you care to cite a tangible reason why Aramis is "Average on his best day"? Because, despite his struggles this season, every available number says otherwise.

 

Would you also care to prove how he "Just doesn't get it", and has "very little baseball sense"? You cite the lost pop up, but I very much doubt he's the only ML who's ever lost a popup.

 

It's funny how there always has to be a scapegoat who "doesn't play the game right", or is "lazy", or "gutless", or some other such nonesense. Everything is magnified when a team is this bad, and there are about 22 guys on this roster who are more of a problem than Ramirez.

 

I need only go to last night's game with the Brewers to show how Lazy heis. Look at what Paul Sullivan of the TRIB wrote:

 

Aramis Ramirez, who drove in the first run, displayed the same lack of hustle he showed on Thursday night, jogging to first base on a hit that could have been a double if he had run instead of watching the ball.

 

"We talk to him about it all the time," Baker said before the game.

 

"He hasn't had any problem, knock on wood, and we've addressed [the lack of hustling]."

If that's the case, either he wasn't listening or he was purposely ignoring Baker's plea, for reasons only Ramirez knows.

 

Kool-aid drinkers can't find stats for 'playing the game right' or 'giving it your all'. Better just to look at numbers and close your eyes to the rest. One wonders how they are evaluated on their jobs. No doubt expect a cookie for just showing up.

[Scott G. F.]

BTW the Cubs have won 2 out of 3 since the Am Ram call out. The pitchers have given 3 quality starts and the offense and Am Ram was to blame for the only loss. I hope this does split the team up into the ptichers and offense in a game of oneupsmanship. That'll result in winning games.

 

This team needed that type of thing to happen. Am Ram needs to step up his game now.

 

Put up or shut up time for the Ram!!

[USSoccer]

Would you care to cite a tangible reason why Aramis is "Average on his best day"? Because, despite his struggles this season, every available number says otherwise.

 

Would you also care to prove how he "Just doesn't get it", and has "very little baseball sense"? You cite the lost pop up, but I very much doubt he's the only ML who's ever lost a popup.

 

It's funny how there always has to be a scapegoat who "doesn't play the game right", or is "lazy", or "gutless", or some other such nonesense. Everything is magnified when a team is this bad, and there are about 22 guys on this roster who are more of a problem than Ramirez.

 

I need only go to last night's game with the Brewers to show how Lazy heis. Look at what Paul Sullivan of the TRIB wrote:

 

Aramis Ramirez, who drove in the first run, displayed the same lack of hustle he showed on Thursday night, jogging to first base on a hit that could have been a double if he had run instead of watching the ball.

 

"We talk to him about it all the time," Baker said before the game.

 

"He hasn't had any problem, knock on wood, and we've addressed [the lack of hustling]."

If that's the case, either he wasn't listening or he was purposely ignoring Baker's plea, for reasons only Ramirez knows.

 

Kool-aid drinkers can't find stats for 'playing the game right' or 'giving it your all'. Better just to look at numbers and close your eyes to the rest. One wonders how they are evaluated on their jobs. No doubt expect a cookie for just showing up.

 

You're citing a Paul Sullivan article as evidence that Ramirez is lazy? That he has no baseball sense? From the quotes in that article, that's not what Baker is saying, that what Sullivan is framing, since ripping Ramirez is starting to gain steam on radio talk shows where the average caller has an IQ roughly equivalent to their pant size.

 

You've got to be kidding me. It's such a Chicago thing that every time a team struggles, fans have to find a scapegoat and then use reasons like "playing the game right" and "heart" to back up irrational conclusions about good players struggling for half a season.

 

Unless he's going out there with an oar instead of a bat, and a stapler instead of a glove, he's playing the game "the right way". Everything else is a matter of perception.

 

You do realize that during 2004 and 2005 he put up fantastic numbers despite dealing with nagging injuries? His talent didn't just evaporate. He's having a rough year at the same time the Cubs are having an abysmal year. There's no reason to toss him under the bus and act like he's the reason we're bad.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Would you care to cite a tangible reason why Aramis is "Average on his best day"? Because, despite his struggles this season, every available number says otherwise.

 

Would you also care to prove how he "Just doesn't get it", and has "very little baseball sense"? You cite the lost pop up, but I very much doubt he's the only ML who's ever lost a popup.

 

It's funny how there always has to be a scapegoat who "doesn't play the game right", or is "lazy", or "gutless", or some other such nonesense. Everything is magnified when a team is this bad, and there are about 22 guys on this roster who are more of a problem than Ramirez.

 

I need only go to last night's game with the Brewers to show how Lazy heis. Look at what Paul Sullivan of the TRIB wrote:

 

Aramis Ramirez, who drove in the first run, displayed the same lack of hustle he showed on Thursday night, jogging to first base on a hit that could have been a double if he had run instead of watching the ball.

 

"We talk to him about it all the time," Baker said before the game.

 

"He hasn't had any problem, knock on wood, and we've addressed [the lack of hustling]."

If that's the case, either he wasn't listening or he was purposely ignoring Baker's plea, for reasons only Ramirez knows.

 

Kool-aid drinkers can't find stats for 'playing the game right' or 'giving it your all'. Better just to look at numbers and close your eyes to the rest. One wonders how they are evaluated on their jobs. No doubt expect a cookie for just showing up.

 

You're citing a Paul Sullivan article as evidence that Ramirez is lazy? That he has no baseball sense? From the quotes in that article, that's not what Baker is saying, that what Sullivan is framing, since ripping Ramirez is starting to gain steam on radio talk shows where the average caller has an IQ roughly equivalent to their pant size.

 

You've got to be kidding me. It's such a Chicago thing that every time a team struggles, fans have to find a scapegoat and then use reasons like "playing the game right" and "heart" to back up irrational conclusions about good players struggling for half a season.

 

Unless he's going out there with an oar instead of a bat, and a stapler instead of a glove, he's playing the game "the right way". Everything else is a matter of perception.

 

You do realize that during 2004 and 2005 he put up fantastic numbers despite dealing with nagging injuries? His talent didn't just evaporate. He's having a rough year at the same time the Cubs are having an abysmal year. There's no reason to toss him under the bus and act like he's the reason we're bad.

 

Did you see the play the other night?

[USSoccer]

 

Did you see the play the other night?

 

Are you referring to Ramirez getting thrown out at 3b? Because that kind of stuff happens. It was a stupid mistake, but not worthy of this level of disdain being tossed at a player that has produced at a high level since his aquisition in 2003.

 

I have seen Lee stare at fly balls and have to stop at 2B instead of 3B. I have seen many other players do so. Does it irritate me he doesn't run flat out out of the box? A little, but in the scheme of things it's such a minor thing that's getting magnified x1000 because of the team's performance. It doesn't mean he doesn't have "baseball sense", or "heart", or "doesn't know how to play the game the 'right way'", it means he has a tendency to lose focus on crappy teams. He's an asset to this team, and I'd hate to see him run out of town by fans too myopic to see what the team's actual problems are.

[CUBZ99]

You're citing a Paul Sullivan article as evidence that Ramirez is lazy? That he has no baseball sense? From the quotes in that article, that's not what Baker is saying, that what Sullivan is framing, since ripping Ramirez is starting to gain steam on radio talk shows where the average caller has an IQ roughly equivalent to their pant size.

 

You've got to be kidding me. It's such a Chicago thing that every time a team struggles, fans have to find a scapegoat and then use reasons like "playing the game right" and "heart" to back up irrational conclusions about good players struggling for half a season.

 

Unless he's going out there with an oar instead of a bat, and a stapler instead of a glove, he's playing the game "the right way". Everything else is a matter of perception.

 

You do realize that during 2004 and 2005 he put up fantastic numbers despite dealing with nagging injuries? His talent didn't just evaporate. He's having a rough year at the same time the Cubs are having an abysmal year. There's no reason to toss him under the bus and act like he's the reason we're bad.

 

Any one who blames ARAM for the Cubs troubles this year is clueless. The Cubs problems don't stem from just one player or Dusty. However, to say that there is no measure to determine whether a player is "playing the game right", beside whether he is using a glove, and bat, is equally as clueless.

 

Clearly ARAM does not hustle all of the time and at times has mental lapses, for instance throwing the ball home when he has no shot, instead of getting the easy double play and preventing the big inning. ARAM is lucky to have a coach like Baker, I can't imagine ARAM's lackidasical(sp?) attitude would be tolerated by many other managers.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is it when people get frustrated with a players very noticeable flaws remaining problems are only "blaming that player for this team being so bad?" It's such a massive strawman.

 

Aramis has the talent...we've all seen it. It's frustrating when it gets buried like it has this year, and that's no because a lot of us think he's terrible...we know he can do it and succeed. Again, frustration...not blaming.

[USSoccer]

Why is it when people get frustrated with a players very noticeable flaws remaining problems are only "blaming that player for this team being so bad?" It's such a massive strawman.

 

Aramis has the talent...we've all seen it. It's frustrating when it gets buried like it has this year, and that's no because a lot of us think he's terrible...we know he can do it and succeed. Again, frustration...not blaming.

 

It's no worse a strawman that "playing the game the right way", or having "heart".

 

People in Chicago would worship mediocrity if it played like David Eckstein. I personally can tolerate not sprinting out of the batter's box at all times if the tradeoff is getting the kind of talent that Ramirez has.

[CubbieRich]

[Did you see the play the other night?

 

Why actually watch a game when it just confuses people. He was too busy calling John Paxson to complain about the trades of 'no heart-no hustle' Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler. Last night he was crunching numbers about Kerry Wood's WHIP 7 years ago.

 

The chant remains the same.

[Sammy Sofa]

Why is it when people get frustrated with a players very noticeable flaws remaining problems are only "blaming that player for this team being so bad?" It's such a massive strawman.

 

Aramis has the talent...we've all seen it. It's frustrating when it gets buried like it has this year, and that's no because a lot of us think he's terrible...we know he can do it and succeed. Again, frustration...not blaming.

 

It's no worse a strawman that "playing the game the right way", or having "heart".

 

Yeah, those are pretty empty catch phrases, but it still doesn't discount being able to be frustrated with a player who has shown he can be an all star playing this bad for this long, clearly dogging it multiple times on the field, and nothing seems to change.

[USSoccer]

[Did you see the play the other night?

 

Why actually watch a game when it just confuses people. He was too busy calling John Paxson to complain about the trades of 'no heart-no hustle' Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler. Last night he was crunching numbers about Kerry Wood's WHIP 7 years ago.

 

The chant remains the same.

 

Are you attacking my argument, or me?

 

I'm not talking about blindly evaluating players based on numbers, without observable input. I'm talking about how foolish it is to jump to conclusions about a player based on a stupid baserunning mistake, and a habit on not running all-out on every grouder or popup. You don't build a team around "hustle and heart". You build it around talent. Aramis has talent. You don't just toss talented, younger players out the window because of a perception that he doesn't care, or "have heart".

 

If this team were playing better, this wouldn't be magnified to the level it is. Losing has a tendency to do that, but to jump to the kind of conclusions you are making is a really bad idea.

Edited July 8, 2006 by USSoccer

[CubbieRich]

Why is it when people get frustrated with a players very noticeable flaws remaining problems are only "blaming that player for this team being so bad?" It's such a massive strawman.

 

Aramis has the talent...we've all seen it. It's frustrating when it gets buried like it has this year, and that's no because a lot of us think he's terrible...we know he can do it and succeed. Again, frustration...not blaming.

 

It's no worse a strawman that "playing the game the right way", or having "heart".

 

Yeah, those are pretty empty catch phrases, but it still doesn't discount being able to be frustrated with a player who has shown he can be an all star playing this bad for this long, clearly dogging it multiple times on the field, and nothing seems to change.

 

He is the 2nd highest paid everyday player on this terrible team. He should lead by example. He should produce when DLee goes down. He should hustle all the time. He should care. He doesn't. He is being richly rewarded for being less than average. This Cubs group refuses to sit his butt on the bench for less play.

 

Here Aramis, have a cookie(have two because Kerry can't lift his arm) and just do what you've been doing.

[fromthestretch]

 

Why actually watch a game when it just confuses people. He was too busy calling John Paxson to complain about the trades of 'no heart-no hustle' Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler. Last night he was crunching numbers about Kerry Wood's WHIP 7 years ago.

 

The chant remains the same.

 

Someone actually makes some very reasonable comments in opposition to your argument and instead of discussing it, you decide to make some totally asinine comment about statistics.

 

That was mature.

[Magnetic Curses]

the bottom line is we do not need ramirez to "hustle" and have "heart". heart and hustle are very overrated things in the game of baseball. we need him to do more important things, things that he has done in the last 2 years before this season.

 

what a joke, he gets thrown out at third after driving the ball into the gap (something that we've done little of this year) and he gets blamed for all of the cubs' problems.

 

if we had more players getting thrown out at third it would be a good thing, because at least we'd be driving the ball instead of pathetically and gutlessly "just putting the ball in play".

[CubbieRich]

the bottom line is we do not need ramirez to "hustle" and have "heart". heart and hustle are very overrated things in the game of baseball.

 

On the Cubs it is..but not on the other teams. Even Dusty knows better.

[Magnetic Curses]

the bottom line is we do not need ramirez to "hustle" and have "heart". heart and hustle are very overrated things in the game of baseball.

 

On the Cubs it is..but not on the other teams. Even Dusty knows better.

 

unfortunately, myths are very hard to let go of, especially when they've been taught to you all of your life. i don't know what to say, i'm sorry.

[Sammy Sofa]

what a joke, he gets thrown out at third after driving the ball into the gap (something that we've done little of this year) and he gets blamed for all of the cubs' problems.

 

Please quote where that has happened.