Offman (the Score) reporting Cubs hot after Lugo

[wastra]

Tampa has to be one of the most difficult teams to deal with. Are they asking for Prior?

They have new ownership and a new GM. I don't think the book is out on them yet.

 

Good to know. Can they send us Huff too then. :)

 

Might I suggest Jaque jones for Huff and Lugo? :wink: :D

[CardsFanInChiTown]

According to ESPN's Rumors:

 

Lugo for Marte?

Jan 9 - The Red Sox continue their conversations about infielder Julio Lugo with the Devil Rays, The Boston Globe reports. The D-Rays have asked the Sox for third base prospect Andy Marte, whom Boston received from Atlanta in the Edgar Renteria deal. The Sox have been unwilling to part with Marte, but they may feel greater urgency to make a deal than Tampa Bay.

The Sox have said they're willing to start the season with Alex Cora at short, with rookie Dustin Pedroia, who played second last season in the minors, also getting a look there.

 

Looks like Marte would net Lugo, I was under the impression that wasn't enough...

[jtownie]

According to ESPN's Rumors:

 

Lugo for Marte?

Jan 9 - The Red Sox continue their conversations about infielder Julio Lugo with the Devil Rays, The Boston Globe reports. The D-Rays have asked the Sox for third base prospect Andy Marte, whom Boston received from Atlanta in the Edgar Renteria deal. The Sox have been unwilling to part with Marte, but they may feel greater urgency to make a deal than Tampa Bay.

The Sox have said they're willing to start the season with Alex Cora at short, with rookie Dustin Pedroia, who played second last season in the minors, also getting a look there.

 

Looks like Marte would net Lugo, I was under the impression that wasn't enough...

 

I believe there was a story that had a quote from the Tampa GM stating that had Marte been offered for Lugo they would have jumped on it. He was basically saying that the reported 3-way with Boston and Atlanta was false.

[frostwyrm]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

[goonys evil twin]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

I'm not fine with it if it means Lugo and Neifi are the SS and 2B.

[RockTheIvy]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production? If we have to trade Walker, I'd put Cedeno at 2B. That would be a pretty nifty defensive middle infield.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production? If we have to trade Walker, I'd put Cedeno at 2B. That would be a pretty nifty defensive middle infield.

 

He doesn't think Cedeno will get the chance with the inNeiffable Perez on the roster.

[E.J.]

Okay, so the Red Sox trade Renteria and $11 million to the Braves for Marte. Then they trade Marte to the Devil Rays for Lugo and his $5 million contract? So basically they're paying $16 million for a 1-year rental in Lugo? I don't see the Red Sox trading Marte for Lugo.

[frostwyrm]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production?

 

Could or would? Do you forget who our manager is? I promise you, if we have Lugo, Neifi, Cedeno, and Hairston on the roster we will all end up grossly disappointed with Cedeno's playing time and we'll all regret parting with whatever extremely valuable trading chips Hendry burned to get Lugo.

[RockTheIvy]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production?

 

Could or would? Do you forget who our manager is? I promise you, if we have Lugo, Neifi, Cedeno, and Hairston on the roster we will all end up grossly disappointed with Cedeno's playing time and we'll all regret parting with whatever extremely valuable trading chips Hendry burned to get Lugo.

 

Gawwd you and your ability to point out the obvious mistake in my rationale! :lol: I really hope Hendry puts a boot in his 4th point of contact to make sure Cedeno plays in 130+ games as a starter.

 

But if we were to get Lugo as a starter by trading Ron Ce, wouldn't we be in effect opening up the 2B job for Neifi! ?

[goonys evil twin]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production? If we have to trade Walker, I'd put Cedeno at 2B. That would be a pretty nifty defensive middle infield.

 

I think Cedeno could, but I'm not willing to assume he will.

 

There are many problems with trading Cedeno for Lugo though. Lugo isn't that good, and Perez is awful. Cedeno for Lugo means Neifi will more than likely start everyday. That might end up the case regardless, but at least if you keep Cedeno you have a chance of Neifi not hurting this lineup again. Lugo is a 30 year old MI with modest career stats coming off a peak season and approaching free agency. Unless he completely bombs this year, he will get a big money contract next offseason, something approaching the 4/32 range. And that would be a terrible deal for whoever signs him. He might repeated his 2005 numbers this season, and if he does it in the right market, with the right hype, he could get a 4/40 or more. And by the middle of that contract his new team will be regretting the move. He'll be a 32-33 year old middle infielder who has lost a step or two on defense, who has reverted back to his pre 2005 unimpressive offensive numbers.

 

Looking at his numbers on baseballreference.com you notice the list of similar batters. Five current SS on that list, with the already overpaid Furcal at the top. All younger. Similar through age 29, and the 2nd name of the list is Neifi. Very close is Blauser, who failed with the Cubs and was done by 33.

 

So, you trade Cedeno for him and this year's MI is Lugo/Perez. Just having Neifi in the same lineup with this poor OF is bad enough. Then you have to make the decision on whether to overpay him next year, likely regretting it within a year or two, or letting him go, in which case you traded Cedeno, and his chance to duplicate Lugo's (and so many other very similar SS in today's game) modest career, all while getting paid minimal salary for the next few seasons, and pre free agency dollars for several years after.

 

I don't see the value in the Cubs trading Cedeno for Lugo, not without follow-up moves that drastically improved this year's chances.

[RockTheIvy]

I really wish Dusty would just play Cedeno and Hairston at SS and 2B. Bat Hairston 2nd. That would be a poor man's version of the Pierre-Castillo duo. I think that would greatly improve our run scoring chances. Also I thought Hairston was a very good defensive 2B when healthy in Baltimore? Why not let the guy that we traded for a HOFer play?

[frostwyrm]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production? If we have to trade Walker, I'd put Cedeno at 2B. That would be a pretty nifty defensive middle infield.

 

I think Cedeno could, but I'm not willing to assume he will.

 

There are many problems with trading Cedeno for Lugo though. Lugo isn't that good, and Perez is awful. Cedeno for Lugo means Neifi will more than likely start everyday. That might end up the case regardless, but at least if you keep Cedeno you have a chance of Neifi not hurting this lineup again. Lugo is a 30 year old MI with modest career stats coming off a peak season and approaching free agency. Unless he completely bombs this year, he will get a big money contract next offseason, something approaching the 4/32 range. And that would be a terrible deal for whoever signs him. He might repeated his 2005 numbers this season, and if he does it in the right market, with the right hype, he could get a 4/40 or more. And by the middle of that contract his new team will be regretting the move. He'll be a 32-33 year old middle infielder who has lost a step or two on defense, who has reverted back to his pre 2005 unimpressive offensive numbers.

 

Looking at his numbers on baseballreference.com you notice the list of similar batters. Five current SS on that list, with the already overpaid Furcal at the top. All younger. Similar through age 29, and the 2nd name of the list is Neifi. Very close is Blauser, who failed with the Cubs and was done by 33.

 

So, you trade Cedeno for him and this year's MI is Lugo/Perez. Just having Neifi in the same lineup with this poor OF is bad enough. Then you have to make the decision on whether to overpay him next year, likely regretting it within a year or two, or letting him go, in which case you traded Cedeno, and his chance to duplicate Lugo's (and so many other very similar SS in today's game) modest career, all while getting paid minimal salary for the next few seasons, and pre free agency dollars for several years after.

 

I don't see the value in the Cubs trading Cedeno for Lugo, not without follow-up moves that drastically improved this year's chances.

 

Alright, let's assume Hendry uses some other valuable trading chip(s) to get Lugo. That leaves Lugo, Neifi, Cedeno, and Hairston all on the roster. Given that situation, how much playing time do you think Cedeno gets?

[BigbadB]

Did someone mention Huff? :D

 

He's the one that's been on my radar all offseason. Lugo is going to cost too much, and I don't see Tampa backing down on their demands for him. He's not "too" expensive for their budget and he provides a lot at a much bigger position of need for many teams. Tampa knows that there are teams in dire need of improving their shortstop situation, so they can hold out or simply keep him if they aren't happy with what other teams have to offer.

 

Huff, on the other hand, is easily replaceable with people they already have on their team. They brought back Lee to play 1st, they traded for Shawn Burroughs, and also already have Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, Upton and Young to make up plenty of offense in the outfield and DH. If they get Marte for Lugo, Burroughs probably slides into the lefty platoon DH spot.

 

Huff's asking price will plummet as it gets closer to Spring Training. How many teams have the financial resources to take on Huff's 7.5m contract, and how many would gamble that he might have another bad season like he did in 2005?

[RockTheIvy]

God, I know it's sooo frustrating. Hopefully this time Neifi! really is a reserve player.

[RockTheIvy]

Did someone mention Huff? :D

 

He's the one that's been on my radar all offseason. Lugo is going to cost too much, and I don't see Tampa backing down on their demands for him. He's not "too" expensive for their budget and he provides a lot at a much bigger position of need for many teams. Tampa knows that there are teams in dire need of improving their shortstop situation, so they can hold out or simply keep him if they aren't happy with what other teams have to offer.

 

Huff, on the other hand, is easily replaceable with people they already have on their team. They brought back Lee to play 1st, they traded for Shawn Burroughs, and also already have Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, Upton and Young to make up plenty of offense in the outfield and DH. If they get Marte for Lugo, Burroughs probably slides into the lefty platoon DH spot.

 

Huff's asking price will plummet as it gets closer to Spring Training. How many teams have the financial resources to take on Huff's 7.5m contract, and how many would gamble that he might have another bad season like he did in 2005?

 

At this point I say roll the dice. He's got the potential to be a very good power threat. Platoon him with Murton in left? That also strenghten's the bench too. I'd do it.

[Laura]

didnt Lugo get into some trouble? a couple of DWI's? why would Hendy ditch Farnsworth/Walker because they have character issues and go pick up Lugo if he has proven to carry baggage as well?

 

WTF is going on in the Trib tower?

 

Some sort of spousal abuse charge. A couple days later his wife admitted she either made it up or really exaggerated it, can't remember which. A bit unfortunate for Julio though, I think the Astros released him because of it.

 

He was charged with midemeanor assault after allegations that he assaulted his wife. A week later, she obtained a temporary restraining order against him.

 

The Astros released him after his arrest.* Tampa Bay signed him a few days later. Piniella was quoted at the time:

 

"Everybody makes mistakes," Piniella said. "You learn from mistakes and you go forward. At the same time we're looking to improve our baseball team. I don't think there are too many people walking streets that wouldn't take back a couple of things that they've done in their life, including myself."

 

When the case went to trial in Texas, Lugo said his wife attacked him and he defended himself. His wife recanted on the stand and various accounts have her saying that he didn't mean to hit her or that her injuries were self-inflicted as she tried to pull away away from him and banged her own head against the window. Lugo signed autographs for the jury after the verdict.

 

*They claimed a lot of credit for releasing him on moral grounds. Some cynics think that his lack of on-field production at the time may have contributed to that decision.

[goonys evil twin]

Alright, let's assume Hendry uses some other valuable trading chip(s) to get Lugo. That leaves Lugo, Neifi, Cedeno, and Hairston all on the roster. Given that situation, how much playing time do you think Cedeno gets?

 

Neifi was once a backup, and still could be if Hendry puts enough pressure on Dusty to start Cedeno. He's stated over and over that Cedeno is here to start. I don't know how sincere he is, but he was never that way with other young players who got the shaft. The most he offered Dubois was a chance to get some time. I could easily see Cedeno used as a utility man in that situation. But that at least gives you the option of letting Lugo go in the offseason (saving yourself from overpaying) and inserting Cedeno into the starting role then. If you trade Cedeno, you basically have no choice but to resign Lugo, which doesn't intrigue me at all.

 

The "other valuable chips" would probably be some low level bats that won't be helping this team for years, if at all, or some arms that would end up being lost to rule 5 anyway, or shunned for more proven relievers. As long as it's not Pie or Cedeno, I don't care who they give up for Lugo, assuming it's not 2-3 really top notch guys at once. I'd give up Cedeno in a deal for Tejada, where you are practically guaranteed solid SS production for several years, but not dime a half dozen Lugo.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd offer Tampa a package of Wellemeyer, one of Dopirak or Harvey, and one of Marshall or Marmol.

 

While that's not an overwhelming package, it could get the deal done. They could put Upton at SS, replacing Lugo. They would have a local boy (Harvey or Dopirak) who could arrive in 2007-2008 and provide some power. Welly gives them another arm for the pen and Marshall or Marmol gives them a projectible arm for the future.

 

This deal isn't overly expensive for the Cubs either.

[Cubzfan64]

Okay, so the Red Sox trade Renteria and $11 million to the Braves for Marte. Then they trade Marte to the Devil Rays for Lugo and his $5 million contract? So basically they're paying $16 million for a 1-year rental in Lugo? I don't see the Red Sox trading Marte for Lugo.

 

I didn't say it would be a smart or fiscally responsible thing to do, but we're only what 8 weeks or so from the start of spring training and Boston has NOBODY to play CF, no leadoff hitter and a utility guy pegged to start at SS - I honestly don't see them going into the season with Cora slated to be there every day. They've got TONS of pressure on them right now with what the Blue Jays and Yankees have done to improve themselves - not to mention the controversy around losing their GM. Lugo would fill 2 of their 3 holes at leadoff and SS and at least give them a fighting chance in their division.

 

If they don't make the move to get Lugo, I see them being a 3rd or 4th place team in that division - even with Lugo they have plenty more question marks than they've had the last few years.

[frostwyrm]

Alright, let's assume Hendry uses some other valuable trading chip(s) to get Lugo. That leaves Lugo, Neifi, Cedeno, and Hairston all on the roster. Given that situation, how much playing time do you think Cedeno gets?

 

Neifi was once a backup, and still could be if Hendry puts enough pressure on Dusty to start Cedeno. He's stated over and over that Cedeno is here to start. I don't know how sincere he is, but he was never that way with other young players who got the shaft. The most he offered Dubois was a chance to get some time. I could easily see Cedeno used as a utility man in that situation. But that at least gives you the option of letting Lugo go in the offseason (saving yourself from overpaying) and inserting Cedeno into the starting role then. If you trade Cedeno, you basically have no choice but to resign Lugo, which doesn't intrigue me at all.

 

The "other valuable chips" would probably be some low level bats that won't be helping this team for years, if at all, or some arms that would end up being lost to rule 5 anyway, or shunned for more proven relievers. As long as it's not Pie or Cedeno, I don't care who they give up for Lugo, assuming it's not 2-3 really top notch guys at once. I'd give up Cedeno in a deal for Tejada, where you are practically guaranteed solid SS production for several years, but not dime a half dozen Lugo.

 

I don't think we'll get Lugo for low level bats. The DRays think they can get Marte, and Furcal got $13M per year, so a veteran SS is worth quite a lot right now. To get Lugo we'll have to give up something we'll actually miss in the near future. Personally I'd just stick with Cedeno and let him start, but it's not my decision. Under the current regime, I have no faith that Cedeno will get a chance to be a major contributor in 2006. Hendry says he's high on Cedeno , but I don't believe it, and I know Dusty isn't falling all over himself to play him. If Hendry feels he absolutely positively HAS to get Lugo, then I think Cedeno should be offered.

[cubfan1955]

Stupid question I suppose but why would the Cubs be interested in the overrated Lugo when they already have two shortstops? Given the fact Walker is probably gone and Neifi is a switch hitter there is no doubt who is going to get the majority of starts at 2B with Hairston playing backup 2B and backup OF. All Lugo does is slow up Cedenos progress.

 

And trading Cedeno for Lugo is a ridiculous notion. Expect it to happen any day now. :cry:

[ThePenguin11]

I'd be fine with using Cedeno as the centerpiece of a deal to get Lugo. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Cedeno can best help the Cubs as trade bait.

 

You don't think Cedeno could match Lugo's production? If we have to trade Walker, I'd put Cedeno at 2B. That would be a pretty nifty defensive middle infield.

 

I think Cedeno could, but I'm not willing to assume he will.

 

There are many problems with trading Cedeno for Lugo though. Lugo isn't that good, and Perez is awful. Cedeno for Lugo means Neifi will more than likely start everyday. That might end up the case regardless, but at least if you keep Cedeno you have a chance of Neifi not hurting this lineup again. Lugo is a 30 year old MI with modest career stats coming off a peak season and approaching free agency. Unless he completely bombs this year, he will get a big money contract next offseason, something approaching the 4/32 range. And that would be a terrible deal for whoever signs him. He might repeated his 2005 numbers this season, and if he does it in the right market, with the right hype, he could get a 4/40 or more. And by the middle of that contract his new team will be regretting the move. He'll be a 32-33 year old middle infielder who has lost a step or two on defense, who has reverted back to his pre 2005 unimpressive offensive numbers.

 

Looking at his numbers on baseballreference.com you notice the list of similar batters. Five current SS on that list, with the already overpaid Furcal at the top. All younger. Similar through age 29, and the 2nd name of the list is Neifi. Very close is Blauser, who failed with the Cubs and was done by 33.

 

So, you trade Cedeno for him and this year's MI is Lugo/Perez. Just having Neifi in the same lineup with this poor OF is bad enough. Then you have to make the decision on whether to overpay him next year, likely regretting it within a year or two, or letting him go, in which case you traded Cedeno, and his chance to duplicate Lugo's (and so many other very similar SS in today's game) modest career, all while getting paid minimal salary for the next few seasons, and pre free agency dollars for several years after.

 

I don't see the value in the Cubs trading Cedeno for Lugo, not without follow-up moves that drastically improved this year's chances.

 

To be fair the Lugo comparison was to a 29 year-old Neifi Perez. I'm pretty sure he was an all star caliber player at that time. He was surely overrated, but much better than he is now - probably since he was playing in Colorado for the majority of his career at that point. But - Lugo's comparison would hold more water at with that in mind.

[Soul]

I don't get it. I hear Lugo's name all the time. No power, has never hit over .300, never had more than 75 RBI, 3/6 seasons he has struck out 100+ times....

 

 

I'm not saying he's bad. But all this hype, you would think he's been tearing up the league or something.

 

Is it just that the pool of available players is so bad?

[E.J.]

Okay, so the Red Sox trade Renteria and $11 million to the Braves for Marte. Then they trade Marte to the Devil Rays for Lugo and his $5 million contract? So basically they're paying $16 million for a 1-year rental in Lugo? I don't see the Red Sox trading Marte for Lugo.

 

I didn't say it would be a smart or fiscally responsible thing to do, but we're only what 8 weeks or so from the start of spring training and Boston has NOBODY to play CF, no leadoff hitter and a utility guy pegged to start at SS - I honestly don't see them going into the season with Cora slated to be there every day. They've got TONS of pressure on them right now with what the Blue Jays and Yankees have done to improve themselves - not to mention the controversy around losing their GM. Lugo would fill 2 of their 3 holes at leadoff and SS and at least give them a fighting chance in their division.

 

If they don't make the move to get Lugo, I see them being a 3rd or 4th place team in that division - even with Lugo they have plenty more question marks than they've had the last few years.

 

There's no GM in baseball who's going to basically pay $16 million for 1 year of Lugo. They have a young kid in Pedroia who could get a chance to win the spot in spring training. He was basically blocked by Ramirez, so they moved him over to 2b. Their hole at SS is not nearly as big as the hole they have in CF.