Grace: Sammy PROBABLY used roids

[CubinNY]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

[harrdb00]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

[harrdb00]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium. Both of their bodies looked completely different in 2001-2002 than how they looked in the early 90's. Bonds went from a superstar to the best player ever in the game and Sosa went from an all star to a superstar. Both used to be 5 tool players and suddenly became home run hitters (although Bonds did keep his average up). In his last couple years Sosa was just a 1 tool player.

 

Of course I don't have evidence that Sosa took steroids. My point is that everybody condemns Barry Bonds just cause he is an ass and nobody likes him but nobody says anything about Sammy Sosa just cause he's a good guy and people feel bad about his departure from Chicago.

 

Please, don't hold a double standard. Use your brains to think and realize what actually happened.

 

I'm done with this discussion.

'

 

Well put. I agree 100%.

[KatJ]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

But that just answers part of the questions. Supply is one thing, but where would he have injected it? Sosa wouldn't have taken steriods exclusively in the DR in the offseason, would he? I don't think the drugs work like that.

 

I believe that Sammy did take steroids, but I'm just trying to figure out how he's never been ratted out.

Edited March 24, 2006 by KatJ

[UBlink]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium. Both of their bodies looked completely different in 2001-2002 than how they looked in the early 90's. Bonds went from a superstar to the best player ever in the game and Sosa went from an all star to a superstar. Both used to be 5 tool players and suddenly became home run hitters (although Bonds did keep his average up). In his last couple years Sosa was just a 1 tool player.

 

Of course I don't have evidence that Sosa took steroids. My point is that everybody condemns Barry Bonds just cause he is an ass and nobody likes him but nobody says anything about Sammy Sosa just cause he's a good guy and people feel bad about his departure from Chicago.

 

Please, don't hold a double standard. Use your brains to think and realize what actually happened.

 

I'm done with this discussion.

 

Not quite yet. You responded to my quote, and I've never accused Bonds or anyone else of steroid use. I am too modest about my diagnostic abilities to make such a claim about anyone.

 

Now you're done.

[CubinNY]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

Be careful. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket you could be charged with murder.

[harrdb00]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

But that just answers part of the questions. Supply is one thing, but where would he have injected it? Sosa wouldn't have taken steriods exclusively in the DR in the offseason, would he? I don't think the drugs work like that.

 

Where would he inject it? In his butt, I don't know, but he probably injected while in the u.s. He gets his supply in the offseason in the DR and takes them during the season. Pretty simple.

[harrdb00]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

Be careful. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket you could be charged with murder.

 

I actually think corking the bat is worse than taking steroids. That is cheating and everyone knows it. An argument could be made that since everyone was taking steroids it wasn't a big deal. But we know that everyone wasn't corking their bat.

 

I don't think Sammy is a criminal, I am saying that I wouldn't put it past him to take steroids.

 

HOwever, you probably think Sammy just grabbed the wrong bat and didn't intend to use a corked bat.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

There's no flights out of San Francisco to the Dominican?

[harrdb00]

Bonds has numerous smoking guns. Sosa has none.

 

That's because he could go to the Dominican Republic for his supply. They don't have smoking guns in the DR (except for Manny Alexander).

 

Sammy has proven that he is not above cheating, e.g. corking his bat. Given that, I am fairly confident that he would have no problem taking steroids.

 

There's no flights out of San Francisco to the Dominican?

 

There are. And judging from Bonds' problems he would be better off right now if he had been on one of them.

[Chocolate Milk]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire (who similarly is only speculated to be a steroid user):

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

[CubinNY]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

[harrdb00]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

 

At least McGwire didn't pretend that he could no longer speak the language.

[snoodmonger]

Am I the only one who thinks the "his hat size increased 2x" statements are purely subjective and dumb? People say that about McGwire all the time, and I've never been able to confidently identify a head size change.

 

We'll probably never know dor sure if Sammy juiced, as we'll never have hard evidence. But agree with Rocket--Mark Grace repeatedly tests positive for douche...everytime he opens his mouth. He's pompous, bitter, and self-aggrandizing. And he'll never miss a chance to tell you how he played the game the right way. Good player (although not the production I want out of 1B), but one of my least favorite Cubs of all time.

 

And as for the title of the article and the original title of the thread, there's no other way to interpret what Grace was saying.

Edited March 24, 2006 by snoodmonger

[SouthSideRyan]

To clarify, HGH increases your head size, not steroids.

[SouthSideRyan]

Am I the only one who thinks the "his hat size increased 2x" statements are purely subjective and dumb?

 

As are the body weight arguments.

[Chocolate Milk]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

 

You are dismissing other's circumstantial evidence regarding Sammy but using other circumstantial evidence to say that McGwire shouldn't be in the HOF?

[CubbieRich]

Sammy juiced. I find it difficult to believe otherwise.

 

I agree.

 

I'm a big fan of Grace as a baseball player, but the more he talks, the less I like him as a person. It seems hypocritical to me that while Grace says "to each his own" about roid use, he wouldn't vote for Sammy as HOF. You can't ignore the numbers he's put up.

 

On the other hand, how many times did Grace keep a game going in the 9th, only to see Sammy whiff and strand everybody? From Grace's dog's eye view in the 90s, I guess Sammy wouldn't look like much of a HOF candidate.

 

Grace is a jerk. Always has been..always will be. Mark is still smarting from having his first wife(Michelle) dump him for the perpetual screaming Ray Liotta. Grace never had the 'stones' to say anything about Sammy when he was here. Then all of a sudden he found them? OK, sure he did. Grace was a clubhouse lawyer who never met a microphone he didn't like, but alienated some of his teammates. He reminds me of Shilling in that regard. Many people the Cubs should have kept Raffy and traded Grace.

[snoodmonger]

It isn't natural for somebody to gain 40-50 pounds in his early 30's. It's just not.

 

who did that?

 

Me in the year 2016.

 

:lol:

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Leave Sammy alone.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ray Liotta's even cooler now.(Didn't think it was possible)

[CubinNY]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

 

You are dismissing other's circumstantial evidence regarding Sammy but using other circumstantial evidence to say that McGwire shouldn't be in the HOF?

 

That is where you are wrong. They haven't presented any evidence whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Nothing.

[harrdb00]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

 

You are dismissing other's circumstantial evidence regarding Sammy but using other circumstantial evidence to say that McGwire shouldn't be in the HOF?

 

That is where you are wrong. They haven't presented any evidence whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Nothing.

 

Believe what you'd like.

[Chocolate Milk]

Apparently there are a couple comedians in the room.

 

You mean the ones who can tell what drugs people have taken by looking at pictures of them in baseball uniforms?

 

The thing I don't understand about the majority of people on this board is why they defend Sammy Sosa when they criticize Barry Bonds and say that he took steroids. The fact is that Sosa's body changed just as much as Bonds's did. Both of their heads looked like they got filled up with helium.

 

When did you measure their heads?

 

Sammy's body changed at a much younger age then Bonds. Sammy came from a third world country and was rail thin in Texas and barely out of his teens. Sammy never gave testimony that said he used steriods. Sammy has never been caught with Steriods. Sammy has never tested positive for steriods. Now, all this doesn't mean he didn't do it. But what you have done in this thread is absolutely nothing to demonstrate in any tangible way that Sammy was a user. You've passed your opinion off as fact. So it is probably best that you are done with this thread.

 

These are pretty strong words from someone who said the following about Mark McGwire who similarly is only speculated to be steroid user.

 

McGuire and Bonds should not get in the HOF, although a case could be made that Bonds could get in on his Pittsburgh career alone.

 

If they do get in, I hope the opening line on their plaque reads, "played during the steriod era".

 

I would have no problem if the plaque read the same thing for sammy or any other player whose career ran from the mid 90s to 2005.

 

McGuire went in front of Congress and didn't answer questions about his use of steriods. McGuire played the majority of his career in the bay area with Canseco and with Giambi. Again, I don't know if he took steriods either. But there is far more circumstantial evidence for McGuire than Sammy.

 

You are dismissing other's circumstantial evidence regarding Sammy but using other circumstantial evidence to say that McGwire shouldn't be in the HOF?

 

That is where you are wrong. They haven't presented any evidence whatsoever. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. Nothing.

 

I think it's interesting that you are willing to completely invalidate one player's entire career over hearsay yet have vigorously defended Sammy from anyone who thinks he may have used.

[Andy]

Given what we know about the brain inside Sammy's (not really that large) head, and given the sheer volume of other people who have been caught or had large amounts of circumstantial evidence presented against them, and given that no one other than bitter columnists, bitter ex-Cubs, and witch-hunters looking to convict anyone who gains some muscle during their prime, I am finding it harder and harder to believe Sammy used steroids.

 

I mean, seriously, I don't think anyone would argue that Sammy Sosa is the most intelligent guy on the planet - so how does he dodge ALL the circumstantial evidence when generally intelligent people such as Barry Bonds get all this dirt on them?

 

I just feel like I need more than muscle growth and refusing to submit to a witch hunt at Congress to convict Sammy, especially considering that there's no way of knowing if he would have been able to put on muscle at a younger age had he grown up in the U.S.

 

In other news: Grace is still a bitter whining douchebag. Mark and many others need to learn that retiring does not mean you have creative license to attack anyone you feel like attacking. Shut up and have some respect for people, even if you don't necessarily like them.

 

(And I agree with whoever noted that Grace played with Sammy for YEARS, including the first three of his home run binge, and yet he can offer up no new evidence.)