Can trading Pie or Guzman be justified?

[rjchapma]

yeah well I agree with the last guy Pie I can wait on but we need a bat and if you are willing to just watch another season go down in flames are you are crazy.

[badgercub]

How much value does Rich Hill even have? I think so far in the Major Leagues he has been exposed as a one pitch pitcher. He has a good curve ball, but when major leaguers can just sit on it, it really loses a lot of it's effectiveness. His minor league numbers look great because for the most part those guys can't hit a curve, otherwise they'd be in the Majors.

[RyCubsFan]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

 

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery.

 

Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me:

 

Marshall

Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's

 

 

Guzman

Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's

Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's

Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's

 

So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good.

[larhur]

I agree, for the right deal anyone on the Cubs can be had but please don't give anyone away just to make a deal, Just get rid of Pierre and Jones

[RyCubsFan]

I agree, for the right deal anyone on the Cubs can be had but please don't give anyone away just to make a deal, Just get rid of Pierre and Jones

 

Bravo to the bolded part.

[snoodmonger]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

 

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery.

 

Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me:

 

Marshall

Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's

 

 

Guzman

Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's

Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's

Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's

 

So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good.

 

good post

[NCCubFan]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

So when the Cubs had a rookie pitcher who went 6-14 with a 5.61 ERA, and got sent down once during the year, the Cubs obviously should have given up on him. Right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That pitcher is Greg Maddux.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

 

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery.

 

Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me:

 

Marshall

Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's

 

 

Guzman

Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's

Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's

Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's

 

So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good.

 

good post

 

What he said....

 

----------

 

I like the fact that in 2007---barring injuries (I know the Cubs won't be looking for veteran starters in the offseason, or I hope they don't) the Cubs rotation could feature 4 homegrown, extremely talented pitchers. I mean Prior/Z/Guzman/Marshall :D would be a fantastic rotation. The question will be health....but I fully believe Prior is getting awfully close to returning to full strength.

 

And no, I don't endorse bringing back Maddux...not that I like him, but Boras is going to ask for more then Maddux is worth at this stage, and I rather have the two picks.

[Backtobanks]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

 

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery.

 

Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me:

 

Marshall

Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's

 

 

Guzman

Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's

Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's

Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's

 

So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good.

 

I love the fact that the Cubs seem to be stocking up on young pitchers with potential. The problem is that if the Cubs are going to start solving their offensive problems and their lack of good young position players they are going to have to trade some of the young pitching. It doesn't do much good if you have 6-7 major league starters and you can't score more than one run a game.

[rjchapma]

Well with your guys logic we will be in 5th place at the end of the year. We need pop and we dont have it and unless Aramis starts on a tear we are in trouble. I dont care if Guzman ends up being a pretty good pitcher if we get someone good in return for him. Thats all im saying. I want to have a bat that actually is a threat to other teams.

[beowulf28]

Well with your guys logic we will be in 5th place at the end of the year. We need pop and we dont have it and unless Aramis starts on a tear we are in trouble. I dont care if Guzman ends up being a pretty good pitcher if we get someone good in return for him. Thats all im saying. I want to have a bat that actually is a threat to other teams.

 

I agree. I'd rather keep Marshall, but I wouldn't mind giving up Guzman if it meant getting a power bat...like Cabrera! :D

[Careless]

Im sick of hearing about both of them. Guzman has been injured twice and whenever he comes up gets rocked. Ive heard of Pie for the last 2 years and now this year and hes never been moved up. Get off your but Jim and trade him Guzman and Jaque and get Bobby Abreu or Miguel Cabrera.

 

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery.

 

Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me:

 

Marshall

Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's

Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's

 

 

Guzman

Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's

Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's

Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's

 

TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's

 

So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good.

Shall we ignore 75% more baserunners in 1 more inning?

[Backtobanks]

I'm still waiting to see why we want to hold on to Guzman and Hill. The way they are pitching will ruin whatever trade value they had. I agree that they both have some potential, but unless the Cubs start scoring some runs the season will be a total disaster. The Cubs need to deal from their strength (young starting pitchers) and as long as they insist on a superstar in exchange for one of these two, they Cubs will continue to lose. I would start asking around as to who might be available if Guzman or Hill is part of the trade package.