Hendry: No Fire Sale

[TruffleShuffle]

Please don't have a fire sale. I'd hate for this awesome core the Cubs have built to be dismantled.

[CUBZ99]

Have you looked at the stats of this year's Cubs team?

 

Another year of tweaking might make this team mediocre... if everything goes right.

 

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles.

 

The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall

 

Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling.

 

 

That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking...

 

You forgot Z, and I would also include the other members of the bullpen. IMO the only glaring deficiencies are the bench and the OF. Add a LF that can produce some runs, a frontline starting pitcher and some bench players that can fill in once in awhile and the Cubs are looking alot better.

[CuseCubFan69]

Please don't have a fire sale. I'd hate for this awesome core the Cubs have built to be dismantled.

 

You just can't break up a dynasty like this. Almost 100 million dollars and the third worst record in MLB....that isn't easy to do.

[Soul]

Have you looked at the stats of this year's Cubs team?

 

Another year of tweaking might make this team mediocre... if everything goes right.

 

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles.

 

The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall

 

Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling.

 

 

That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking...

 

You forgot Z, and I would also include the other members of the bullpen. IMO the only glaring deficiencies are the bench and the OF. Add a LF that can produce some runs, a frontline starting pitcher and some bench players that can fill in once in awhile and the Cubs are looking alot better.

 

I don't think so.

 

3B: fine.

SS: Cedeno is young yet, but I see him as more of a future bench player than a stud. Deficient.

2B: We all know Walker is gone. Deficient.

1B: fine.

C: fine---I'd like to see someone other than Blanco, but fine.

LF: Murton is still developing. He may hit eventually but his defense will never be top notch. Barely fine. Barely. I'll give Murt the time to see, keeping in mind with this coaching staff it will likely become a nightmare.

CF: We are obviously deficient.

RF: Jones won't last. He'll slump again and everyone will be calling for his head. Deficient.

 

Rotation:

 

1: Zambrano. Keeper

2: Prior. Keeper for '07, but not beyond if he doesn't make his starts.

3: Maddux. Gone. Shouldn't be 3rd starter anyway, but he's done. Deficient

4: Deficient.

5: Deficient.

 

Relief:

 

Closer: Borderline. I'll give Dempster one more year.

 

Middle Relief: Eyre, Howry are O.K. I guess, but Howry seems to struggle more than his rep would say. We still need 1 more guy.

 

Long Relief: nobody of note. Deficient.

 

 

By my count, we could use 8 players on this team. How are we just a couple tweaks away again? And hasn't Hendry been "tweaking" since 2003? Where has that gotten us again?

 

Glad you're so sure about the future of this team. Not me. Looks pretty bleak from where I'm sitting until we get new management.

[YearofDaCubs]

This team sucks and I have ZERO faith in Hendry that he can turn it around. 2003 was a loong time ago.

[NorthsideAvenger]

This team sucks and I have ZERO faith in Hendry that he can turn it around. 2003 was a loong time ago.

 

I have less faith then you YoDC.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Hendry could be stuck with underachieving Glendon Rusch and Neifi Perez because of their multiyear contracts and his refusal to eat those contracts.

 

CONFOUND IT JIM! JUST GIVE THEM THEIR DOUGH AND TELL THEM TO PACK THEIR BAGS!

 

Watch the mouth...er..fingers..er..whatever plz. I have innocent eyes.

 

You've watch the Cubs all year, so I believe you have no "innocent eyes." :twisted:

[TheDude]

By my count, we could use 8 players on this team. How are we just a couple tweaks away again? And hasn't Hendry been "tweaking" since 2003? Where has that gotten us again?

 

Glad you're so sure about the future of this team. Not me. Looks pretty bleak from where I'm sitting until we get new management.

 

Look at the 2003 team and this year's team and tell me how many players are in common...

 

With a nearly complete roster turnover, Hendry has done more than just tweak.

[TheDude]

Have you looked at the stats of this year's Cubs team?

 

Another year of tweaking might make this team mediocre... if everything goes right.

 

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles.

 

The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall

 

Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling.

 

 

That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking...

Well, you forgot Zambrano and the second youth from the farm, and you included the bench, which is just a numbers pad for your point.

 

Every team turns over the majority of its bench each year, so I do not like including the bench in "tweak" numbers.

 

So using actual math (as opposed to fuzzy math), I listed 12/20 roster spots, leaving eight. 5/8 are pitching slots, at least one of which is likely coming from within the current team.

 

So the reality is, aside from the bench, 2 starters, 2 bullpen guys, and 3 position players. I'm comfortable calling that a tweak. Pretty standard roster turnover in the bigs these days from year to year.

[TB_11]

ESPN has listed a potential Cubs fire sale in their rumors section (and to be fair, most of the rumors listed there come to nothing). Williamson, Walker, Nevin, Maddux and Pierre are the players listed as potentially being moved before the deadline.

 

Link, Insider required

[Caryatid]

Have you looked at the stats of this year's Cubs team?

 

Another year of tweaking might make this team mediocre... if everything goes right.

 

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles.

 

The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall

 

Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling.

 

 

That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking...

Well, you forgot Zambrano and the second youth from the farm, and you included the bench, which is just a numbers pad for your point.

 

Every team turns over the majority of its bench each year, so I do not like including the bench in "tweak" numbers.

 

So using actual math (as opposed to fuzzy math), I listed 12/20 roster spots, leaving eight. 5/8 are pitching slots, at least one of which is likely coming from within the current team.

 

So the reality is, aside from the bench, 2 starters, 2 bullpen guys, and 3 position players. I'm comfortable calling that a tweak. Pretty standard roster turnover in the bigs these days from year to year.

 

That's assuming Jones continues doing what he's doing right now (highly unlikely), "youth from the farm" is actually a part of the core (hard to think, considering the person is unidentified), and Marshall/Cedeno develop. That's THREE "maybes" among the core, which, in my opinion, doesn't really make them part of any "core."

 

So "tweaking" in this case could mean up to 11 changes, not eight. And that's not tweaking. Its not fuzzy math, either.

[Monco]

Blow it up! Enough of these high priced tweaks every year. Get some top prospects .Look down on the farm and there are very few. This 8 player core is really questionable. Looks more like 4 to me and 2 are setup guys.(Lee,Howry,Eyre,Marshall).

[A New Era]

Blow it up! Enough of these high priced tweaks every year. Get some top prospects .Look down on the farm and there are very few. This 8 player core is really questionable. Looks more like 4 to me and 2 are setup guys.(Lee,Howry,Eyre,Marshall).

 

There's more core players than that, IMO.

 

Lee

Barret

Aram

Cedeno (and if he's not core, some low payroll team would give you something good)

Jones (possibly, if you've got a BIG bat in LF)

Zambrano

 

And I'd consider Marshall and Marmol to be 2 really good young picthers to go with next year.

 

IMO the positions that need to be addressed are. . .

 

2B

LF

CF

SP

SP

 

If you can successfully get some GOOD guys for those positions to go around the good players we have at the other positions. We don't need no blowup, or firesale.

[Soul]

Blow it up! Enough of these high priced tweaks every year. Get some top prospects .Look down on the farm and there are very few. This 8 player core is really questionable. Looks more like 4 to me and 2 are setup guys.(Lee,Howry,Eyre,Marshall).

 

There's more core players than that, IMO.

 

Lee

Barret

Aram

Cedeno (and if he's not core, some low payroll team would give you something good)

Jones (possibly, if you've got a BIG bat in LF)

Zambrano

 

And I'd consider Marshall and Marmol to be 2 really good young picthers to go with next year.

 

IMO the positions that need to be addressed are. . .

 

2B

LF

CF

SP

SP

 

If you can successfully get some GOOD guys for those positions to go around the good players we have at the other positions. We don't need no blowup, or firesale.

 

We don't need no stinking blowup. 8)

 

 

Seriously though, we do need to blow up the front office. It's only going to get worse with MacPhail and Hendry guiding this ship.

[JC]

Doesn't the term "Fire Sale" imply that you are giving away the farm? That is, in baseball, you are actually giving up talent.

 

While shipping off Nevin, Williamson, Neifi, and Jones (dare I dream) would be nice to the extent the Cubs open up roster space, I don't expect the kind of talent in return that would warrant defining it as a fire sale. Classic fire sales like the Marlins and Padres have perfected actually moved talent in efforts to retool.

 

Like so many aspects of his job, I have no expectation that Hendry grasps that concept.

[Caryatid]

My thought was always that guys who should be considered "core" players are ones that do not need to be compensated for. In other words, you can build around their talents, but you don't need to say "because we have this guy, we need to bring something that he can't do by getting another player."

 

Using that criteria, I'd probably list only Lee, Barrett, Ramirez, and Zambrano as the true "core." They're the only players who don't require the team, because of a deficiency on their part, to go out and pursue someone to make up for them.

[Monco]

I went by another poster so I didn't mention Big Z all though he definately is a core player. Aram and Barrett could be core players but they would bring alot toward rebuilding.They need to rebuild as oppoesd to adding a few .Thats been done as long as I remember and we all know the results. While Barrett is a top hitter, his handling of pitchers and his defense hurts more than his hitting helps. Cedeno has always been a low obp guy with suspect defense and no power. Murton has potential but he probably needs to platoon for now.. While these guys may not seem bad,if you want an 80-85 win team keep Barrett.Cedeno, Walker,Jones, Dempster. If you want to win a championship get rid of these guys and rebuild for 08.

[beowulf28]

Hendry is great at "head in the sand thinking." Clean house starting with the gm, manager and half of the players. Start over!

 

Start with Andy MacPhail. Or, maybe he'll take the job of Commish. Or was that just a rumor? :cry:

[USSoccer]

Two points:

 

-The Cubs don't exactly have all that many attractive pieces with which to deal. Williamson, Walker and maybe Pierre. We're not talking about guys who are likely to fetch you a top prospect. I doubt Maddux approves any trade. Nevin might net an organizational prospect. Dempster probably nuked his trade value this week. If they decided to move Jones to NY, they might net something good, but that's about it. Moving Prior or Ramirez, aside from being a mistake IMO, would signal a massive rebuilding project, which leads me to my next point:

 

-Do you really trust Jim Hendry and this coaching staff to choose the prospects you'd get in a fire sale, and then develop said prospects properly? They have an abysmal track record. I don't trust Hendry to handle a rebuilding process, and I sure as heck don't trust Baker to oversee one, especially if he's a lame duck. I have no faith in Hendry's ability to evaluate talent properly, and for that reason, this team is best served dumping the fringe players, keeping the core, and trying to retool in the offseason through FA and the trade market. Despite Hendry's terrible track record the last 2 winters, I have more faith in his ability to retool than rebuild.

[Monco]

Hendrys trades the last 2 years tells me that he won't get the needed players .Obviously Dustys not the man to lead a roster of young players. The coaches are terrible.The minor leagues have very few position players. Even doing the right thing and rebuilding looks like it will fail the way things stand now.

[A New Era]

Blow it up! Enough of these high priced tweaks every year. Get some top prospects .Look down on the farm and there are very few. This 8 player core is really questionable. Looks more like 4 to me and 2 are setup guys.(Lee,Howry,Eyre,Marshall).

 

There's more core players than that, IMO.

 

Lee

Barret

Aram

Cedeno (and if he's not core, some low payroll team would give you something good)

Jones (possibly, if you've got a BIG bat in LF)

Zambrano

 

And I'd consider Marshall and Marmol to be 2 really good young picthers to go with next year.

 

IMO the positions that need to be addressed are. . .

 

2B

LF

CF

SP

SP

 

If you can successfully get some GOOD guys for those positions to go around the good players we have at the other positions. We don't need no blowup, or firesale.

 

We don't need no stinking blowup. 8)

 

 

Seriously though, we do need to blow up the front office. It's only going to get worse with MacPhail and Hendry guiding this ship.

 

I'll get the dynamite. 8)

[CuseCubFan69]

Two points:

 

-The Cubs don't exactly have all that many attractive pieces with which to deal. Williamson, Walker and maybe Pierre. We're not talking about guys who are likely to fetch you a top prospect. I doubt Maddux approves any trade. Nevin might net an organizational prospect. Dempster probably nuked his trade value this week. If they decided to move Jones to NY, they might net something good, but that's about it. Moving Prior or Ramirez, aside from being a mistake IMO, would signal a massive rebuilding project, which leads me to my next point:

 

-Do you really trust Jim Hendry and this coaching staff to choose the prospects you'd get in a fire sale, and then develop said prospects properly? They have an abysmal track record. I don't trust Hendry to handle a rebuilding process, and I sure as heck don't trust Baker to oversee one, especially if he's a lame duck. I have no faith in Hendry's ability to evaluate talent properly, and for that reason, this team is best served dumping the fringe players, keeping the core, and trying to retool in the offseason through FA and the trade market. Despite Hendry's terrible track record the last 2 winters, I have more faith in his ability to retool than rebuild.

 

I have no faith in any of these people and I look forward to Mr. Hendry over paying for the next Jones/Perez types. Not only that but to completely over bid (because he'll over react) on a very over rated free agent. I look forward to another crappy off season of limited thinking and absolutely no plan what so ever. Of course we'll have to wait for the 2006 World Series winner and see what pattern of success Mr. Hendry will follow. Chemistry...didn't work. Small ball...didn't work. 2006 winner? We'll see.

[bobbyd20]

If you don't trust Hendry to rebuild and gather the proper prospects necessary to help the Cubs down the road, then he needs to be gone.

 

The strategic plan shouldn't change because you can't trust the people in charge to execute it. If this is the case, the leadership needs to go.

[CuseCubFan69]

If you don't trust Hendry to rebuild and gather the proper prospects necessary to help the Cubs down the road, then he needs to be gone.

 

The strategic plan shouldn't change because you can't trust the people in charge to execute it. If this is the case, the leadership needs to go.

 

I agree bobbyd. I don't trust them and this is after putting my faith in Hendry for his whole tenure. IMO....He just does not know how to build a winning baseball team and I'd like to see him proactive but my faith has been shaken way too much for me to believe he'd do it the right way. I would like to see a change and let them dimantle this team the way they see fit and not have to pick up any more of the MacPhail/Hendry mess.

[cubfan1955]

If you don't trust Hendry to rebuild and gather the proper prospects necessary to help the Cubs down the road, then he needs to be gone.

 

The strategic plan shouldn't change because you can't trust the people in charge to execute it. If this is the case, the leadership needs to go.

 

I agree bobbyd. I don't trust them and this is after putting my faith in Hendry for his whole tenure. IMO....He just does not know how to build a winning baseball team and I'd like to see him proactive but my faith has been shaken way too much for me to believe he'd do it the right way. I would like to see a change and let them dimantle this team the way they see fit and not have to pick up any more of the MacPhail/Hendry mess.

Agreed. I wonder what Dallas Green is up to these days? :)