neifi on cedeno

[A New Era]

Again, what do you expect from a backup middle infielder?

 

One that doesn't voice descent and try to hint that he should be given more at bats than he deserves. One that accepts his role as a backup, and keeps is filthy mouth shut? I mean seriously. I thought we got rid of all this crap with Sosa, Alou, Farnsworth, Mercker, ect. . Now Neifi has to open his big fat mouth!!? :evil:

 

You know, this can really screw up a teams chemistry. And they all seem to be having fun and playing off eachother so well. If there are any outbreaks in the Clubhouse it can really screw up a team's momentum. I really hope he keeps his big mouth shut, and what he said was said, and it's off his chest now. Otherwise this could be a very LOOOOOONG season. . .

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I don't really see the venom, but please remove Neifi from the team.

 

Do you think Neifi is a horrible backup middle infielder? I don't think he is.

 

Yes.

 

What do you expect from a backup middle infielder? His VORP was 6.6 (OK, not good) with ++ defense.

 

I'm not sure I agree that his defense is "++", some defensive metrics(PMR) rate him down the chain a little bit, certainly not enough to make up for his atrocious offense. Speaking of which, I expect a little more than one of the worst hitters of the generation on my team's roster. IF that type of production is inevitable, there's good reason to avoid Neifi He's been sucking for a long time, at least with someone who is younger(whether that be a prospect or another player of Neifi's caliber in his prime years) you have the potential of offensive improvement. Neifi's a known black hole, and at his age he could get worse. He's also overpaid, and is a crappy veteran with a manager who loves him for dumb reasons("he saved us", pitcher chats on the mound where pitchers probably want to punch him in the face, etc.) and will use him even beyond the role he shouldn't be in.

 

1) Admittedly defensive metrics are still in their infancy however most I've seen rate Nefei as a very good SS.

2) Nefei's contract and manager isn't his problem - it's Hendry's.

 

Again, what do you expect from a backup middle infielder?

 

I told you. Someone who isn't an offensive abomination, and if we are forced to accept a defensive oriented guy who can't hit, at least get someone younger with the potential to give you something, anything at the offensive end. The rest that is out of his control was tacked on to the end to why he's particularly bad for this team.

 

What should the minimum stat line be for an avg fielding backup SS? Not trolling, just curious.

[Coach C]

I think Neifi should be traded. We can't have that kind of disension in the clubhouse.

 

Word.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Again, what do you expect from a backup middle infielder?

 

One that doesn't voice descent and try to hint that he should be given more at bats than he deserves. One that accepts his role as a backup, and keeps is filthy mouth shut? I mean seriously. I thought we got rid of all this crap with Sosa, Alou, Farnsworth, Mercker, ect. . Now Neifi has to open his big fat mouth!!? :evil:

 

You know, this can really screw up a teams chemistry. And they all seem to be having fun and playing off eachother so well. If there are any outbreaks in the Clubhouse it can really screw up a team's momentum. I really hope he keeps his big mouth shut, and what he said was said, and it's off his chest now. Otherwise this could be a very LOOOOOONG season. . .

 

The Cubs had a better record in 04 with their "bad chemistry".

 

So the guy is fighting for a starting job after signing a contract. Is that such a bad thing? He's actually right in a certain sense, Cedeno is not a sure thing by any means.

Edited March 7, 2006 by CardsFanInChiTown

[A New Era]

I think Neifi should be traded. We can't have that kind of disension in the clubhouse.

 

Word.

 

DOUBLE word to ya motha! :evil:

[Laura]

"If they need someone ready to play, they don't know how [Cedeno] is going to be in the big leagues for a whole year.

 

I never understood this. I've wondered this for a long time, and I need someone to clarify it for me. Why do most sports articles I've read have [] in them? What, did a player totally leave those words out, and the writer is inserting them back in? I mean, did Neifi actually say. . .

 

"If they need someone ready to play, they don't know how is going to be in the big leagues for a whole year.

 

They'll do that if they insert a proper name for a nickname, too.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I think Neifi should be traded. We can't have that kind of disension in the clubhouse.

 

Word.

 

DOUBLE word to ya motha! :evil:

 

Vanilla Ice... is that you?

 

:wink:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What should the minimum stat line be for an avg fielding backup SS? Not trolling, just curious.

 

Tough question, because the pool of players you're looking at is diverse. When looking at a prospect, I'd say he'd need pretty good minor league offensive numbers. Nothing outstanding, even for the position, but numbers that would probably net them a starting role if they repeat them in the bigs. Mike Fontenot(.272/.377/.430 at Iowa last year), although he doesn't play shortstop, is a decent example of such a player, although even someone with say a .350/.400(OBP/SLG) would work depending on their full body of work(physical tools, fielding ability, full minor league history). In the case of a more journeyman type player, Neifi sets an appropriate baseline, as very few players find themselves on base as little as he does. Again, not to say blindly dump Neifi for a guy that has similar numbers but is a couple years younger, the other factors previously mentioned play a role.

 

Also, for the record, I advocated going after Furcal/Lugo/etc this offseason, because I wanted Cedeno in Neifi's role this year. That gets Cedeno more major league time and he is still able to help the big league club, then he either moves to 2B(if you get Furcal and Walker departs to FA) or takes the full time SS role(Lugo leaves for FA). It also keeps dead weight like Neifi off the club. But the Cubs are stuck with Neifi, and the rest of the nightmarish moves Hendry made this offseason, so I guess I can dream that Neifi goes crazy and gets himself moved.

[Laura]

pitcher chats on the mound where pitchers probably want to punch him in the face

 

That made me laugh. :lol:

 

I will say that Prior seems to instigate a lot of Neifi chats.

 

I always wonder whether Maddux will break out a karate chop move on Neifi, though, when Neifi trots over to the mound. Maybe Maddux v.2006 will. It's probaby one reason Maddux tried to lobby Furcal.

[frostwyrm]

"I do care about starting," he said. "But I started out [as a backup] last year and look at what happened. Let's see what happens.

 

"If they need someone ready to play, they don't know how [Cedeno] is going to be in the big leagues for a whole year.

 

"Ronny is a really good shortstop, but sometimes you need a veteran in the middle. So let's see what happens. I'm not mad. I'm excited to be here."

 

These are some pretty obnoxious quotes. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to see that Neifi wants Cedeno to fail. How about a link? Personally I wouldn't post something like this without letting people know where it came from.

[A New Era]

I think Neifi should be traded. We can't have that kind of disension in the clubhouse.

 

Word.

 

DOUBLE word to ya motha! :evil:

 

Vanilla Ice... is that you?

 

:wink:

 

Alright STOP!! :twisted:

[Brian]

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] sucks."

[A New Era]

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] sucks."

 

Ok what expletative "nickname" did you edit out in that paraphrase? :wink:

[Brian]

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] sucks."

 

Ok what expletative "nickname" did you edit out in that paraphrase? :wink:

 

haha, actually i'd like to change my post

 

 

 

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] [sucks]!"

[frostwyrm]

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] sucks."

 

Ok what expletative "nickname" did you edit out in that paraphrase? :wink:

 

haha, actually i'd like to change my post

 

 

 

brian on neifi

 

"[neifi] [sucks]!"

 

"[neifi] sucks donkey [body part]."

[SouthSideRyan]

I think Neifi should be traded. We can't have that kind of disension in the clubhouse.

 

Word.

 

DOUBLE word to ya motha! :evil:

 

Vanilla Ice... is that you?

 

:wink:

 

Alright STOP!! :twisted:

 

Collaborate and listen!

[Brian]

10 POINTS

[A New Era]

10 POINTS

 

10 points to ya motha! WORD! 8)

[Diffusion]

I don't really see the venom, but please remove Neifi from the team.

 

Do you think Neifi is a horrible backup middle infielder? I don't think he is.

 

Yes.

 

What do you expect from a backup middle infielder? His VORP was 6.6 (OK, not good) with ++ defense.

 

I'm not sure I agree that his defense is "++", some defensive metrics(PMR) rate him down the chain a little bit, certainly not enough to make up for his atrocious offense. Speaking of which, I expect a little more than one of the worst hitters of the generation on my team's roster. IF that type of production is inevitable, there's good reason to avoid Neifi He's been sucking for a long time, at least with someone who is younger(whether that be a prospect or another player of Neifi's caliber in his prime years) you have the potential of offensive improvement. Neifi's a known black hole, and at his age he could get worse. He's also overpaid, and is a crappy veteran with a manager who loves him for dumb reasons("he saved us", pitcher chats on the mound where pitchers probably want to punch him in the face, etc.) and will use him even beyond the role he shouldn't be in.

 

1) Admittedly defensive metrics are still in their infancy however most I've seen rate Nefei as a very good SS.

2) Nefei's contract and manager isn't his problem - it's Hendry's.

 

Again, what do you expect from a backup middle infielder?

 

I told you. Someone who isn't an offensive abomination, and if we are forced to accept a defensive oriented guy who can't hit, at least get someone younger with the potential to give you something, anything at the offensive end. The rest that is out of his control was tacked on to the end to why he's particularly bad for this team.

 

What should the minimum stat line be for an avg fielding backup SS? Not trolling, just curious.

 

Tough question, because the pool of players you're looking at is diverse. When looking at a prospect, I'd say he'd need pretty good minor league offensive numbers. Nothing outstanding, even for the position, but numbers that would probably net them a starting role if they repeat them in the bigs. Mike Fontenot(.272/.377/.430 at Iowa last year), although he doesn't play shortstop, is a decent example of such a player, although even someone with say a .350/.400(OBP/SLG) would work depending on their full body of work(physical tools, fielding ability, full minor league history). In the case of a more journeyman type player, Neifi sets an appropriate baseline, as very few players find themselves on base as little as he does. Again, not to say blindly dump Neifi for a guy that has similar numbers but is a couple years younger, the other factors previously mentioned play a role.

 

Also, for the record, I advocated going after Furcal/Lugo/etc this offseason, because I wanted Cedeno in Neifi's role this year. That gets Cedeno more major league time and he is still able to help the big league club, then he either moves to 2B(if you get Furcal and Walker departs to FA) or takes the full time SS role(Lugo leaves for FA). It also keeps dead weight like Neifi off the club. But the Cubs are stuck with Neifi, and the rest of the nightmarish moves Hendry made this offseason, so I guess I can dream that Neifi goes crazy and gets himself moved.

 

Oh, come on, Tiger, get real.

 

Firstly, Neifi's defence is excellent. Please.

 

Right, Neifi's bat is next to useless. However, he is only "one of the worst hitters of his generation" by measure of a cumulative metric that penalises him for having been miscast all too frequently as a starting shortstop, which is not a consideration relevant to discussions of him as a backup middle infielder.

 

You seem to be under some misguided illusion that you could plug any random minor leaguer into his spot and get superior production. What an absolute nonsense. Any young middle infielder that can be reasonably expected to immediately provide some kind of positive offensive contribution and defensive value equivalent to Neifi's goes by the name of "a very good prospect".

 

The Cubs presently only have one of this type in their entire system, and his name is Ronny Cedeno. Rightly he's been given the starting role, ahead of Neifi Perez I might add. He's not been relegated to a backup role where he'd see little playing time and potentially stagnate. Burying a player that clearly has the potential to in future contribute in a greater capacity is among the best ways to make sure he never does.

 

Veterans serve purposes. They can fill spots that you don't want young players in. You don't want young players with potential left to rot on the bench, so you use veterans without potential in those spots. Neifi Perez, if he was used correctly, would do that job just fine. You want to look around the league at what better backup middle infield options there are.

 

Certainly no-one else in the Cub system save perhaps Ryan Theriot has even the remotest chance of outperforming Neifi this year if they were given the job of backup middle infielder over him. Whether Theriot could is open to debate. With the exception of one 53 game stint in 2003, he's always been about two years old for his league, he's also never played above Double-A, yet his career minor league numbers still read a very unimpressive .269/.353/.336. Certainly, his control of the strikezone has been extremely impressive, with a career 212/213/1923 BB/K/PA, but whether that'd translate against significantly more advanced pitching is very debatable, and there's no question that he doesn't have any power whatsoever. His defence is very good, and he's a decent baserunner.

 

The only thing Theriot has over Neifi is his salary, and that Dusty would presumably be less inclined to use him inappropriately.

 

However, neither of those things reflect on Neifi's ability as a backup middle infielder. The first, the issue of money, is a product of Hendry's sheer stupidity; the second, the issue of playing time, is a product of Dusty's.

 

Now that the contract is signed and the budget set, there's nothing we can do about the money this year at least (short of trading Neifi without having to eat some of his salary, which is unlikely considering that every single team in the majors besides perhaps the Washington Nationals has absolutely no need of a starting shortstop called Neifi Perez or a backup middle infielder earning that kind of money), and so continuing to whine about it not only misses the point, but is also somewhat annoyingly repetitive.

 

As for playing time, a much more effective solution than getting rid of Neifi Perez would be to get rid of Dusty Baker, or at least to have someone scream at him until he gets it.

[ryno-mvp23]

"I do care about starting," he said. "But I started out [as a backup] last year and look at what happened. Let's see what happens.

 

"If they need someone ready to play, they don't know how [Cedeno] is going to be in the big leagues for a whole year.

 

"Ronny is a really good shortstop, but sometimes you need a veteran in the middle. So let's see what happens. I'm not mad. I'm excited to be here."

 

These are some pretty obnoxious quotes. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to see that Neifi wants Cedeno to fail. How about a link? Personally I wouldn't post something like this without letting people know where it came from.

 

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-060306cubs,1,1825970.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

[Balsa]

Really I think people are over-reacting a bit to those quotes. I think part of it is that they were taken out of context.

 

This is how I imagine the interview going:

 

Reporter: At the end of last year, you mentioned not wanting to sign anywhere where you wouldn't start, yet you resigned with the cubs, who are playing rookie Ronny Cedeno next year. Do you not care about starting anymore?

 

Neifi: "I do care about starting," he said. "But I started out [as a backup] last year and look at what happened. Let's see what happens.

 

Reporter: But what if you don't play? What if Cedeno starts every game?

 

Neifi: "If they need someone ready to play, they don't know how [Cedeno] is going to be in the big leagues for a whole year."

 

Reporter: Are you bitter about Ronny Cedeno getting your job?

 

Neifi: "Ronny is a really good shortstop, but sometimes you need a veteran in the middle. So let's see what happens. I'm not mad. I'm excited to be here."

 

 

I really don't see where the big issue here is. Aside from the fact that everyone can't stand Neifi. Which is somewhat understandable. But he certainly didn't say anything out of line here.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't blame Neifi for thinking he can start. I don't think it's very helpful to talk about your doubts for Cedeno to make it, but nothing he said was crazy. You have to place blame on Dusty for foolishly talking about how much Neifi saved the team last year, and for parts of the media for perpetuating that outlandish myth.

[frostwyrm]

I think some of you are being too kind to Neifi. He doesn't come right out and say it, but I think his quotes clearly reflect that he relishes the prospect of Cedeno failing. I detect some nasty selfishness in that "let's see what happens" quote. If Walker produced quotes like this the media would be all over him.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think some of you are being too kind to Neifi. He doesn't come right out and say it, but I think his quotes clearly reflect that he relishes the prospect of Cedeno failing. I detect some nasty selfishness in that "let's see what happens" quote. If Walker produced quotes like this the media would be all over him.

 

I did pick that up. I think he's thinking that the Cubs will give Cedeno his shot, he'll stumble, and Dusty will turn to the veteran that "saved" them last season.

 

It's time to trade the malcontent~

[goonys evil twin]

I think some of you are being too kind to Neifi. He doesn't come right out and say it, but I think his quotes clearly reflect that he relishes the prospect of Cedeno failing. I detect some nasty selfishness in that "let's see what happens" quote. If Walker produced quotes like this the media would be all over him.

 

I did pick that up. I think he's thinking that the Cubs will give Cedeno his shot, he'll stumble, and Dusty will turn to the veteran that "saved" them last season.

 

It's time to trade the malcontent~

 

Again, you have to blame Dusty for planting that seed in his head. I'm all for dumping Neifi the Worthless on the side of the road, but he's just a symptom of the disease that is Dustyball.