Anyone else remember this? Rick Monday saves the flag

[OleMissCub]

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

[EricG]

Former Cubs second baseman Tony Womack is expected to be released by the Cincinnati Reds when center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. comes off the disabled list Friday. Womack, 36, is making $1.1 million this season.

Do the Cubs need another second baseman?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Former Cubs second baseman Tony Womack is expected to be released by the Cincinnati Reds when center fielder Ken Griffey Jr. comes off the disabled list Friday. Womack, 36, is making $1.1 million this season.

Do the Cubs need another second baseman?

 

In a Rick Monday thread?

 

Rick threw the first pitch at Sunday's Diamondbacks-Dodgers game, they showed the video on the jumbotron then.

[Mizzou]

I've heard of what happened before, but never actually read the play by play, so to speak, of it. I just finished the article on Cubs.com.

 

Great stuff.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

i'm not anti-american at all, i just think the way certain people feel about the flag in this country is somewhat similar to the way that many muslims feel toward the image of muhammed.

 

before you mention anything about the fact that some have threatened violence toward presenters of the compromised images of muhammed--i'd like to call to attention the presence of cultural relativism here. regardless of the severity of punishment or retribution in the 2 examples, my feelings remain that hallowing an image or piece of fabric is somewhat dangerous in any capacity.

 

as i said, the story is a cool one--this thomas fellow was a loser--and hopefully his kid has grown up to know better than to commit such idiotic and frivolous acts simply to get a reaction from some folks. the burning of the american flag only hinders the cause of those on the left.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

No offense, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

The flag is just a symbol. It is not an actual veteran, or the grave of a veteran. And the reproduction and bastardization of the flag in so many forms that are technically against the rules of proper treatment of the flag (as well as the irony that burning the flag is proper disposal) makes me laugh at the disingenuous nature of many people's complaints. Make no mistake, I think flag burning is a crap form of protest. It's a pathetic attempt to make a statement when you don't even know what you want to say. But it's harmless, and somewhat serves a purpose as it exposes the fools.

[Magnetic Curses]

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

No offense, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

The flag is just a symbol. It is not an actual veteran, or the grave of a veteran. And the reproduction and bastardization of the flag in so many forms that are technically against the rules of proper treatment of the flag (as well as the irony that burning the flag is proper disposal) makes me laugh at the disingenuous nature of many people's complaints. Make no mistake, I think flag burning is a crap form of protest. It's a pathetic attempt to make a statement when you don't even know what you want to say. But it's harmless, and somewhat serves a purpose as it exposes the fools.

 

yep, that's pretty much my point.

[hardcorecubfan]

I remember it well being 15. It was an important moment for a country that felt like crap after that fiasco in vietnam, let alone the new trend in music called disco. (that was depressing enough.

[Skers and Cubbies]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:

goony's evil twin wrote:

Sulleymon wrote:

OleMissCub wrote:

goony's evil twin wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

 

No offense, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

The flag is just a symbol. It is not an actual veteran, or the grave of a veteran. And the reproduction and bastardization of the flag in so many forms that are technically against the rules of proper treatment of the flag (as well as the irony that burning the flag is proper disposal) makes me laugh at the disingenuous nature of many people's complaints. Make no mistake, I think flag burning is a crap form of protest. It's a pathetic attempt to make a statement when you don't even know what you want to say. But it's harmless, and somewhat serves a purpose as it exposes the fools.

 

 

yep, that's pretty much my point.

good to know i'm not the only one who thinks like that..... and on a random tangent

Marx had some good ideas, who here has actually read the manifesto?(not meant as an insult)

I have and I think marx laid out good ideas, but he didn't account for what I would call the human element, also its not his fault his ideas were perverted by some power hungry soviets.

[KatJ]

while it's stupid and pointless to burn the flag--and i certainly understand why monday did what he did--i don't understand why the symbol of the american flag provokes so much nationalistic idolatry.

 

yes, it's a cool story, but what certain forefathers fought and died for certainly cannot be summed up by a piece of 3-colored material.

 

. . .

 

great save, monday--especially because a new flag can go for some serious money on the open market--but that's really all it's worth. next time, save me a corn dog or something.

 

At the risk of giving this all-too-predictable slant (SOMEONE was going to posit this spin), Marxism has its own idols as well. After Lenin died, they pickled him up pretty well and put him on public display - I think you can still go see it. Similar deal with Mao and Kim Il-sung - I don't think their actual bodies are on display, but the people do idolize them - it's drummed into their heads from grade school on. And what was one of the first things that got torn down in (was it?) the Kremlin in the fall of Communism - that huge statue of Lenin. (You can see a nice replica of Nikolai's statue across the lake from where I live, however, if so desired.)

 

I do revere the flag - although theoretically, I support a person's right to burn it in protest - but it would bother me. And in the Monday incident, I think the people involved had a misguided sense of purpose - their chosen venue for the burning gave more publicity to the act itself than any meaning they might have had behind it.

 

And as for Monday rescuing the flag, good for him. He was standing up for his principles, and robbing those (IMO) idiots of a chance to make themselves stand out.

 

If you want to be snide about this kind of stuff (e.g., the "buy me a corndog next time, Monday" comment), you need to read a lot more Maureen Dowd. She's the master (mistress?) of the crass political sound bite.

[Careless]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:

goony's evil twin wrote:

Sulleymon wrote:

OleMissCub wrote:

goony's evil twin wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

 

No offense, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

The flag is just a symbol. It is not an actual veteran, or the grave of a veteran. And the reproduction and bastardization of the flag in so many forms that are technically against the rules of proper treatment of the flag (as well as the irony that burning the flag is proper disposal) makes me laugh at the disingenuous nature of many people's complaints. Make no mistake, I think flag burning is a crap form of protest. It's a pathetic attempt to make a statement when you don't even know what you want to say. But it's harmless, and somewhat serves a purpose as it exposes the fools.

 

 

yep, that's pretty much my point.

good to know i'm not the only one who thinks like that..... and on a random tangent

Marx had some good ideas, who here has actually read the manifesto?(not meant as an insult)

I have and I think marx laid out good ideas, but he didn't account for what I would call the human element, also its not his fault his ideas were perverted by some power hungry soviets.

The Manifesto? No ideas there, or, at least, not any in a form to be of any real use. Read Capital.

[Magnetic Curses]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:

goony's evil twin wrote:

Sulleymon wrote:

OleMissCub wrote:

goony's evil twin wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with sulley's post (I was actually surprised a bit with the direction he took it).

 

 

It surprised you that Sully would feel that way?? Where've you been bro?

 

 

i think he was surprised by the relative benevolence toward america in the post.

 

 

No offense, but yeah, that's what I meant.

 

The flag is just a symbol. It is not an actual veteran, or the grave of a veteran. And the reproduction and bastardization of the flag in so many forms that are technically against the rules of proper treatment of the flag (as well as the irony that burning the flag is proper disposal) makes me laugh at the disingenuous nature of many people's complaints. Make no mistake, I think flag burning is a crap form of protest. It's a pathetic attempt to make a statement when you don't even know what you want to say. But it's harmless, and somewhat serves a purpose as it exposes the fools.

 

 

yep, that's pretty much my point.

good to know i'm not the only one who thinks like that..... and on a random tangent

Marx had some good ideas, who here has actually read the manifesto?(not meant as an insult)

I have and I think marx laid out good ideas, but he didn't account for what I would call the human element, also its not his fault his ideas were perverted by some power hungry soviets.

The Manifesto? No ideas there, or, at least, not any in a form to be of any real use. Read Capital.

 

Das Kapital is not really for the casual reader. one really needs a teacher or guide to get through it.

 

as for the "human element", i don't buy it. pure capitalism is much more of a pie-in-the-sky "feel good" idea than socialism.

 

as i've said before, if you read marx, you understand that he was an ardent anti-utopian, who fought against utopians and anarchists his entire professional life. "communism is a great idea, but doesn't work in real life" has been an american mantra-even a cultish, brainwashed motto--since the time of mccarthy.

 

marx's vision at it's most basic level involved control of government by the working class, an idea that people who support control of government by big business would have you believe is a pipe-dream, which is, of course, a huge joke--and a propaganda victory of the most effective kind.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Stannis

[Magnetic Curses]

while it's stupid and pointless to burn the flag--and i certainly understand why monday did what he did--i don't understand why the symbol of the american flag provokes so much nationalistic idolatry.

 

yes, it's a cool story, but what certain forefathers fought and died for certainly cannot be summed up by a piece of 3-colored material.

 

. . .

 

great save, monday--especially because a new flag can go for some serious money on the open market--but that's really all it's worth. next time, save me a corn dog or something.

 

At the risk of giving this all-too-predictable slant (SOMEONE was going to posit this spin), Marxism has its own idols as well. After Lenin died, they pickled him up pretty well and put him on public display - I think you can still go see it. Similar deal with Mao and Kim Il-sung - I don't think their actual bodies are on display, but the people do idolize them - it's drummed into their heads from grade school on. And what was one of the first things that got torn down in (was it?) the Kremlin in the fall of Communism - that huge statue of Lenin. (You can see a nice replica of Nikolai's statue across the lake from where I live, however, if so desired.)

 

you live in freemont? lucky dog. i almost moved there once, but decided that northgate was cheaper.

 

i love that statue, btw.

 

anyhow, you need to go back and read my second post in this thread.

[Skers and Cubbies]

Now not to beat a dead horse but doesn't marx writing hint at that the state will wither/fade away? and the people will work according to what they can and recieve according to their needs? (Sounds utopian to me but just my opinion(really not trying to be arguemntative it jsut seems utopian to me), besides i have not read a biography of marx. just a piece or two of das Kapital)

and the brainwashed macarthism, i cant be offended by it but thats just me. I just can't picture people (heck even exceptionale people) not trying to get a little ahead of everyone else. I just don't see it as a common human characteristic.

But i have been mistaken before and will be again .

i need to go dig out all my old notes on the stuff i have read or maybe :gasp: Re read them

[Magnetic Curses]

Now not to beat a dead horse but doesn't marx writing hint at that the state will wither/fade away? and the people will work according to what they can and recieve according to their needs? (Sounds utopian to me but just my opinion(really not trying to be arguemntative it jsut seems utopian to me), besides i have not read a biography of marx. just a piece or two of das Kapital)

and the brainwashed macarthism, i cant be offended by it but thats just me. I just can't picture people (heck even exceptionale people) not trying to get a little ahead of everyone else. I just don't see it as a common human characteristic.

But i have been mistaken before and will be again .

i need to go dig out all my old notes on the stuff i have read or maybe :gasp: Re read them

 

pure communism is what happens when the state fades away, you're right. but marx wasn't exactly calling for it, he theorized that it would be the next logical step in the evolution of society. you see, society is not a finished product, nor is what is often referred to as "human nature". it's extremely short-sighted to assume that humans are somehow finished evolving socially.

 

just as many characteristics have become an inherent part of our cultural structure, negative characteristics, learned negative characteristics--these characteristics can be unlearned over time (racism, sexism, classism, etc), characteristics humanity was by no means born with.

 

marx wasn't convinced change was going to happen overnight, and he wasn't concerned very much with what would happen in a thousand years. in europe, at the time of his writing, masses of people were being systematically exploited and oppressed by big business--this is what he was concerned with. he wanted society to come together and work as a team (a concept we are always pushing over here, albeit only in certain areas) to triumph over economic tyranny. this is not an issue that can be peacefully resolved in one generation--marx knew that, but he wanted to start the ball rolling, unfortunately over the years, many people working independently of marx's ideas but operating under the guise of marxism have been responsible for terrible injustices in the history of humankind. not the fault of marx, socialism, or even an inevitable consequence of a socialist system.

 

socialism is not doomed to failure by the very nature of human beings, "human nature" is a reactionary term used to wage a war of propaganda.

[Careless]

socialism is not doomed to failure by the very nature of human beings, "human nature" is a reactionary term used to wage a war of propaganda.

Or possibly empirically demonstrated fact. It's easy to confuse the two.

[Magnetic Curses]

socialism is not doomed to failure by the very nature of human beings, "human nature" is a reactionary term used to wage a war of propaganda.

Or possibly empirically demonstrated fact. It's easy to confuse the two.

 

believing in human nature is like believing that sacrifice bunts are fundamental and important to team victory.

 

"empirically demonstrated fact " is stretching it, considering you're using a statistical term to define something which has not been measured, nor is there even enough belief in among minds in the field to even merit an attempt at measurement.

 

it's a subjective myth. there is no wifebeating gene or greed gene. we become bad because we see bad behaviors being done from the time we are born.