Prior delayed again

[goonys evil twin]

It's a pretty safe bet Prior has not taken a batted ball off the elbow or collided with any second basemen yet this year, so if he's not injury prone, there should be nothing wrong with him. Considering he's thrown all of his scheduled sessions this spring training, I don't see any reason to worry. All I've heard this spring is that Rothschild wants to take a different approach with Prior, and if that means he's on a different timetable than everybody else, then so be it.

 

It still makes no sense. Healthy pitchers are not treated this way. I could see a little extra caution early, but this is getting silly. If you don't see anything odd about the way they are handling him, so be it, but there is definitely reason to worry, and justification for expressing concern.

[cl smooth]

It still makes no sense. Healthy pitchers are not treated this way. I could see a little extra caution early, but this is getting silly. If you don't see anything odd about the way they are handling him, so be it, but there is definitely reason to worry, and justification for expressing concern.

 

i agree. part of me is saying "it's march 6th. don't worry about this..." but why are they being so careful with him if he's only had a "really bad virus" during the off-season? something doesn't add up.

[noisesquared]

It's a pretty safe bet Prior has not taken a batted ball off the elbow or collided with any second basemen yet this year, so if he's not injury prone, there should be nothing wrong with him. Considering he's thrown all of his scheduled sessions this spring training, I don't see any reason to worry. All I've heard this spring is that Rothschild wants to take a different approach with Prior, and if that means he's on a different timetable than everybody else, then so be it.

 

It still makes no sense. Healthy pitchers are not treated this way. I could see a little extra caution early, but this is getting silly. If you don't see anything odd about the way they are handling him, so be it, but there is definitely reason to worry, and justification for expressing concern.

 

I agree that the handling of Prior is odd, but they've indicated that they weren't going to handle him normally this spring. Granted the Cubs track record regarding injury has been pretty spotty lately, but nothing has happened yet to make me thing anything is wrong. When Prior is scratched for a start or shut down for a week, then I'll start to worry.

[Tim]

There are quite a few pitchers around MLB (many premiere guys) who haven't made their spring debut yet. We're through four games here. It's not like we've gone two weeks at this point and he's yet to see action. It's not like he isn't throwing.

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

[jjgman21]

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

exactly. if they had Wood pitching with a sore knee and later on the knee became a problem, or if they worked Prior like they have in the past and something went wrong, the same people who are crucifying the Cubs now would be on here saying "why didn't they take care of Wood's knee in ST" and "why didn't they handle Prior differently this year after all the problems he had in ST 2004 and 05?"

[goonys evil twin]

There are quite a few pitchers around MLB (many premiere guys) who haven't made their spring debut yet. We're through four games here. It's not like we've gone two weeks at this point and he's yet to see action. It's not like he isn't throwing.

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

Most pitchers who haven't pitched yet are doing so because of some physical issue, like Pedro and his toe. The Cubs on the other hand are going with the cryptic, there is no schedule routine, and literally taking it day-by-day. You don't do that with 100% healthy pitchers.

[goonys evil twin]

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

exactly. if they had Wood pitching with a sore knee and later on the knee became a problem, or if they worked Prior like they have in the past and something went wrong, the same people who are crucifying the Cubs now would be on here saying "why didn't they take care of Wood's knee in ST" and "why didn't they handle Prior differently this year after all the problems he had in ST 2004 and 05?"

 

You are suggesting then that there is something wrong that needs to be taken care of. I'm not crucifying the Cubs for "taking care of Prior in spring training", I'm questioning the claim that he's 100%.

[Tim]

There are quite a few pitchers around MLB (many premiere guys) who haven't made their spring debut yet. We're through four games here. It's not like we've gone two weeks at this point and he's yet to see action. It's not like he isn't throwing.

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

Most pitchers who haven't pitched yet are doing so because of some physical issue, like Pedro and his toe. The Cubs on the other hand are going with the cryptic, there is no schedule routine, and literally taking it day-by-day. You don't do that with 100% healthy pitchers.

Why is that Maddux hasn't pitched yet?

[goonys evil twin]

There are quite a few pitchers around MLB (many premiere guys) who haven't made their spring debut yet. We're through four games here. It's not like we've gone two weeks at this point and he's yet to see action. It's not like he isn't throwing.

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

Most pitchers who haven't pitched yet are doing so because of some physical issue, like Pedro and his toe. The Cubs on the other hand are going with the cryptic, there is no schedule routine, and literally taking it day-by-day. You don't do that with 100% healthy pitchers.

Why is that Maddux hasn't pitched yet?

 

He's old.

 

Listen, I'm not here saying I think Prior needs Tommy John surgery. I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable to question the Cubs handling of him and absolutely ridiculous to blast people for bringing it up.

[Chocolate Milk]

Ok so, the beef here is that Prior isn't throwing to batters yet? He' still throwing but not to batters, is this right? If he's still throwing, I'm confused about how not throwing to batters means that he's unhealthy. Honest question.

[Tim]

There are quite a few pitchers around MLB (many premiere guys) who haven't made their spring debut yet. We're through four games here. It's not like we've gone two weeks at this point and he's yet to see action. It's not like he isn't throwing.

 

We all want the Cubs to do a better job keeping these guys healthy. Yet when they try something different in an effort to do just that, we have people crucifying them for "hiding something".

 

Let me be different and applaud them for their efforts to get Prior to April 3rd healthy.

 

Most pitchers who haven't pitched yet are doing so because of some physical issue, like Pedro and his toe. The Cubs on the other hand are going with the cryptic, there is no schedule routine, and literally taking it day-by-day. You don't do that with 100% healthy pitchers.

Why is that Maddux hasn't pitched yet?

 

He's old.

 

Listen, I'm not here saying I think Prior needs Tommy John surgery. I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable to question the Cubs handling of him and absolutely ridiculous to blast people for bringing it up.

Perfectly reasonable to question things? Sure.

 

Perfectly reasonable to ask whether the sky is falling everytime a cloud passes overhead? Not really, but if it floats the boat...

 

Basically, you are claiming a conspiracy theory and calling the Cubs liars about Prior based on evidence that they had him throw a full-speed 50 pitch bullpen session instead of starting him in a game. Meanwhile, you simply write off their doing something similar with Maddux because, "he's old." I guess I just don't see the basis of evidence to blast the Cubs at this point. I'm going to take them at their word that they are merely trying something different to see if they can get Prior ready for the season in a different way. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, nor do I feel it necessarily means that he's injured and that something is being hidden. There are so many other options that to put that as an either/or decision is highly spurious.

[goonys evil twin]

Ok so, the beef here is that Prior isn't throwing to batters yet? He' still throwing but not to batters, is this right? If he's still throwing, I'm confused about how not throwing to batters means that he's unhealthy. Honest question.

 

Guys throw in rehab all the time, that doesn't mean they are 100%. The concern is due to the "throwing off the mound" thing (the Cubs practically celebrated that delayed event as some sort of accomplishment), and the continued lack of a timeframe. If the team had a plan to have Prior only throw side sessions and not to batters through early March, fine. But they keep talking about how there is no schedule and they are taking it day by day. If there is no schedule, you don't have a firm grasp of how he is progressing or likely to progress, and you don't know if he's 100%. If you don't know he's 100%, that is cause for concern.

 

 

The Cubs are taking the out of spite reaction to all the criticism about their terrible handling of past injury recovery schedules. Instead of risk missing a date, they throw out no date. The problem with that is if they are worried about Prior missing dates, they are worried about his health in the first place, because why would he miss dates if he was 100% healthy?

[goonys evil twin]

Perfectly reasonable to question things? Sure.

 

Perfectly reasonable to ask whether the sky is falling everytime a cloud passes overhead? Not really, but if it floats the boat...

 

Basically, you are claiming a conspiracy theory and calling the Cubs liars about Prior based on evidence that they had him throw a full-speed 50 pitch bullpen session instead of starting him in a game. Meanwhile, you simply write off their doing something similar with Maddux because, "he's old."

 

Who the heck is talking about the sky is falling? Why the heck is bringing up the topic considered sky is falling BS? Why do people have such a problem with others expressing concern of the oddities surrounding the Mark Prior spring training circus? The Cubs laugh off concern expressed by outsiders as a sort of "How dare they question us" mentality. I'm not here blasting the Cubs. I'm raising questions and I'm questioning those who wish to marginalize others who ask similar questions by pretending any lack of faith in the Cubs efforts is akin to sky is falling absurdity.

 

I don't see how anybody could think everything is perfectly fine, given the history and the current path they are taking. Everything is not perfectly fine until we see Prior pitching regularly and effectively, and for whatever reason, the Cubs don't seem interested in exposing him to such scrutiny anytime soon.

 

The Maddux thing was a joke. He's gone forever pitching healthy, and he's in a position to do what he pleases as he prepares and not be questioned about his health. Prior's history does not allow for such faith.

[RynoRules]

People on this bd. who know me understand that I am not the first guy to pick up the picthfork and torch, but I agree with Goony here. Something stinks; mainly b/c I have heard all too often that Cubs Pitcher X is fine, and he's just being "brought along slowly". Surely the Cubs' history of doing this sort of thing counts for something.

[craig]

I think the Cubs have been reasonable on Prior. It's been almost a year since he had his problems last spring, and Rothschild said that he had special issues that would in future require special precautions. That future is now, this spring.

 

Is Prior 100% and 100% like everybody else? He says no. He says that after the past two springs and all the doctor exams, that they know what gives, and he called it Ulnar Splint Stress Reaction or something like that.

 

Is a guy with "USSR" 100% and 100% like other big-league pitchers? I would guess not.

 

Does a guy with "USSR" have a chance to be an effective big-league pitcher? Absolutely.

 

Does a guy with USSR have a chance to be as great as was once expected for Prior, back when he had a big-time fastball, was considered to be one of the best control artists in the game, and was considered to be the perfect physical specimen with the strong legs and the perfect mechanics, etc? Well, he might have a chance. But perhaps the odds don't look nearly as good as they used to.

 

Is this USSR stuff a fraud? Possible, I suppose, although I don't see the logic in making it up if Prior hasn't been told that and doesn't believe it. Is this USSR stuff just a small factor, and his shoulder is ready to fall off is a larger issue? Well, decide for yourself.

 

I don't see much problem with how the Cubs have done things, other than that Prior started into his regimen so late. If his special USSR requires such a special, unique, and gradual buildup, I don't see why he didn't start easing into things a little earlier.

 

But as Tim said, we fuss if the Cubs are careless with their irreplacable pitching assets. But then if they do take special precautions and care, then we fuss because they aren't doing the same thing everybody else does.

 

We fuss if they suggest a date that isn't exactly realized. But then we fuss if they don't set a firm date.

 

Seems to me that the "day at a time" is reasonable, if each next step depends on the response to the previous one. In Prior's case, they have set "dates". They've said all along they thought he'd be ready for opening rotation. And they said earlier on that they expected him to be ready by the second week of exhibition games, now that's maybe been moved back a week.

 

Seems to me that Prior's spin in all of his interviews has been very confident, much more so than seemed true in either of the last two seasons. I don't get the feeling that he's had any big problems thus far.

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure how much that proves. Roth said last year that Prior's curveball delivery places a lot of stress on his arm, and that was primarily the source of his problem. But while Roth and Prior have been talking favorably about how fine his arm has felt, in the stories this morning it was said that he has been throwing almost exclusively fastballs. That he only just starting spinning a few curveballs in recent session, IIRC. We'll see how it holds up once he's throwing his normal dose of curveballs.

 

If it's a curveball-induced pain, not sure what it proves to be feeling fine when he hasn't been throwing any/many.

[Jon]

Prior is on a schedule and there have been several cubs.com articles and others talking about the different approach they're taking this spring and what they're focusing on. This is from a couple of weeks ago:

 

Cubs.com[/url]"]"We're doing a lot more endurance," Prior said Tuesday. "I've been on throwing programs before but this is a little bit more structured and we're trying to build up more arm strength, doing extended amounts of sets, if that makes sense. I'm sitting out there throwing 20, 25 at a certain distance, then taking a little break, then going back a little farther.

 

"It's a lot more structured," he said. "I think I'm responding to it well. We talked about it last year to take it slower, a little more methodical. I don't enjoy not being on the mound right now. But whatever you're dealt with, you deal with it."

 

He had a nasty respiratory infection, he was delayed, and now he's throwing. They're trying a different approach this year and things seem to be going well. During the game yesterday, Larry raved about Prior's session yesterday morning. There really isn't anything that the Cubs are saying now that is inconsistent with what they've been saying for a while. I can't say I'm really worried.

[Rooftop Bum]

Well my opinion on it is simply this. I will believe Prior is ok when we see him facing some batters either in ST or his first start and take it from there. I can see why people are seeing red flags. I had a funny feeling Wood was not feeling as fine as they claimed earlier. I kind of have that same sensation with Prior as well. If eveything is okey dokie smokie he would be facing batters IMO. But I am no trainer or coach just a paranoid Cub fan here. I have my doubts on Prior's health. That's all. I am not gonna freak out about it though unless they comeback and say "Mark needs minor surgery on something to."

[frostwyrm]

I am an extreme cynic about the Cubs and their sleazy history of misinformation but I think it's too early to freak out over Prior. Kerry is another case. I've quit freaking out over him. I permanently gave up on him as a reliable starter even before last season ended, so announcements of Kerry's problems don't bug me so much.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Will Carroll gives a mention to Wood and Prior in his Under the Knife article this week.

 

When it comes to surgery on a pitcher, it's rarely considered minor, particularly when Kerry Wood is the pitcher. As the Cubs continue to take heat on Wood and Mark Prior--pitchers that Jay Mariotti is now calling “Blue Cross” and “Blue Shield”--Wood is headed for what is accurately called minor knee surgery. The consequences, however, are not minor. Wood will have a small piece of his torn medial meniscus taken out of his push knee by Dr. Lewis Yocum. The rehab period for this is very short, perhaps as little as ten days, but this will set Wood back by as much as a month. The Cubs will have him throwing as often as possible--he was on a mound the day before surgery, echoing what he did before shoulder surgery last fall--hoping to have him back as close to May 1 as possible. Prior, on the other hand, continues to progress slowly. Whether he’s injured or not remains to be seen, but the Cubs are certainly treating him as if he is. Results are all that count and we’re weeks away from getting a definitive view on Prior’s status.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Will Carroll gives a mention to Wood and Prior in his Under the Knife article this week.

 

When it comes to surgery on a pitcher, it's rarely considered minor, particularly when Kerry Wood is the pitcher. As the Cubs continue to take heat on Wood and Mark Prior--pitchers that Jay Mariotti is now calling “Blue Cross” and “Blue Shield”--Wood is headed for what is accurately called minor knee surgery. The consequences, however, are not minor. Wood will have a small piece of his torn medial meniscus taken out of his push knee by Dr. Lewis Yocum. The rehab period for this is very short, perhaps as little as ten days, but this will set Wood back by as much as a month. The Cubs will have him throwing as often as possible--he was on a mound the day before surgery, echoing what he did before shoulder surgery last fall--hoping to have him back as close to May 1 as possible. Prior, on the other hand, continues to progress slowly. Whether he’s injured or not remains to be seen, but the Cubs are certainly treating him as if he is. Results are all that count and we’re weeks away from getting a definitive view on Prior’s status.

 

I wish Carroll would have explained how Wood missing a week to 10 days b/c of knee surgery costs him a month. :?

[goonys evil twin]

I wish Carroll would have explained how Wood missing a week to 10 days b/c of knee surgery costs him a month. :?

 

The theory would be that the longer he is out due to the knee, his pitching related delay increases exponentially. It's not a 1 for 1 situation, where if you miss 1 day, you take 1 extra day to prepare. What he's saying is everyday he misses could setback his recovery from his shoulder. It would erase the progress to date and force him to almost start over where he was a week to 10 days prior to the surgery.

 

But I think he was saying "as much as a month" meaning worst case scenario. If he can't do much throwing for 10 days (doubtful, from what I can tell) then 10 days after the surgery he would essentially be where he was several days prior to the surgery, and would then have to start from that point moving forward. I also think that was taking into account the idea that Wood might have started by mid-April, something I always thought was doubtful.

[badger1679666666]

I wish Carroll would have explained how Wood missing a week to 10 days b/c of knee surgery costs him a month. :?

 

The theory would be that the longer he is out due to the knee, his pitching related delay increases exponentially. It's not a 1 for 1 situation, where if you miss 1 day, you take 1 extra day to prepare. What he's saying is everyday he misses could setback his recovery from his shoulder. It would erase the progress to date and force him to almost start over where he was a week to 10 days prior to the surgery.

 

But I think he was saying "as much as a month" meaning worst case scenario. If he can't do much throwing for 10 days (doubtful, from what I can tell) then 10 days after the surgery he would essentially be where he was several days prior to the surgery, and would then have to start from that point moving forward. I also think that was taking into account the idea that Wood might have started by mid-April, something I always thought was doubtful.

 

I thought Woody was only missing one day of "pitching"/arm strength throwing? I thought tomorrow he will be throwing from a chair to maintain arm strength and then when he can put pressure on the leg he will play flat footed long toss etc.

[goonys evil twin]

I thought Woody was only missing one day of "pitching"/arm strength throwing? I thought tomorrow he will be throwing from a chair to maintain arm strength and then when he can put pressure on the leg he will play flat footed long toss etc.

 

That's the hope. Although you never know with surgery. And I'm skeptical about how helpful the "chair tossing" will be. Some have said it could be as much as a week to 10 days before he can throw with normal motion. If that is the case, it's possible his progress, or at least part of it, could be erased.

[2242005CY]

Ok so, the beef here is that Prior isn't throwing to batters yet? He' still throwing but not to batters, is this right? If he's still throwing, I'm confused about how not throwing to batters means that he's unhealthy. Honest question.

 

Because there's an order and a progression in ST and when you first get to camp you start by throwing off the mound and THEN once you've shown adequate arm strength and control and proper mechanics etc, then you progress to facing live hitters.

 

There is a BIG and obvious difference between just throwing off a mound per say and progressing to the point of face live hitters with wooden weapons.

[goonys evil twin]

The Cubs on the other hand are going with the cryptic, there is no schedule routine, and literally taking it day-by-day. You don't do that with 100% healthy pitchers.

Why is that Maddux hasn't pitched yet?

 

Well, I guess Greg is pitching today, and Prior's status is still up-in-the-air. I guess that would indicate they aren't taking similar approaches with the two of them. Hopefully Mark's able to get some game action within a week (although Larry says it's too early to tell), or else we're going to start getting pretty close to opening week, and if Prior isn't stretched out, it will be that more likely that they waste a roster sport on another bullpen arm who will sit for 10 games at a time. That's if Prior is able to start the season I guess.