Will Cub fans ever be happy?

[atcfootball]

I come to the board, I don't post often, I try not to. However I do read the board everyday. The Cubs now in the early season are 12 - 7. They have now 2 Rookie starting pitchers in the rotation. They have 2 Rookies playing everyday. They have there numbers 1 and 3 starers on the DL to go along with there best hitter.

 

Im I reading correctly, 12W 7L with all the above and people are still talking about a few of the Cubs players that are in early season slumps? They go to the ballpark to boo them players and still can not say one positive thing about them when they do something good.

I read last night about someone not wanting to Jones to swing at the first pitch, yet he hit a HR ont he first pitch to put the game away for us!

I read today about Pierre not hitting the ball out of the infield, yet he hit a double to the OF last night when we really need a runner on!

 

I read Baker is a bad manager and hurts the team more then he helps it. However I see nothing on the good moves he has made this season, but every time he pinch hits Perez, a new thread on the board is started. If anything Baker has risen the expectations of Cub fans and I don't think anyone can denny that! Prior to Baker coming to the Cubs, I don't recall being at, hearing on TV or radio a Cubs game were our own players were booed, why is that?

 

We won a game tonight, yet I'm not sure I will read once about the sac bunt by Jones. The move Baker made to call it.

How Baker took Marshall out at just the right time with 96 pitches thrown, his high for the season. How Baker has been very good about getting Marshall out of the game when his pitch count gets near 80 or 90 pitches.

 

I'm going on, this is not about Baker, it is not about Perez, Jones, Pierre, Rameriz (who by the way has not been hitting the cover off the ball, yet I have not heard one person boo him).

 

This is about why? What will it take for you to be happy? You pay your money, I understand that, and have the right to voice our opinion! Is a classic ansewr, you also have the right not to be a FAN (An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.) If you are so unhappy with this 12 - 7 team, why do you pay your money? If you are so unhappy with a few players on the team, why go?

 

The treatment of the fans to our own players, I had never seen prior to the last few years! NEVER! Why is it? I really don't understand it..

 

I have never seen so many Cub fans that want to cut up a wonderful win with, Baker should have, Jones needs to stop, or something else negative. I see a thread on "Bad Baker Moves", yet I can not find one for good moves! Have we really as Cub fans become so negative? Please don't tell me well it is has been 98 years since our last WS! That is a great talking point if you have been around for all 98 of them years! Kids born in the 1980's say it has been 98 years, news flash - you have been around for 26 of them and probably have been following the Cubs for 1/2 of them years!

 

All I'm asking is when did it become the "thing to do" to boo our own players? I remember hearing boo's for other teams, but our own team? How can you say in a straight face, I'm a Cubs fan, I support the Cubs and turn around at the game and boo? Is that a new form of support I don't know about?

[bring stone back]

you're not the first person to make that observation and agree with you completely. The answer is they will not be satisfied. There is always something to bitch about (Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, Jim Hendry, Baker, etc).

[Yeti]

i will be a VERY VERY happy man if i see a cubs world championship in my lifetime

[J.R.]

Completely disagree!

[Yeti]

as a lifetime fan, back "in the day" i never expected the cubs to win, so i was never upset when they didnt, but now i expect alot more outta this team, unrealized expectations hurt alot more than expected medirocrity, makes a cub fan cranky

[bring stone back]

Completely disagree!

 

With what?

[Omar]

I agree.. It's as if most Cub fans have OCD to be perfect. Anything below 10 runs scored an inning is unacceptable... But I'm guessing it's because we're sick of it all... Sick of Red Sox winning the World Series and breaking their curse... Sick of White Sox winning the world series and getting countless insults from their fans... Just plain sick of everything including having a long drought, thinking it needs to stop so badly that we deserve perfection.

[TruffleShuffle]

you're not the first person to make that observation and agree with you completely. The answer is they will not be satisfied. There is always something to bitch about (Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, Jim Hendry, Baker, etc).

 

As I've posted in another thread already tonight, check back in October. I'm sure you won't hear many people bitching if the Cubs keep up the current pace, but many people see plenty of reasons why the Cubs will fall well off the pace they've set to this point. You see us as pessimists... I see us as realists. Time will tell which is more accurate.

[bring stone back]

you're not the first person to make that observation and agree with you completely. The answer is they will not be satisfied. There is always something to bitch about (Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, Jim Hendry, Baker, etc).

 

As I've posted in another thread already tonight, check back in October. I'm sure you won't hear many people bitching if the Cubs keep up the current pace, but many people see plenty of reasons why the Cubs will fall well off the pace they've set to this point. You see us as pessimists... I see us as realists. Time will tell which is more accurate.

 

I'm not saying this is you, but there's a big difference between a realist and someone who bitches about how Pierre and Jones suck after 19 games.

 

My personal favorite is the guy who bitched about Pierre getting the ball out of the infield because of one bad game. Forget the fact he was facing one of the best left handers in the game...that doesn't matter.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

When people see Derrek Lee hitting home runs they say "that's really good", and everyone agrees so there's not much discussion. If someone says that "Juan Pierre is a terrible player", there's going to be more disagreement, and therefore more discussions.

[imb]

you're not the first person to make that observation and agree with you completely. The answer is they will not be satisfied. There is always something to bitch about (Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, Jim Hendry, Baker, etc).

 

As I've posted in another thread already tonight, check back in October. I'm sure you won't hear many people bitching if the Cubs keep up the current pace, but many people see plenty of reasons why the Cubs will fall well off the pace they've set to this point. You see us as pessimists... I see us as realists. Time will tell which is more accurate.

 

I'm not saying this is you, but there's a big difference between a realist and someone who bitches about how Pierre and Jones suck after 19 games.

 

My personal favorite is the guy who bitched about Pierre getting the ball out of the infield because of one bad game. Forget the fact he was facing one of the best left handers in the game...that doesn't matter.

 

im not talking about just tonight, im talking about all season. a .280 obp in the leadoff spot. I'm sick of it and it's pretty much not acceptable at all. Has he been facing DTrain every game this season? Nope, and he's been awful.

 

And we've had 991 games to tell that Jacque Jones sucks. This isnt a sample size issue, he is really, actually bad.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Bunts Lick Butts

[abuck1220]

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

[TruffleShuffle]

Maybe we shouldn't get mad at Jacque Jones then... after all, a lot of us knew it was a terrible signing by the Cubs, and knew he'd be crappy. I'm sure by the end of the year he'll have done what he always does, end up with 20-25 HRs and a bad OBP.

[Omar]

Maybe we shouldn't get mad at Jacque Jones then... after all, a lot of us knew it was a terrible signing by the Cubs, and knew he'd be crappy. I'm sure by the end of the year he'll have done what he always does, end up with 20-25 HRs and a bad OBP.

 

This off-season wasnt exactly the best free agent market you'll ever see. Even with Jeromy Burnitz, we'd get the same production. Our only option was to trade, and I am deeply disappointed of what Hendry, the best trade manager, got out of the Patterson trade.

[bring stone back]

you're not the first person to make that observation and agree with you completely. The answer is they will not be satisfied. There is always something to bitch about (Juan Pierre, Jacque Jones, Neifi Perez, Jim Hendry, Baker, etc).

 

As I've posted in another thread already tonight, check back in October. I'm sure you won't hear many people bitching if the Cubs keep up the current pace, but many people see plenty of reasons why the Cubs will fall well off the pace they've set to this point. You see us as pessimists... I see us as realists. Time will tell which is more accurate.

 

I'm not saying this is you, but there's a big difference between a realist and someone who bitches about how Pierre and Jones suck after 19 games.

 

My personal favorite is the guy who bitched about Pierre getting the ball out of the infield because of one bad game. Forget the fact he was facing one of the best left handers in the game...that doesn't matter.

 

im not talking about just tonight, im talking about all season. a .280 obp in the leadoff spot. I'm sick of it and it's pretty much not acceptable at all. Has he been facing DTrain every game this season? Nope, and he's been awful.

 

And we've had 991 games to tell that Jacque Jones sucks. This isnt a sample size issue, he is really, actually bad.

 

In Pierre we knew we were getting a guy coming off a down year, but could get on base, steal bases and bring an element this team hasn't had in quite some time....someone to put the defense on their heels because of pure speed and energy (see last night's error on Cabrera. You think he makes that error if anyone else is running home from 3rd)?

 

In Jones we knew we were getting a better outfielder, a streaky player with the ability to help carry a team for a couple weeks and then disappear for a couple weeks. You take the good with the bad...why the shock?

 

You don't think it's a little ridiculous to overreact after 19 games? Does Ramirez suck, too? I know...let's try and trade him. Nevermind, we probably can't because Hendry sucks, too, right?

[bring stone back]

Maybe we shouldn't get mad at Jacque Jones then... after all, a lot of us knew it was a terrible signing by the Cubs, and knew he'd be crappy. I'm sure by the end of the year he'll have done what he always does, end up with 20-25 HRs and a bad OBP.

 

I'll take Jones over Burnitz.

[rocket]

 

You don't think it's a little ridiculous to overreact after 19 games? Does Ramirez suck, too? I know...let's try and trade him. Nevermind, we probably can't because Hendry sucks, too, right?

 

If Aramis had a really awful year last year, then yes we'd probably complain that Ramirez sucks.

 

But Ramirez gets the benefit of the doubt. Because of Pierre's season last year, he does not.

[TruffleShuffle]

Maybe we shouldn't get mad at Jacque Jones then... after all, a lot of us knew it was a terrible signing by the Cubs, and knew he'd be crappy. I'm sure by the end of the year he'll have done what he always does, end up with 20-25 HRs and a bad OBP.

 

This off-season wasnt exactly the best free agent market you'll ever see. Even with Jeromy Burnitz, we'd get the same production. Our only option was to trade, and I am deeply disappointed of what Hendry, the best trade manager, got out of the Patterson trade.

 

Why? Syd Thrift isn't the GM of the Orioles any more. They actually could pick up tapes or look at stat sheets and see for themselves how badly Patterson sucks. Plus, they knew that his arbitration number would be high, so they'd be paying close to $3 million (the real figure is $2.8M) for a guy who had an OBP of .254 and was probably one of the worst players in all of baseball last season. There was enough risk on their end; nobody was going to give up premium talent for Patterson after last year.

[bring stone back]

Maybe we shouldn't get mad at Jacque Jones then... after all, a lot of us knew it was a terrible signing by the Cubs, and knew he'd be crappy. I'm sure by the end of the year he'll have done what he always does, end up with 20-25 HRs and a bad OBP.

 

This off-season wasnt exactly the best free agent market you'll ever see. Even with Jeromy Burnitz, we'd get the same production. Our only option was to trade, and I am deeply disappointed of what Hendry, the best trade manager, got out of the Patterson trade.

 

So posters complain about Patterson being worthless garbage and are disappointed when Hendry can't get something of value for that garbage?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

In Pierre we knew we were getting a guy coming off a down year, but could get on base, steal bases and bring an element this team hasn't had in quite some time....someone to put the defense on their heels because of pure speed and energy (see last night's error on Cabrera. You think he makes that error if anyone else is running home from 3rd)?

 

In Jones we knew we were getting a better outfielder, a streaky player with the ability to help carry a team for a couple weeks and then disappear for a couple weeks. You take the good with the bad...why the shock?

 

I disagree about both of those. In short, Pierre's season may not have been a fluke and I'm not sold on the "pure speed and energy" aspect. Jones is just bad.

 

This is the point though. People disagree. When people complain about this sort of thing I don't really understand what they want. Should we have 5 page threads commending Barrett for his double? A "Congrats on fielding a groundball correctly" thread? This is a place for discussion, and inevitably disagreements and therefore debate will happen, and happen often.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Transmogrified Tiger

[bring stone back]

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

 

 

Simple solution...be optimistic with the early start and the players coming back and quit bitching so damn much. Pretty easy.

[Blueheart05]

Hello, I thought this was a family site. Can we stop using the B word? Thank you!

[rocket]

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

 

 

Simple solution...be optimistic with the early start and the players coming back and quit bitching so damn much. Pretty easy.

 

why should WE have to change to appease the people bitching about the bitching?

 

(i really just wanted to add to the cursing in this thread)

[TruffleShuffle]

as i've said before, the bitching about the bitching practically outweighs the bitching.

 

 

Simple solution...be optimistic with the early start and the players coming back and quit bitching so damn much. Pretty easy.

 

OK, so be optimistic now and then act shocked when the Cubs' lack of health and ability to get on base catches up with them, and they finish around .500?

[bring stone back]

In Pierre we knew we were getting a guy coming off a down year, but could get on base, steal bases and bring an element this team hasn't had in quite some time....someone to put the defense on their heels because of pure speed and energy (see last night's error on Cabrera. You think he makes that error if anyone else is running home from 3rd)?

 

In Jones we knew we were getting a better outfielder, a streaky player with the ability to help carry a team for a couple weeks and then disappear for a couple weeks. You take the good with the bad...why the shock?

 

I disagree about both of those. In short, Pierre's season may not have been a fluke and I'm not sold on the "pure speed and energy" aspect. Jones is just bad.

 

This is the point though. People disagree. When people complain about this sort of thing I don't really understand what they want. Should we have 5 page threads commending Barrett for his double? A "Congrats on fielding a groundball correctly thread"? This is a place for discussion, and inevitably disagreements and therefore debate will happen, and happen often.

 

Pierre isn't fast and doesn't bring energy to the team? If I recall at the beginning of the year a player made the analogy of bringing Pierre is like Podsednik to the Sox...he brings energy and excitement to the top of the lineup and the rest of the lineup can't help but feed off of that.

 

Jones being a good outfield and power hitter from the left side alone put him above the "bad" level. He's a productive outfielder with some drawbacks, but he's not "bad."