Pie for Kendrick?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

prospects I'd trade Pie for:

 

young

upton

wood

hermida

drew

liriano

billingsley

verlander

milledge

cain

fielder

kendrick

jackson

saltalamacchia

quentin

markakis

lester

tulowitzki

pelfrey

papelbon

bailey

 

That list is long, but distinguished... (some one finsh it! Its a Kevin Foster fastball over the middle! :wink: )

 

It'd be even longer if I knew we were signing Pierre to an extension.

[rawaction]

prospects I'd trade Pie for:

 

young

upton

wood

hermida

drew

liriano

billingsley

verlander

milledge

cain

fielder

kendrick

jackson

saltalamacchia

quentin

markakis

lester

tulowitzki

pelfrey

papelbon

bailey

 

That list is long, but distinguished... (some one finsh it! Its a Kevin Foster fastball over the middle! :wink: )

 

It'd be even longer if I knew we were signing Pierre to an extension.

 

Why can't Felix play RF? He showed enough XB power last year and this spring to show that he could be a pretty good corner OF if he puts it all together.

 

But I'll take any of those first 10 guys too, after that I don't.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

prospects I'd trade Pie for:

 

young

upton

wood

hermida

drew

liriano

billingsley

verlander

milledge

cain

fielder

kendrick

jackson

saltalamacchia

quentin

markakis

lester

tulowitzki

pelfrey

papelbon

bailey

 

That list is long, but distinguished... (some one finsh it! Its a Kevin Foster fastball over the middle! :wink: )

 

It'd be even longer if I knew we were signing Pierre to an extension.

 

Why can't Felix play RF? He showed enough XB power last year and this spring to show that he could be a pretty good corner OF if he puts it all together.

 

But I'll take any of those first 10 guys too, after that I don't.

 

Why can't he? His power is questionable. He also starts to rack up the Ks when he swings for the fences. I'd rather have him in CF, where plus speed, a good arm (assuming he improves his accuracy), and moderate power are a big time advantage over most teams CF. Stick the same production in RF and he's average at best. Why devalue your own cheap homegrown talent?

 

I'd take any of the arms I listed over an OF with Pie's ability, especially considering the trade and FA markets for starting pitching right now and in the future.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

PECOTA see's Pie as the 4th best CF prospect in the game.

 

Center Fielders: Real Prospects

Player                               Age    WARP     Upside     Comb
1. Chris Young, CF, ARI (22)          22    22.5      212.9     437.8

2. Brian Anderson, CF, CHA (24)       24    16.1      104.4     265.7
3. Franklin Gutierrez, CF, CLE (23)   23    14.6      100.8     246.8
4. Felix Pie, CF, CHN (21)            21    14.0       94.4     234.5
5. Lastings Milledge, CF, NYN (21)    21    12.8      100.8     228.4

 

 

PECOTA takes Felix Pie reasonably seriously as a prospect, as least as much as it can for a guy whose number one comparable is Corey Patterson. We do not make this stuff up, folks. I’d be reluctant to read too much into Pie’s power breakout at Double-A, as it came in only 59 games worth of playing time. Although Pie is built differently than Patterson, he’s presently a little bit undersized for a power hitter. Lastings Milledge belongs in the same broad category as Pie, and shares some of his comparables. PECOTA sees growth potential for both of these guys, but reminds us that it might not come immediately; either could very easily have a Franklin Gutierrez type of season next year (at which point they’ll go from being overrated to underrated).

[Gunned]

Why can't Felix play RF? He showed enough XB power last year and this spring to show that he could be a pretty good corner OF if he puts it all together.

 

Pie just doesn't have enough power for a corner spot, especially with Murton occupying the other corner. In my opinion, you should get about 2400 OPS points from your outfield, and with Pierre probably being around .700 and Murton hovering around .800, Pie just isn't going to cut it.

 

Pie's strengths are great range in CF and good speed -- if he reaches his full potential, putting him in right field is like having Jessica Alba, but forcing her to wear sweatpants and a flannel shirt all the time.

Edited March 31, 2006 by Gunned

[Ding Dong Johnson]

PECOTA see's Pie as the 4th best CF prospect in the game.

 

Thank you for reminding me how much I hate the D-Backs and their farm system.

[rawaction]

Why can't Felix play RF? He showed enough XB power last year and this spring to show that he could be a pretty good corner OF if he puts it all together.

 

Pie just doesn't have enough power for a corner spot, especially with Murton occupying the other corner. In my opinion, you should get about 2400 OPS points from your outfield, and with Pierre probably being around .700 and Murton hovering around .800, Pie just isn't going to cut it.

 

Pie's strengths are great range in CF and good speed -- if he reaches his full potential, putting him in right field is like having Jessica Alba, but forcing her to wear sweatpants and a flannel shirt all the time.

 

LOL. Pie has more upside than either of them though, so the wisest decision would be to get rid of one of them. Assuming the Pierre re-signing (as we have hypothetically done in this thread), then I would trade Murton before I trade Pie. If he's gonna be hovering around .800 when Pie is playing everday...then he doesn't need to be on the team.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

We need to let Pierre walk, especially if he thinks the market for leadoff hitters is going to get him mad loot like Furcal.

 

Murton, Pie, someone not named Jones from left to right across the OF, please.

[ZMovieman]

PECOTA see's Pie as the 4th best CF prospect in the game.

 

Thank you for reminding me how much I hate the D-Backs and their farm system.

 

If I remember right, Chris Young came over to the Dbacks from the White Sox in the Vasquez trade? Do I have that right?

[rawaction]

PECOTA see's Pie as the 4th best CF prospect in the game.

 

Thank you for reminding me how much I hate the D-Backs and their farm system.

 

If I remember right, Chris Young came over to the Dbacks from the White Sox in the Vasquez trade? Do I have that right?

 

That is right.

[ThePenguin11]

Geez, there are a lot of Pie detractors nowadays. Last year at the trade deadline no one wanted to trade him for anything and now it's like he's a has-been, never-will-be. FWIW, I wouldn't even be looking at trading him for another prospect. If I'm trading him its in a package for a proven major leaguer on a small market team with one or two more arbitration years. Otherwise I'm finding a way to make him a full-timer next year. Hell, he can be a starter this year if we lose and Of'er.

[rawaction]

Geez, there are a lot of Pie detractors nowadays. Last year at the trade deadline no one wanted to trade him for anything and now it's like he's a has-been, never-will-be. FWIW, I wouldn't even be looking at trading him for another prospect. If I'm trading him its in a package for a proven major leaguer on a small market team with one or two more arbitration years. Otherwise I'm finding a way to make him a full-timer next year. Hell, he can be a starter this year if we lose and Of'er.

 

I don't think people that would trade him for another prospect are calling him a has-been, never-will-be. Just want to trade him for a projected better player.

[Guest]

There is certainly a select group of prospects in the game that I'd trade Pie for. Kendrick might be one of them, though I don't know he'll ever develop the power or the speed to be a real difference maker. He's also not a big asset defensively at 2B. You're essentially getting a younger version of Todd Walker. That's not a bad thing, but I'm not sure I trade Pie's upside for him.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

The only way Pie should be traded if he nets us someone like Cabrera (not happening) or Pierre isn't shown the door (NOO!).

 

I'd love to have Pie in CF in '07. Pie in a corner OF spot is a flat out waste.

[Shawon12]

I would only trade Pie for a proven major league #2 or #1 starter.

[Geech]

I would only trade Pie for a proven major league #2 or #1 starter.

 

That's preposterous. Pie isn't even that good of a prospect.

[Warpticon]

Heh. This trade proposal makes almost no sense. A top prospect for top prospect trade makes little sense anyway. However, considering the Cubs have Patterson (same age, better defense, faster, better base stealer, much better at walking, less power, strikes out a lot more, less minor league experience) as a 2B prospect, and the D'backs have Gonzales, Quentin, and Young as upcoming outfielders. This would be a case of both teams trading from need to get something they don't need, which is preposterous.

[ltb]

and the D'backs have Gonzales, Quentin, and Young as upcoming outfielders

 

what does this have to do with howie kendrick?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

No offense to Pie, but Kendrick is probably a MUCH better fit for this orginization than Pie.

 

See the thing is, we don't preach much in paitence and OBP. That means the prospects like Pie, the toolsy guys who K alot and don't walk enough but still get rushed are more likely to be busts. Kendrick is not a paitent guy, but he makes excellent contact and his for both average and some power. He has a much smaller bust factor than Pie in my eyes.

 

Pie is too similar to Corey to me, he is a guy who needs at least another couple of years to learn the strike zone.

 

Kendrick isn't exactly flawless, he isn't uber athletic and he isn't very fast or good defensively. But at the worst he sounds like a much better hitting version of Todd Walker.

 

Pie does have a higher upside, but I think its much more likely he is a bust. I would do this tenatively because I do love Pie, but Kendrick seems almost to be a lock to be at least a solid player.

 

The list of guys I'd trade Pie for is pretty damn long.

 

Prospects I'd trade Pie for:

Chris Young

Delmon Young

BJ and Justin Upton

BrandonWood

Jeremy Hermida

Stephen drew

Francisco Liriano

Chad Billingsley

Justin Verlander

Lastings Milledge

Matt Cain

Rickey Weeks

Howie Kendrick

Carlos Quentin

Jarrod Saltalamacchia

Nick Markakis

Jon Lester

Troy Tulowitzki

Andy Marte

Ian Stewart

Jeff Clement

Alex Gordon

Ryan Zimmerman

Daric Barton

Adam Jones

Craig Hansen

Gio Gonzalez

Jon Broxton

Jason Kubel

Russ Martin

 

And in a couple years there are quite a few guys I'd add, such as McCutchen, Andrus, and Bailey.

 

I'm excited about Pie, but I realize this guy has a huge bust factor. He's still too raw to be moving as fast as he is.

 

If I could pick anyone to trade Pie for it'd be the Chris Young, Hermida, or BJ/Justin Upton.

[Scotti]

Kendrick has a minor league career .359 BA and 32 HBP in only 1185 AB but only a .404 career OBP. He walks only 5% of his AB (and only 4% over each of the last two years--Pie walked 7% and 9% over the last 2 years). His speed and power aren’t great and his defense is suspect. His MLB value is mostly attached to his elevated batting average.

 

Of the 18 active MLB players who have a .303 career average or better all but 2 have been assisted by home field advantage (Helton and Walker/ Coors), plus, plus speed (Ichiro, Pierre) or at least plus power (Pujos, Vlad, Nomar, Manny, Piazza, Frank Thomas, ARod, Magglio Ordonez, IRod, Mike Sweeney, Chipper Jones and Bobby Abreu). Kendrick fits none of those categories. Jeter and Sean Casey are the two outliers and both walk 10%. Even Ichiro (7%), Pierre (7%), Nomar (7%) and Vlad (10% and even 7% non-intentional) have significantly higher walk rates than Kendrick.

 

But even if Kendrick bats .310 (really, really high considering his free swinging ways) you STILL lose 49 OBP points and 49 SLG points (.355/.506). IF his other numbers remain the same (Kendrick has never been age challenged for his league) he’d be at an .861 OPS. An .861 OPS is still good but not all that hot for a guy stuck at 2B (can’t play SS, CF, 3B, C or P and an .861 OPS isn’t all that special for a non-toolsy LF, RF or 1B).

 

Kendrick should be a nice player but I would not trade Pie for him.

[stitchface]

only a .404 career OBP

 

:shock:

[XZero771679666304]

only a .404 career OBP

 

:shock:

 

When you have a BA of .359, your OBP should be higher than .404.

[Warpticon]

and the D'backs have Gonzales, Quentin, and Young as upcoming outfielders

 

what does this have to do with howie kendrick?

 

Because they'd be trading Kendrick for another outfielder?

[KingKongvs.Godzilla]

I think you miss factoring in Kendrick's high contact rates and strong scouting reports.

 

Not that an .861 OPS from the 2B position is something to laugh at, especially considering with his skill set that it is actually possible.

 

Pie is a monster question mark, his skill set is that of Corey's (except he's a horrid base stealer). The K:BB is pretty scary, and considering he isn't even as refined as Corey was when he was called up (not as good a basestealer, power is still a question) I don't see 1. why he's being rushed and 2. if we plan to rush him why its not possible to trade him for someone whose skill set would fit this team better.

[stitchface]

only a .404 career OBP

 

:shock:

 

When you have a BA of .359, your OBP should be higher than .404.

 

a .404 OBP with a .359 BA is better than a .404 OBP with a .290 BA. In fact, history shows that BA is more sustainable than walk rate as players advance. Now, if he had a .420 BABIP then I might be concerned. All that being said, I would be pleased with an .850+ OPS from 2b. The Angels do have a glut of MI so this might make sense from their end. Not sure if I would do it if I were the Cubs but I would definitely think about it. All things considered, I would offer them some pitching instead of Pie.