Barrett-Roberts Exchange

[scs_paradise]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

[PujolsPower]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

I didn't see the play so I am not sure if Roberts was close to being thrown out, but I definitely think that stealing 3rd makes sense in that situation if you get a great jump and have good speed. You can score on a passed ball or an infield single, and you might score on the play if the catcher makes a bad throw to third.

[OnTheBeach]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

Pad your stats? Do you know anything about Dave Roberts as a player? He's not a "pad your stats" kind of guy. As far as "risking" geting thrown out, apparently there was little risk. It WAS a very smart baseball play with what transpired with the Padres pitching, Williams out and having to use relievers. Anything that can increase the chance for one run that might make the difference in a game is the right move. The Padres had a shaky (so far this season) call up, Jon Adkins in the bullpen, and were later using Sweeney after having used Linebrink and Embree (LOOGY pretty much) the previous game.

 

One a side note to all posters above, it was a 5-2 lead, not a "four run lead." With Brazelton in the bullpen (he's since been sent down), no lead was safe.

Edited May 13, 2006 by OnTheBeach

[scs_paradise]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

I didn't see the play so I am not sure if Roberts was close to being thrown out, but I definitely think that stealing 3rd makes sense in that situation if you get a great jump and have good speed. You can score on a passed ball or an infield single, and you might score on the play if the catcher makes a bad throw to third.

 

all good points and I would agree if you are in a situation where you are down a run or tied or up a run, but I think they were up 3 or 4 runs at that point. plus you have the heart of your lineup coming up with cameron, giles and piazza. I just wouldn't steal third in that case. All in all, barrett should have had him, a good throw would have nailed roberts, so I'm sure that was another frustration barrett was releasing in the incident.

[scs_paradise]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

Pad your stats? Do you know anything about Dave Roberts as a player? He's not a "pad your stats" kind of guy. As far as "risking" geting thrown out, apparently there was little risk. It WAS a very smart baseball play with what transpired with the Padres pitching, Williams out and having to use relievers. Anything that can increase the chance for one run that might make the difference in a game is the right move. The Padres had a shaky (so far this season) call up, Jon Adkins in the bullpen, and were later using Sweeney after having used Linebrink and Embree (LOOGY pretty much) the previous game.

 

stealing second in that situation I agree with, stealing third I think is more gray area than you are giving it credit for. With the heart of your lineup coming up, you are in scoring position, if you want to be sure to extend the inning by scoring, you let your big guys hit. And yes I'm am very familiar with Roberts, as is Barrett, which is why it surprises me when he bunted and stole second in a blow out last week, and then stole third in a play that I still don't think is smart baseball in that situation.

[FergieJ31]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

I didn't see the play so I am not sure if Roberts was close to being thrown out, but I definitely think that stealing 3rd makes sense in that situation if you get a great jump and have good speed. You can score on a passed ball or an infield single, and you might score on the play if the catcher makes a bad throw to third.

 

A lot of good basestealers say that stealing third is easier than stealing second, especially if the defense is sloppy. Vince Coleman used to say that all the time.

 

There were 2 outs, true, but if that was the basis of Barrett's beef -- that Roberts is a bonehead for risking a 3rd out at 3rd after Roberts stole 6 bases in 4 games vs the Cubs -- then that's pretty sad. I don't think that was it; I think the SD broadcasters were right. You almost would rather see Barrett get pissed at Neifi for letting Roberts reach 2nd base.

[scs_paradise]

As was speculated on the broadcast, some of that may have been that Roberts bunted for a single late in a game in SD against the Cubs when the Padres already had a 4-run lead and then stole second. His stealing third in this game likely was icing on the cake to Barrett and Barrett likely told him so.

 

I think the SD broadcasters were right. Roberts has run at will on the Cubs, 6 SB in the past week.

 

I tend to agree with the thought that emotion without execution is pretty hollow. I don't think Roberts stealing 3rd with a 3-run lead yesterday was out of line at all. I've got a lotta man-love for Michael, don't get me wrong, but he simply looked like a sore loser by jawing at Roberts.

 

like I said, the steal made no sense other than to pad your stats. there were two outs IIRC, so on any basehit he scores from either second or third. why risk getting thrown out unless you are trying to make the other team look bad. Its not even a smart baseball play in my opinion.

 

I didn't see the play so I am not sure if Roberts was close to being thrown out, but I definitely think that stealing 3rd makes sense in that situation if you get a great jump and have good speed. You can score on a passed ball or an infield single, and you might score on the play if the catcher makes a bad throw to third.

 

A lot of good basestealers say that stealing third is easier than stealing second, especially if the defense is sloppy. Vince Coleman used to say that all the time.

 

There were 2 outs, true, but if that was the basis of Barrett's beef -- that Roberts is a bonehead for risking a 3rd out at 3rd after Roberts stole 6 bases in 4 games vs the Cubs -- then that's pretty sad. I don't think that was it; I think the SD broadcasters were right. You almost would rather see Barrett get pissed at Neifi for letting Roberts reach 2nd base.

 

there are alot of other things I would love to see barrett pissed at neifi for! :P

[OnTheBeach]

all good points and I would agree if you are in a situation where you are down a run or tied or up a run, but I think they were up 3 or 4 runs at that point. plus you have the heart of your lineup coming up with cameron, giles and piazza. I just wouldn't steal third in that case. All in all, barrett should have had him, a good throw would have nailed roberts, so I'm sure that was another frustration barrett was releasing in the incident.

 

They were up 3 RUNS at that point, with no certaintly they'd be able to keep that lead. here's how the inning wend down.

 

San Diego 3, Chi Cubs 2

 

Top 5th: San Diego

- V. Castilla singled to right

- A. Gonzalez singled to center, V. Castilla to second, V. Castilla to third, A. Gonzalez to second on shortstop R. Cedeno's throwing error

- J. Barfield fouled out to first

- E. Young hit for B. Sweeney

- B. Sweeney walked

- D. Roberts grounded into fielder's choice, V. Castilla scored, A. Gonzalez to third, E. Young out at second, A. Gonzalez scored, D. Roberts to second on second baseman N. Perez's throwing error

- D. Roberts stole third

- M. Cameron doubled to deep left center, D. Roberts scored

- B. Giles singled to center, M. Cameron scored

- S. Williamson relieved G. Rusch

- M. Piazza singled to right, B. Giles to second

- K. Greene safe at first on left fielder M. Murton's fielding error, B. Giles scored, M. Piazza to third, K. Greene to second

- V. Castilla grounded out to first

[scs_paradise]

all good points and I would agree if you are in a situation where you are down a run or tied or up a run, but I think they were up 3 or 4 runs at that point. plus you have the heart of your lineup coming up with cameron, giles and piazza. I just wouldn't steal third in that case. All in all, barrett should have had him, a good throw would have nailed roberts, so I'm sure that was another frustration barrett was releasing in the incident.

 

They were up 3 RUNS at that point, with no certaintly they'd be able to keep that lead. here's how the inning wend down.

 

San Diego 3, Chi Cubs 2

 

Top 5th: San Diego

- V. Castilla singled to right

- A. Gonzalez singled to center, V. Castilla to second, V. Castilla to third, A. Gonzalez to second on shortstop R. Cedeno's throwing error

- J. Barfield fouled out to first

- E. Young hit for B. Sweeney

- B. Sweeney walked

- D. Roberts grounded into fielder's choice, V. Castilla scored, A. Gonzalez to third, E. Young out at second, A. Gonzalez scored, D. Roberts to second on second baseman N. Perez's throwing error

- D. Roberts stole third

- M. Cameron doubled to deep left center, D. Roberts scored

- B. Giles singled to center, M. Cameron scored

- S. Williamson relieved G. Rusch

- M. Piazza singled to right, B. Giles to second

- K. Greene safe at first on left fielder M. Murton's fielding error, B. Giles scored, M. Piazza to third, K. Greene to second

- V. Castilla grounded out to first

 

basically what you just pointed out was that roberts risked 3 SD runs for a meaningless stolen base, I know that is with 20/20 hindsight.

 

does anyone have any stats on the difference in scoring percentage with a runner on second with two outs vs. a runner on third with two outs? I would be willing to wager that the difference is not worth the risk of stealing third. maybe I'm wrong, but like someone said, if he gets a great jump I suppose, yet he still would have been out with a good throw IMO.

[NCCubFan]

I believe the Oswalt thing was in 2004, not 2005.

It was. That's the incident some people point to as starting the Cubs' collapse when they were leading the Wild Card race.

[YearofDaCubs]

Barrett got pissed because Roberts was padding his stats against the Cubs. It's that simple.

[cubfan1955]

It was. That's the incident some people point to as starting the Cubs' collapse when they were leading the Wild Card race.

So is yesterdays game the start of the 2006 collapse? :)

 

I've noticed the only time Barrett confronts someone is when he has his full catchers battle gear on. 8)

[BigbadB]

Barrett got pissed because Roberts was padding his stats against the Cubs. It's that simple.

 

Barrett should be getting pissed at the Cubs inability to assemble a decent team, not what the other team is doing.

 

When you have a catcher that can't throw anyone out, you run on him. You exploit their weakness. Last time I looked, a 3 run homer only takes one swing of the bat. Putting yourself in the position to score on an infield single, past ball, wild pitch, balk, a hard hit line drive single to an outfielder, etc.. is good baseball in many situations. Not only does Barrett have a poor success rate at gunning out runners, but he lets a lot of balls get past him. If the score was 10-0 or 14-2 or some other unreachable score, then yes, Roberts could be accused of padding stats.

 

There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Roberts did. If the pitcher wasn't holding him on 2nd, and he had a a good jump, why not take 3rd?

[OnTheBeach]

basically what you just pointed out was that roberts risked 3 SD runs for a meaningless stolen base, I know that is with 20/20 hindsight.

 

does anyone have any stats on the difference in scoring percentage with a runner on second with two outs vs. a runner on third with two outs? I would be willing to wager that the difference is not worth the risk of stealing third. maybe I'm wrong, but like someone said, if he gets a great jump I suppose, yet he still would have been out with a good throw IMO.

 

I heard a more lengthy interview with Roberts's rationale was that with a wild pitch or one too far out he'd be able to score from third. You can't do that from second, usually.

[FergieJ31]

Barrett got pissed because Roberts was padding his stats against the Cubs. It's that simple.

 

The Pads were only up by three in the 5th. That's not padding stats, that's playing hard and taking what we're giving to win a game. If the Pads were slaughtering the Cubs I could understand Michael taking issue, but the game wasn't out of hand at that point.

[cbbryan]

I really like Barrett, but he should use the same attitude toward some of his teammates.

[scs_paradise]

basically what you just pointed out was that roberts risked 3 SD runs for a meaningless stolen base, I know that is with 20/20 hindsight.

 

does anyone have any stats on the difference in scoring percentage with a runner on second with two outs vs. a runner on third with two outs? I would be willing to wager that the difference is not worth the risk of stealing third. maybe I'm wrong, but like someone said, if he gets a great jump I suppose, yet he still would have been out with a good throw IMO.

 

I heard a more lengthy interview with Roberts's rationale was that with a wild pitch or one too far out he'd be able to score from third. You can't do that from second, usually.

 

I agree, perhaps it was the straw that broke the camel's back....it wasn't the hay stack but it was the breaking point.

[JC]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

[RynoRules]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

 

I really don't get what you have agianst what he has done or is doing. Everytime he is quoted in the paper he makes it clear that losing makes him sick, that he and his mates are to blame, and that the fans have every right to be peeved. What is wrong with this?

[JC]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

 

I really don't get what you have agianst what he has done or is doing. Everytime he is quoted in the paper he makes it clear that losing makes him sick, that he and his mates are to blame, and that the fans have every right to be peeved. What is wrong with this?

 

Don't overreact to everything I type for Pete's sake.

[RynoRules]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

 

I really don't get what you have agianst what he has done or is doing. Everytime he is quoted in the paper he makes it clear that losing makes him sick, that he and his mates are to blame, and that the fans have every right to be peeved. What is wrong with this?

 

Don't overreact to everything I type for Pete's sake.

 

I don't think I am overeacting. How come I am overreacting if I have an opinion that differs from yours? You are critical of him - what is your solution? How should he act?

[Andy]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

 

I really don't get what you have agianst what he has done or is doing. Everytime he is quoted in the paper he makes it clear that losing makes him sick, that he and his mates are to blame, and that the fans have every right to be peeved. What is wrong with this?

I agree. Barrett is a guy that knows what he's talking about, and this team would do well to listen to him and Walker more often.

[LoneStarCubFan]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Barrett did in either the Roberts or Oswalt situations.

 

The Astros didn't earn the wildcard in 2004 because Michael Barrett got in Roy Oswalt's face after Oswalt deliberately drilled him. The Astros earned the Wildcard because the Cubs were a bunch of choking dogs who couldn't put away two craptacular teams the last week of the season.

 

If Juan Pierre, or any other Cub, had done something similar to what Roberts did to a team struggling like the Cubs are he most likely would have gone in the dirt on the first pitch of his next at-bat. That's baseball.

 

It'd be nice if we had a few more guys who, at least once in awhile, didn't keep their emotions in check.

[Chocolate Milk]

Barrett seems more and more like a guy trying too hard to be a leader.

 

I really don't get what you have agianst what he has done or is doing. Everytime he is quoted in the paper he makes it clear that losing makes him sick, that he and his mates are to blame, and that the fans have every right to be peeved. What is wrong with this?

 

Don't overreact to everything I type for Pete's sake.

 

Don't type stuff on a message board and expect people not to react to it.

[badgercub]

I like what Barrett did and I think too much is being put on him for the stolen bases. He is not the best at throwing out runners, but most of the time I think baserunners are stealing off of our pitchers and not off of Barrett. If your staff is not good at holding runners on and have slow delieveries to the plate, there is not much the catcher can do. But I do not absolve Barrett for some of his airmailed throws into centerfield, just saying I think the pitching staff has as much to do with the amount of SB as does Barrett.