we have no value!

[neely crenshaw]

we have discussed a fire sale and who we should move and who we should keep. th eproblem i see is that we have no one that anyone really wants. we have some players that people will take. we have some players that people may send a prospect for but we have very few that we can trade to get better players or to package in order to fill growing needs.

Lee, Zambrano and Marshall should not be touched. if we were a bit closer to winning the series i could deal marshall but we are rebuilding- actually i'd call it building since we haven't really been good enough to rebuild

 

pierre...he will go, he will not get us even 1 prospect near the caliber of the ones we gave up unless he gets red hot. he is more valuable because at the deadline he will be a 2 month rental that the team can drop if they want after the season. perfect to fill a hole or injury

jones..no, no one will take him unless we pay a huge chunk. he is overpaid and too long a deal to go anywhere this year.

cedeno should only be included if a top flite ss is involved.

barrett could get us a top prospect or young player especially if a serious contender loses a catcher

aram could help a contender and is one player that might get us a ready/near ready prospect.

wood could be a rental but no one give us much more than a very young prospect. he is expensive and a free agent. if he comes on value goes up but trading a free agent to be at the deadline does get you as much value

prior..would have to get back to majors and show velocity and toughness. he is worth very little right now.

we should not touch the bullpen. we want/need anyone that we could trade and no one would want for the ohmans and weurtz' of the world

hill has lost any value. he is a lefty so someone would take him but we would not get a aaa pitcher back.

rusch is basically the same..just probably gte you less because he costs more and is finished getting better no upside.

williams, guzman, brownlee..some value but we could not get a top prospect for anyone but maybe guzman. so we would be trading our aaa staff for a single or double a staff.

i love murton but who could we get for him? maybe we could get a high priced player that someone wants to dump like aram but that may be tough to duplicate.

 

we are seriously stuck. we do not have enough good position players to do a marlins and we can not trade our vets for anything near being ready

guys like neifi,hairston and bynum would not get us anything except maybe someone's expensive disgruntled, injury prone player. (like sosa)

we seriously may be looking at 3-5 years before we dig out of this mess.

[Jehrico]

I was, and still am, against the Jones signing as anyone else on this board. However, I don't know if I'd agree he has no value. He's got decent speed (if only he weren't an imbecile on the basepaths), has good defense, and, after that horrible 0-fer start, has hit pretty good. Despite the horrible start, he's up to .280 and rising. His cold start could be attributed to adjusting to the new league and team (okay, maybe I'm trying to hype his value, as if it would actually help us or trade him or something...).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Strange as it sounds, Pierre still has value. Nobody will part with as much as we did to get him, but he does have value.

Jones has a little bit

Walker

Maddux

Aramis

Williamson

[Cubzfan64]

I've been saying the same things you said neely since we started playing crappy.

 

All those folks who suggest ridiculous trades fail to put themselves in the other GM's shoes. There isn't any GM out there who would want or give up any talent for most of our castoffs.

 

We made a serious yet typical Cub mistake when Rusch has his successful season(s) with us and we once again believed that somehow all of his past history of mediocre pitching and giving up lots of HR's was behind him finally - we lost the window of opportunity to trade him when his value was higher for something worthwhile. We lost those same opportunities with guys like CPatt, Rich Hill, Matt Clement, and we're doing it again in my opinion with Dempster and might be overestimating Marshall as well.

 

The ONLY players an opposing GM would be willing to give up impact talent for are probably Barrett, Lee, Zambrano, Ramirez, and maybe Howry or Eyre since decent set up men are so hard to find.

 

They may not agree to a trade, but if I were them I'd want to get off this sickening ride asap so I'd be approaching guys like Wood and Maddux as well since pitching is always in short supply and needed by contenders.

 

If we don't start rebuilding this team and "pretend" we're still just a move or two away from winning it all, the Cubs will continue floundering year after year. I'm thoroughly disgusted with some of our guys who just aren't stepping up and playing better, but I'm way more disgusted with the organization's lack of stressing plate discipline - aggressiveness is wonderful, but the key is to be aggressive within the strikezone and learning the ability to swing at the pitch you've forced the pitcher to throw by being disciplined.

 

The 2006 Cubs are an absolute mess and I see and hear nothing that gives me much hope for this year. Personally I'd like to see Hendry and Baker go because I'm afraid if that doesn't happen we'll continue to get more of the same type of players and continue to get more of what we've seen the last few years.

[CubinNY]

I've been saying the same things you said neely since we started playing crappy.

 

All those folks who suggest ridiculous trades fail to put themselves in the other GM's shoes. There isn't any GM out there who would want or give up any talent for most of our castoffs.

 

We made a serious yet typical Cub mistake when Rusch has his successful season(s) with us and we once again believed that somehow all of his past history of mediocre pitching and giving up lots of HR's was behind him finally - we lost the window of opportunity to trade him when his value was higher for something worthwhile. We lost those same opportunities with guys like CPatt, Rich Hill, Matt Clement, and we're doing it again in my opinion with Dempster and might be overestimating Marshall as well.

 

The ONLY players an opposing GM would be willing to give up impact talent for are probably Barrett, Lee, Zambrano, Ramirez, and maybe Howry or Eyre since decent set up men are so hard to find.

 

They may not agree to a trade, but if I were them I'd want to get off this sickening ride asap so I'd be approaching guys like Wood and Maddux as well since pitching is always in short supply and needed by contenders.

 

If we don't start rebuilding this team and "pretend" we're still just a move or two away from winning it all, the Cubs will continue floundering year after year. I'm thoroughly disgusted with some of our guys who just aren't stepping up and playing better, but I'm way more disgusted with the organization's lack of stressing plate discipline - aggressiveness is wonderful, but the key is to be aggressive within the strikezone and learning the ability to swing at the pitch you've forced the pitcher to throw by being disciplined.

 

The 2006 Cubs are an absolute mess and I see and hear nothing that gives me much hope for this year. Personally I'd like to see Hendry and Baker go because I'm afraid if that doesn't happen we'll continue to get more of the same type of players and continue to get more of what we've seen the last few years.

 

Everyting in life is relative. Player X's trade value is relative to any number of factors that can include among other things:

 

Salary

Need of other teams

Other player(s) traded with him

Timing

Player(s) from other team who are offered

 

Written another way, Freddy Bynum has trade value if he's traded for a low level prospect with no future and the Cubs pay all his salary. To say that this player or that player has no value is tottally false.

[USSoccer]

I would also argue that the Lee/Ramirez/Barrett/Walker/Zambrano core is a pretty good one that just needs to be surrounded with better talent and more depth.

 

Murton and Cedeno should be retained, as should Dempster.

 

Everyone else I would move if I felt I was getting a good value relative to the situation.

[Cubzfan64]

I've been saying the same things you said neely since we started playing crappy.

 

All those folks who suggest ridiculous trades fail to put themselves in the other GM's shoes. There isn't any GM out there who would want or give up any talent for most of our castoffs.

 

We made a serious yet typical Cub mistake when Rusch has his successful season(s) with us and we once again believed that somehow all of his past history of mediocre pitching and giving up lots of HR's was behind him finally - we lost the window of opportunity to trade him when his value was higher for something worthwhile. We lost those same opportunities with guys like CPatt, Rich Hill, Matt Clement, and we're doing it again in my opinion with Dempster and might be overestimating Marshall as well.

 

The ONLY players an opposing GM would be willing to give up impact talent for are probably Barrett, Lee, Zambrano, Ramirez, and maybe Howry or Eyre since decent set up men are so hard to find.

 

They may not agree to a trade, but if I were them I'd want to get off this sickening ride asap so I'd be approaching guys like Wood and Maddux as well since pitching is always in short supply and needed by contenders.

 

If we don't start rebuilding this team and "pretend" we're still just a move or two away from winning it all, the Cubs will continue floundering year after year. I'm thoroughly disgusted with some of our guys who just aren't stepping up and playing better, but I'm way more disgusted with the organization's lack of stressing plate discipline - aggressiveness is wonderful, but the key is to be aggressive within the strikezone and learning the ability to swing at the pitch you've forced the pitcher to throw by being disciplined.

 

The 2006 Cubs are an absolute mess and I see and hear nothing that gives me much hope for this year. Personally I'd like to see Hendry and Baker go because I'm afraid if that doesn't happen we'll continue to get more of the same type of players and continue to get more of what we've seen the last few years.

 

Everyting in life is relative. Player X's trade value is relative to any number of factors that can include among other things:

 

Salary

Need of other teams

Other player(s) traded with him

Timing

Player(s) from other team who are offered

 

Written another way, Freddy Bynum has trade value if he's traded for a low level prospect with no future and the Cubs pay all his salary. To say that this player or that player has no value is tottally false.

 

Where did I say any of our players have "no" value? I totally agree with what you said and I'm sure we could find GM's to take all of our guys for the right price, the problem is that isn't a way to put together a contending team - always trading from a defensive position and getting less in return than what we give away is a sure way to fail.

 

All I was trying to say is that we have a very limited # of guys who could bring us back legitimate talent in return should they be traded. We're in a very very bad position right now!

[Hacking Out Machine]

Arizona is currently leading their division and are trotting out Juan Cruz and Claudio Vargas in their rotation. Both have done ok, but they might feel it's a matter of time until things catch up with them there. I would be very surprised if they weren't very interested in Maddux. They have probably the best system in MLB in terms of premium talent, and some redundancy in the system. This would be a good match for the Cubs, as long as Hendry doesn't ask for Orlando Hudson or Russ Ortiz in return.

 

I think most of the bullpen arms would generate interest, especially Williamson/Eyre/Howry. We might as well cut bait with the high priced guys now, rather than cursing them in two years when they're over the hill and still on the books for ridiculous money.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think the Cubs do have players that could have value as the trading deadline approaches.

 

There will be a number of factors coming into play that could increase the value of the Cubs' players. The first is the number of teams who believe they are in contention. If 20 teams believe they have a chance, then that means there are only 20 selllers. A situation like that could benefit the Cubs.

 

1. Wood- If Wood is willing to waive his no-trade clause and regains his velocity, cost or not, teams will be trying to get him. He's the type of pitcher that could carry a team through the postseason. He could net a top prospect if traded to the right team.

 

2. Maddux- Maddux also could fetch a decent prospect for a team looking for an experienced pitcher.

 

3. Williamson- Williamson will bring a mid-range prospect if shopped to the right team.

 

4. Walker also could be a valueable trading chip to a team looking for a lefthanded bat.

[TheDude]

For what it is worth, Cubs players are popping up all over the rumor mill. ESPN Insider's summary page for this morning lists three Cubs (Pierre, Walker, and Williamson) as drawing interest/rumor for trade deadline movement.

 

The Cubs do certainly have value.