The Phillies did offer Abreu for Prior.

[UK1679666180]

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13606464.htm

 

I'm dying to know which team almost completed the trade for Abreu.

 

Such talks led to the Phillies asking for Cubs starter Mark Prior at the winter meetings, which the Cubs, according to several sources, briefly considered.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While I'm not in favor of trading Prior, if the Phillies had been willing to toss back a Gavin Floyd with him, I would have thought very hard about it.

[RockTheIvy]

This scares me. Does this mean that Hendry thinks Tejada is more valuable than Abreu? When we had a hole in RF?

[Drew Doughty]

I think it was more that there was someone (Jones, Encarnacion, Burnitz if he really wanted) available through FA than there was at SS.

 

Either that or Hendry is more stupid than I really imagined.

[RockTheIvy]

I think it was more that there was someone (Jones, Encarnacion, Burnitz if he really wanted) available through FA than there was at SS.

 

Either that or Hendry is more stupid than I really imagined.

 

It's just that we had no one to play RF, but two guys (Ron Ce and Neifi!) who could play SS. And Tejada, offensively, has nothing on Abreu. Ugh.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This scares me. Does this mean that Hendry thinks Tejada is more valuable than Abreu? When we had a hole in RF?

 

No I don't. In the Tejada deal, Hendry was asking for Bedard if he traded Prior. That supposedly was part of the hold up. It could be that Hendry didn't feel that Phily had or would include a pitcher comparable to Bedard back if he dealt Prior.

[RockTheIvy]

This scares me. Does this mean that Hendry thinks Tejada is more valuable than Abreu? When we had a hole in RF?

 

No I don't. In the Tejada deal, Hendry was asking for Bedard if he traded Prior. That supposedly was part of the hold up. It could be that Hendry didn't feel that Phily had or would include a pitcher comparable to Bedard back if he dealt Prior.

 

Well then I would've hoped Hendry at least asked about Floyd, as you had also stated.

[katway]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

[RockTheIvy]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

 

Except that we had a SS who could be as capable defensively as Tejada.

 

Plus I would argue that Abreu is a better hitter than Tejada. Abreu is a career 303/.411/.512 hitter. Tejada is a .280/.338/.477. Abreu, as you can see, has a tremendous OBP advantage, something the Cubs are seriously lacking.

[RynoRules]

A while back I speculated that the Philly deal for Abreu b/c the Phills would not include pitching with Abreu in return for Prior. Looks like that has some legs.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

 

Abreu is much much better offensively, it's not close.

[RynoRules]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

 

Abreu is much much better offensively, it's not close.

 

And he's has greater value relative to the Cubs needs.

[DougDascenzo]

and hes left handed

[radarluv1]

and a gold glover :D

[erik316wttn]

Wow. That's a hard one.

 

I guess the ONLY reason you turn this down is because Prior is so young.

 

I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

[KatJ]

Wow. That's a hard one.

 

I guess the ONLY reason you turn this down is because Prior is so young.

 

I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

 

That wouldn't be the only reason. Big factor for me would be our own rotation. If we had three guaranteed aces (or, in Maddux's case, past aces) without Prior, or Hendry would have bothered to score another inning-eater (it's a shame Jon Lieber signed last year for so much money), or both, I think I would have made that trade.

 

Miggy is not, and never has been, worth it, folks. Too expensive for the itchy trigger at bat. The Cubs need another impatient hitter as much as they need Dusty Baker as manager.

[katway]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

 

Abreu is much much better offensively, it's not close.

 

And he's has greater value relative to the Cubs needs.

 

I disagree since we also need to look at the end result following a deal. For instance, with no decent free agents at SS or 2b, trading for Abreu leaves us with Abreu, Cedeno, and Perez. Trading for Tejada still gives us the room to obtain Jones with an end result of Tejada, Jones and Cedeno. Tejada, Jones, and Cedeno > Abreu, Cedeno, and Perez. Plus, that's a younger team with a brighter future. I get the feeling Abreu is at the end of his prime years.

[RockTheIvy]

Tejada is more valuable than Abreu. He is younger, plays a position with a greater degree of difficulty, and is owned less for the next two years than Abreu. He is as good a hitter as Abreu and has a greater upside.

 

Abreu is much much better offensively, it's not close.

 

And he's has greater value relative to the Cubs needs.

 

I disagree since we also need to look at the end result following a deal. For instance, with no decent free agents at SS or 2b, trading for Abreu leaves us with Abreu, Cedeno, and Perez. Trading for Tejada still gives us the room to obtain Jones with an end result of Tejada, Jones and Cedeno. Tejada, Jones, and Cedeno > Abreu, Cedeno, and Perez. Plus, that's a younger team with a brighter future. I get the feeling Abreu is at the end of his prime years.

 

First off, we would still have Walker and Hairston. The idea of Cedeno, Neifi/Hairston/Walker, Abreu is much more productive than Tejada, Cedeno, Jones. Secondly, Tejada is going to be in his age 30 season this year. So, while 2 years younger than Abreu, he's not all that young either. Finally, I think Tejada has four years left on his contract, compared with Abreu's two remaining years. That would give the team more flexibility in the short term.

[Cubzfan64]

With the position the Cubs are in going into 2006, I would never personally have traded Prior for Abreu.

 

I do believe in the theory that good pitching is generally what wins you championships - not good hitting. Our rotation without Mark Prior going into 2006 would not have looked very good at all considering we have no idea what if anything Wood will provide and Maddux is quite likely only going to continue to decline in ability. If we had a couple top minor league arms ready to come up and fill some spots, I might chance it but I don't think that's the case.

 

I'm becoming more and more convinced that our window of opportunity with some very good young arms is being slowly overused and wasted because we've been extremely unsuccessful in putting together a solid offense as a supporting cast. It's sad really because we don't even need an All Star offensive lineup - we just have a few pieces of the puzzle that are missing.

 

My only hopes are that one or both of Cedeno/Murton becomes a "caught lightning in a bottle" player in 2006, that Jones can outproduce Burnitz, that Pierre is at least an upgrade over last years leadoff hitters and that our starting pitching stays at least reasonably healthy. If even some of those things happen I believe we have a shot - I just hate the fact that we have to rely on so many if's.

[Guest]

Do you guys think if Philly still wants to trade Abreu for pitching they would take something less than Mark Prior.

 

A package of Williams, Murton, Guzman, and Walker(or another pitching prospect).

 

After reading the article, I can't tell how much Philly wants to trade Abreu but I think the Cubs should ask and offer a package similar to the one I just said.

 

The Cubs could then have an OF of Jones, Pierre, and Abreu with Jones moving to LF. Cedeno stays at SS with Hairston as our starting 2B.

 

The lineup would then look like this

 

Pierre

Cedeno

Lee

Abreu

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Hairston

 

I like it.

[Drew Doughty]

I don't think they want an OF in return, they're log jammed, aren't they?

[Gunned]

Do you guys think if Philly still wants to trade Abreu for pitching they would take something less than Mark Prior.

 

A package of Williams, Murton, Guzman, and Walker(or another pitching prospect).

 

I'm sure Pie would have to be included. And probably Hill, too. And for Abreu, that's just fine with me.

[Guest]

I actually forgot about Pie :)

 

Even though they probably don't need OFers as a poster mentioned, they will still probably want our best prospect which is Pie that is true.

 

Very rarely if at all a team trades 6 players for just 1 so I think a trade could look like this.

 

Williams(not a #1 or even #2 but still young with solid major league experience), Pie, Hill, and perhaps Walker or another pitching.

 

This is a trade I would make although I am not sure Philly would. I would rather give up another pitching prospect instead of Walker though because I still think he is our best 2B.

 

So, Philly gets Williams who is the major league ready pitcher they wanted, our best hitter prospect, Hill who could also be ML ready, and perhaps another pitcher prospect who is good.

 

I can't really see how this would not improve their team.

 

I hope Hendry at least talks to them about making a trade that would not include Prior.

[Soul]

Wow. That's a hard one.

 

I guess the ONLY reason you turn this down is because Prior is so young.

 

I'd have to think long and hard about that one.

 

Just my opinion, but I think you turn it down because pitching is still more important, Prior is one of our only chances at having an actual 20-win ace (& Z, of course), and our starting rotation is hanging by a thread.

[waffle]

I don't think they want an OF in return, they're log jammed, aren't they?

 

I live in philly and read about dem phils every day.

 

Correct, they have 1 too many guys out there. It has hardly been a secret that the phils would consider moving abreu, in fact I am fairly confident he will not be a Phil come opening day.

 

I think they MIGHT fall for a package that included Williams. Trust me, Williams is JUST THE KIND OF PLAYER the phils fall for, again and again. Young with a big upside, not yet reached. They are bargain basement shoppers and always have been.

 

But Prior straight up? Not a chance. And philly isn't really in a position to give us a rotation level starter in return.

 

Abreu is a VERY serviceable player, not great, but pretty darn good. Exactly how did he get a gold glove???? He is a very selective hitter and with some talent around him I think could continue to put up pretty nice #'s.