Jim: Please ignore Mike Kiley

[Tracer Bullet]

As much as I'd love to see them deal Pierre for anyone of value, I just can't get past his idea of keeping Jones and dealing Murton:

 

Who's safe on the roster? Put first baseman Derrek Lee, third baseman Aramis Ramirez, right fielder Jacque Jones and shortstop Ronny Cedeno on that list. They are signed for 2007 and seem certain to return.

 

If the Cubs deal Pierre, prospect Felix Pie can begin his indoctrination into the major leagues. But if you are projecting Pie in center and Jones in right as two-thirds of the Cubs' '07 outfield, Matt Murton can't be the left fielder. As promising as Murton has looked at times, he hasn't shown enough power to justify bringing him back alongside those two. The Cubs will have to look for a veteran presence with proven power numbers, a younger version of Moises Alou.

 

link

 

EDIT: I noticed in Bruce's article today, that he also suggests dealing Murton. I think Murton could be a very good hitter in the near future (with, you know, some coaching) and he has very little trade value now. So why deal him?

[Balsa]

I have no idea. Maybe because they have a 3 year albatross around their necks called Jacque Jones?

 

Simply put, I think they were thinking he would develop power faster. I think he should be given the rest of the season.

[Bruce Miles]

My feeling in writing the story I did was that the Cubs need an Adam Dunn-type player (even though they can't get the real thing). You're stuck with Jones. Pie will play center. You need some power from left. Nobody likes Murton more than I do, but I don't know if it's going to happen for him here the way we'd like it to happen. As I wrote (and I haven't seen Kiley's story), he'd pan out for somebody else, given the Cubs' luck.

[Guest]

I think the point is that the Cubs are going to need to improve the power from the OF in 2007 if they expect to compete. As much as we'd like to trade Jones to get the offensive boost, that's not likely to happen. CF is basically Pie's for the next couple years. That leaves LF as the place to change.

 

I'd really like to fire the staff at the major league level and let Murton & Cedeno work with Von Joshua at the major league level for the rest of the year to see what they could do, though. I think Murton has enough power in his stroke, he just doesn't get enough loft on the ball. That's something that can be fixed. Given his other attributes at the plate, Murton could be a star if he could make that one change.

[JC]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't Carlos Lee be a FA in 07? If so, I see the Cubs backing up the money truck and needing to open LF. However, that shouldn't preclude a competent GM from looking into moving Jones. God knows the Cubs have shown a willingness to eat salary (Sosa, Hawkins). Jones' departure ought to be seriously explored.

[Tracer Bullet]

My feeling in writing the story I did was that the Cubs need an Adam Dunn-type player (even though they can't get the real thing). You're stuck with Jones. Pie will play center. You need some power from left. Nobody likes Murton more than I do, but I don't know if it's going to happen for him here the way we'd like it to happen. As I wrote (and I haven't seen Kiley's story), he'd pan out for somebody else, given the Cubs' luck.

 

Your ideas were similar in that we need power from left, so we should trade Murton. Yours seemed to be more of a "he'll probably be a good hitter for someone else" while Kiley's was more "he's not the power hitter we need - get rid of him" - at least that's the vibe I got.

 

I understand that we need to upgrade the OF. And that's one problem with extending JH. If we had a new GM, they may realize that JJ isn't a great hitter in RF, but he's hit well the last few week. He's a guy we might be able to trade away while he's still hitting well and then go find that power bat to take his place. Murton seems to be the one young guy that has any plate discipline at all. I just hate to give that away (esp since his trade value is almost 0 right now, what with the .264 BA and .368 SLG).

 

I'd like to give him more than 100 ML games over two seasons to prove that he has no power.

[Wild_Cubs04]

My feeling in writing the story I did was that the Cubs need an Adam Dunn-type player (even though they can't get the real thing). You're stuck with Jones. Pie will play center. You need some power from left. Nobody likes Murton more than I do, but I don't know if it's going to happen for him here the way we'd like it to happen. As I wrote (and I haven't seen Kiley's story), he'd pan out for somebody else, given the Cubs' luck.

 

Your ideas were similar in that we need power from left, so we should trade Murton. Yours seemed to be more of a "he'll probably be a good hitter for someone else" while Kiley's was more "he's not the power hitter we need - get rid of him" - at least that's the vibe I got.

 

I understand that we need to upgrade the OF. And that's one problem with extending JH. If we had a new GM, they may realize that JJ isn't a great hitter in RF, but he's hit well the last few week. He's a guy we might be able to trade away while he's still hitting well and then go find that power bat to take his place. Murton seems to be the one young guy that has any plate discipline at all. I just hate to give that away (esp since his trade value is almost 0 right now, what with the .264 BA and .368 SLG).

 

I'd like to give him more than 100 ML games over two seasons to prove that he has no power.

 

And a decent Hitting/Coaching staff.

[CubsInNC]

Personally, I would wait until the offseason to trade Murton, if at all.

 

If Pie doesn't progress enough at AAA, working with Von Joshua, to be an instant success (read: non-failure), I don't want him up here in CF, at the start of next year. If he's focused, gets the K/BB ratio better, sure, bring him up. And depending on who you get in LF, you can trade Murton or platoon him in right.

 

If Pie doesn't progress as I desire, then you're looking at (potentially) Jones in CF, and having to find a RF and a LF.

[CUBZ99]

From Bruce's article this morning:

 

Left fielder Matt Murton. Now here’s an eye-opener. Murton is a nice pure hitter, but he isn’t providing much power from a power spot in left field. True, Murton is an on-base percentage guy, but the Cubs don’t seem to know this stat exists.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?id=193151

[Backtobanks]

Am I missing something? Why does everyone insist that the Cubs are stuck with Jones for 3 years? Does he have a no-trade contract? I've read this at least 3 dozen times and I've reponded many times. Trading Jones should not be a problem with 2 years and $10 million owed on his contract, especially if the Cubs eat $1 -2 million per year. I can't believe that teams wouldn't be interested in Jones for 2 years @ say $7 million. Of course, that's assuming the Cubs want to trade him. Moving him to CF and ditching Pierre or getting a big bat and having a platoon of Murton/Jones are looking like possibilities.

[Tracer Bullet]

Am I missing something? Why does everyone insist that the Cubs are stuck with Jones for 3 years? Does he have a no-trade contract? I've read this at least 3 dozen times and I've reponded many times. Trading Jones should not be a problem with 2 years and $10 million owed on his contract, especially if the Cubs eat $1 -2 million per year. I can't believe that teams wouldn't be interested in Jones for 2 years @ say $7 million. Of course, that's assuming the Cubs want to trade him. Moving him to CF and ditching Pierre or getting a big bat and having a platoon of Murton/Jones are looking like possibilities.

 

I totally agree. But when I see people say that we're stuck with Jones for 3 years, I think they're just being realistic. JH targeted Jones in the off-season. He thinks he'll be a good player here. So he's not going to trade him, at least not this year and maybe not next year. So we're "stuck" in the sense that our GM (who just got extended) doesn't seem to want to trade Jones.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

From Bruce's article this morning:

 

Left fielder Matt Murton. Now here’s an eye-opener. Murton is a nice pure hitter, but he isn’t providing much power from a power spot in left field. True, Murton is an on-base percentage guy, but the Cubs don’t seem to know this stat exists.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?id=193151

 

Oh snap! Kudos, Bruce! Hammer the point home.

[goonys evil twin]

Am I missing something? Why does everyone insist that the Cubs are stuck with Jones for 3 years? Does he have a no-trade contract? I've read this at least 3 dozen times and I've reponded many times. Trading Jones should not be a problem with 2 years and $10 million owed on his contract, especially if the Cubs eat $1 -2 million per year. I can't believe that teams wouldn't be interested in Jones for 2 years @ say $7 million. Of course, that's assuming the Cubs want to trade him. Moving him to CF and ditching Pierre or getting a big bat and having a platoon of Murton/Jones are looking like possibilities.

 

You keep saying that, and you keep ignoring the replies.

 

Jim Hendry wanted Jones. He's exactly the type of player Hendry looks for. Hendry is signed through 2008.

The Cubs are stuck with Jones.

 

If they were smart enough to clean house, then a new GM might be able to come in and move him. But that's not likely, so the slim chance of dealing Jones is practically zero.

 

People say the Cubs are stuck with Jones because people realize how the Cubs work.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd deal Murton in a deal for a young hitting stud, or if I had a series of deals lined up where a young hitting stud was coming back. Outside of that scenario, there's no way you can justify trading your only young hitter with a semblence of plate discipline.

[RynoRules]

I'd deal Murton in a deal for a young hitting stud, or if I had a series of deals lined up where a young hitting stud was coming back. Outside of that scenario, there's no way you can justify trading your only young hitter with a semblence of plate discipline.

 

Agreed. In a deal for Dunn or Cabrera, I'd trade him.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'd deal Murton in a deal for a young hitting stud, or if I had a series of deals lined up where a young hitting stud was coming back. Outside of that scenario, there's no way you can justify trading your only young hitter with a semblence of plate discipline.

 

I think Murton would look good in a Marlins uniform with that one guy coming here. Oh, what the heck is that kid's name? The one who wears #24 for them.

[CubsBullsBears]

How about an OF of Pie in center, el horso in RF, and Murton in LF in 2007. Lee can play RF, it's just Ordonez w/ the Sox and Favre's twin (Jenkins) w/ the Brewers have better arms. Lee can play RF, though.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd deal Murton in a deal for a young hitting stud, or if I had a series of deals lined up where a young hitting stud was coming back. Outside of that scenario, there's no way you can justify trading your only young hitter with a semblence of plate discipline.

 

I think Murton would look good in a Marlins uniform with that one guy coming here. Oh, what the heck is that kid's name? The one who wears #24 for them.

 

I would have to know this kid's time in the 40 yard dash before I consider whoever he is.

[JeffH]

How about an OF of Pie in center, el horso in RF, and Murton in LF in 2007. Lee can play RF, it's just Ordonez w/ the Sox and Favre's twin (Jenkins) w/ the Brewers have better arms. Lee can play RF, though.

 

Man, Carlos Lee would be a brutal RF.

[CubsBullsBears]

How about an OF of Pie in center, el horso in RF, and Murton in LF in 2007. Lee can play RF, it's just Ordonez w/ the Sox and Favre's twin (Jenkins) w/ the Brewers have better arms. Lee can play RF, though.

 

Man, Carlos Lee would be a brutal RF.

He's said he wants to play for the Cubs so he can stick it to the White Sox. He still has a grudge w/ Ozzie, and I bet his form of sticking it to them will be what he did to Todd Walker last year

[goonys evil twin]

How about an OF of Pie in center, el horso in RF, and Murton in LF in 2007. Lee can play RF, it's just Ordonez w/ the Sox and Favre's twin (Jenkins) w/ the Brewers have better arms. Lee can play RF, though.

 

Man, Carlos Lee would be a brutal RF.

 

I would rather Murton play RF than Lee. You could field a pretty strong OF with Lee, Pie, Jones/Murton platoon.

[Tracer Bullet]

I'd deal Murton in a deal for a young hitting stud, or if I had a series of deals lined up where a young hitting stud was coming back. Outside of that scenario, there's no way you can justify trading your only young hitter with a semblence of plate discipline.

 

Agreed. In a deal for Dunn or Cabrera, I'd trade him.

 

Of course, most people would gladly give up Murton for either of those guys. But if we're being realistic - neither of those is going to happen. The Reds aren't going to trade Dunn this year unless they fall way out of the race in the next 2 months. And the Cubs will be outbid for Cabrera.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

We could trade for Abreu and move Jones to CF. Jones' production wouldn't be horribly bad for CF.

[soapy]

I'm not against trading Murton in the right deal at all. If he can be packaged to get an impact bat, by all means go for it. I wouldn't necessary be anxious to trade him at all though. He's so cheap right now, and still could develope a lot more power. If nothing else, go after Carlos Lee (or whoever) for LF and platoon Murton and Jones in RF. I really don't see the Cubs trading Jones, though I'd be all for it. I think Hendry wants Jones.

 

Murton would be a great fourth outfielder or platoon partner for Jones. He's so cheap, I'd hate to trade him unless it was to upgrade significantly at that position (LF).

[Tracer Bullet]

We could trade for Abreu and move Jones to CF. Jones' production wouldn't be horribly bad for CF.

 

Pierre moves to bat boy?