is phil rodgers nuts?

[mg420]

he would have to be after reading this:

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-051211rogers,1,7647259.column?coll=cs-cubs-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

[CuseCubFan69]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

[mg420]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

 

he wants the cubs to trade Z for tejada. i guess he hasnt heard that hendry said neither prior or z are going anywhere and that tejada denied he wanted to be traded.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

Rogers is basically saying trading Z for Tejada would be a good move.

[cubweiser03]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

 

he wants the cubs to trade Z for tejada. i guess he hasnt heard that hendry said neither prior or z are going anywhere and that tejada denied he wanted to be traded.

 

...and then go sign millwood, washburn, weaver to replace Z in the rotation. So basically taking on $20M of payroll, leaving no room for RF or SS. EDIT. Oy too early, Tejada is the SS. No room for RF.

Edited December 12, 2005 by cubweiser03

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

 

he wants the cubs to trade Z for tejada. i guess he hasnt heard that hendry said neither prior or z are going anywhere and that tejada denied he wanted to be traded.

 

...and then go sign millwood, washburn, weaver to replace Z in the rotation. So basically taking on $20M of payroll, leaving no room for RF or SS.

 

The Cubs have their version of a LH Weaver: His name is Glendon Rusch

[CuseCubFan69]

Thanks....I'd trade Z or Prior for Tejada, Mora and 2 of their top prospects, one pitcher and one postion player.

[hawkeyecub]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

 

Zambrano, Patterson and Cedeno for Tejada and Daniel Cabrera or one of the Orioles' pitching prospects. Then try to sign either Millwood, Washburn or Weaver for the rotation.

[CuseCubFan69]

Could you please give a recap of this because I'm not going to register with the Trib.

 

Zambrano, Patterson and Cedeno for Tejada and Daniel Cabrera or one of the Orioles' pitching prospects. Then try to sign either Millwood, Washburn or Weaver for the rotation.

 

My God trading Z and then signing Washburn would be like letting Maddux go and signing Juan Guzman. I've already lived that previous Hell.

[RynoRules]

I don't see this trade as being so crazy, but that's just me. I like it mainly b/c we get Cabrera back along with Tejada in Rogers' scenario, although I'd prefer the Bedard kid instead. Tejada's 05' win shares (as cited in Roger's article) is very enticing. Edited December 12, 2005 by RynoRules

[SCCubbieFAN]

What really does not make sense is that by his own words, Rogers says pitching is a precious commodity yet he suggests the Cubs should trade away one of its best pitchers and then try and sign a FA pitcher. :roll:

[Balsa]

Rogers is insane. If that happened I would freak out. Letting go of Z is the worst idea we've had since we tried to low-ball Maddux.

 

BTW, for those that can't be bothered to register with the Tribune, I suggest this site:

 

http://www.bugmenot.com

[anemic offense]

he would have to be after reading this:

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-051211rogers,1,7647259.column?coll=cs-cubs-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

 

Phil Rogers isn't on crack, he's just stupid. This moronic trade is just one of many to come from his senseless delusions. Another that comes to mind his his suggesting the Cubs trade for A Rod a few years ago. The Cubs (as usual) had other holes to fill (not to mention a finite payroll) yet he still thought they could take on a $25 million p/year contract and be a powerhouse. Unreal.

 

As I already stated, I know he's a complete moron, but what's truly perplexing is usually one can somewhat understand where another is coming from, even if the logic is wrong and flawed. However, in Rogers' case, his ideas are so unreasonable and stupid, that I can't even begin to fathom how he comes to the conclusions he does. Like in this little gem. He straightaway acknowledges the importance of pitching, yet neglects to mention Zambrano is THE ONLY one of our "ace" starters who has always been healthy. Not to mention he is still young, and not even in the peak of his career (his control can still improve). Just what the hell does he think would happen to this team if Prior and/or Wood goes down again? Without Z they would be screwed. And if he somehow thinks Millwood or Washburn would be good replacements for Z think again. Millwood is consistently one of the most overhyped and overpaid pitchers of this era and his good season last year is likely an aberration. I'm just glad this idiot is not our GM because we'd be totally screwed. Hendry does a POOR job of helping the team via FA but at least he can make some trades. Rogers can even make up good ones on paper.

 

This only scratches the surface of the rediculousness of this trade. As another mentioned, how does he think we can take on the added $10 million + payroll (assuming Z makes 6-$7 mil in arbitration and the Cubs find a comparable salary (not talent) replacement) and fulfill the rest of their needs??? He also doesn't even account for the years we'd be giving away. Zambrano has at least (barring injury) 6-7 years of excellent baseball left, while Tejada is on the wrong side of 30 (and may decline at any time). Throw in Cedeno and Patterson (though Corey needs to be traded) and the Cubs would be giving them 3 MAJOR LEAGUE ready players all 26 and under. If the trade wasn't bad enough with just Zambrano alone, it's even WORSE when you consider all these factors. Throw in the riskiness of unknown production when any player switches leagues, and you have the makings of a disaster. And this isn't even taking into account the probability of Cedeno turning into a star (he is EVERYTHING this team needs right now). IMO, he's much more important than Murton.

 

Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure what's funnier. The rediculousness of this trade, or the fact Rogers can land (and retain) a job at one of the largest papers in the US. Hell, even ESPN (which has become a joke in and of itself) PAYS Rogers to put his filth on their website. If Phil is good for ANYTHING, its giving other people hope. If this hack can get paid to be a journalist, then EVERYONE truly has the ability to be what they desire. Rogers is living proof.

[goonys evil twin]

Rogers' job is to create controversy so his employer can sell more papers, or get more on-line views. Suggesting a reasonable trade idea isn't really all that interesting to much of the public. They buy papers and start talking about that article to radio hosts when the trade idea is more shocking than likely to help the ballclub. Watching this guy on that awful Comcast show with the other writers makes me believe he doesn't really believe have the stuff he says/writes, and spends much of his energy and focus on thinking of something that will get a reaction instead of something that makes good sense.

[Balsa]

Anemic Offense: I agree with the controversy part, but this is so far-fetched and just unreal it makes me wonder how he keeps his job.

 

Seriously, I have lost all respect for Rogers.

[RynoRules]

I've made a pitch for why Rogers' idea might not be so crazy, mainly based on Tejada's Win Shares. Can someon comment on why it is crazy with some specificity?

[goonys evil twin]

Anemic Offense: I agree with the controversy part, but this is so far-fetched and just unreal it makes me wonder how he keeps his job.

 

Seriously, I have lost all respect for Rogers.

 

He keeps his job because people read this article, talk about this article, make other people think about the article and ultimately they sell more papers and get more clicks on the website. It's no more ridiculous than half the stuff he has written over the years.

[goonys evil twin]

I've made a pitch for why Rogers' idea might not be so crazy, mainly based on Tejada's Win Shares. Can someon comment on why it is crazy with some specificity?

 

The Cubs pitching is severely lacking in quality. This trade idea helps the offense, but hurts the pitching, and leaves very little room to make improvements elsewhere. Even in a trade for Tejada, the Cubs still need to get at least a decent bat for RF. Trade Z and others for Tejada, then sign a starting pitcher. The starting pitcher is going to be worse than Zambrano, probably much worse. Tejada is a really good player who I'd love to have on this team, but he's past his prime. Zambrano hasn't hit his. Tejada is very expensive, Zambrano is very cheap. Zambrano has been the only steady, healthy, effective starter on the roster the past 2 years.

 

I think, at best, this trade makes the Cubs marginally better right now, but will make them worse as soon as 2007, with much fewer resources available then to make them better. But I also think that with the instability of the pitching staff already as bad as it is, this trade could make them worse in 2006.

 

Another thing to consider is no other team that can consider a Tejada trade can offer anything close to Zambrano. San Diego isn't trading Peavy. Minnesota isn't going to give them Santana. Zambrano is in their class of pitchers. The only way a deal gets made that makes sense for the Cubs is if Baltimore truly does have to trade Tejada, and if their money grubbing owner would take back prospects for Miggy.

 

Bottom line, I'd rather have Zambrano starting at pitcher and Cedeno starting at shortstop than Miggy starting at shortstop, Rusch getting 33 starts and paying some mediocre free agent pitcher a 4/40 contract to give the Cubs a 4.00 ERA or worse. The Cubs need more offense to this team and more starting pitching. They can't get rid of their best starting pitcher to help this team now.

[da bears]

Anemic Offense: I agree with the controversy part, but this is so far-fetched and just unreal it makes me wonder how he keeps his job.

 

Seriously, I have lost all respect for Rogers.

 

I agree. I don't know if I've ever read an article of his that sounded plausible. It really is amazing that the Tribune keeps this bum around.

[RynoRules]

I've made a pitch for why Rogers' idea might not be so crazy, mainly based on Tejada's Win Shares. Can someon comment on why it is crazy with some specificity?

 

The Cubs pitching is severely lacking in quality. This trade idea helps the offense, but hurts the pitching, and leaves very little room to make improvements elsewhere. Even in a trade for Tejada, the Cubs still need to get at least a decent bat for RF. Trade Z and others for Tejada, then sign a starting pitcher. The starting pitcher is going to be worse than Zambrano, probably much worse. Tejada is a really good player who I'd love to have on this team, but he's past his prime. Zambrano hasn't hit his. Tejada is very expensive, Zambrano is very cheap. Zambrano has been the only steady, healthy, effective starter on the roster the past 2 years.

 

I think, at best, this trade makes the Cubs marginally better right now, but will make them worse as soon as 2007, with much fewer resources available then to make them better. But I also think that with the instability of the pitching staff already as bad as it is, this trade could make them worse in 2006.

 

Another thing to consider is no other team that can consider a Tejada trade can offer anything close to Zambrano. San Diego isn't trading Peavy. Minnesota isn't going to give them Santana. Zambrano is in their class of pitchers. The only way a deal gets made that makes sense for the Cubs is if Baltimore truly does have to trade Tejada, and if their money grubbing owner would take back prospects for Miggy.

 

Bottom line, I'd rather have Zambrano starting at pitcher and Cedeno starting at shortstop than Miggy starting at shortstop, Rusch getting 33 starts and paying some mediocre free agent pitcher a 4/40 contract to give the Cubs a 4.00 ERA or worse. The Cubs need more offense to this team and more starting pitching. They can't get rid of their best starting pitcher to help this team now.

 

I understand your point, but respectfully disagree re the following:

 

1) Tejada is not past his prime. He's not even 30 yet, and a player's "prime" generally begins in hhis late twenties and lasts until 33 or 34.

 

2) I do not think that we would have to give Washburn or Millwood 4 for 40, and I think Millwood could be had for 3 years and 24 mill. Not a bargain, but in light of recent events, not a bank-breaker either.

 

3) You generally have to give up value in order to receive it, and if there is one position where we actually still have prospects who could fill in, its SP: Hill, Guzman (who had a good winter and is expected to challenge Rusch for the 5th spot per Levine), and Williams. This is not to say that their production would rival Z's; it would not. But its all about wins, and having Tejada in the lineup 6.9 days a week, IMO, would lead to more wins than a starting pitcher can give us.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The Cubs pitching is severely lacking in quality. This trade idea helps the offense, but hurts the pitching, and leaves very little room to make improvements elsewhere. Even in a trade for Tejada, the Cubs still need to get at least a decent bat for RF. Trade Z and others for Tejada, then sign a starting pitcher. The starting pitcher is going to be worse than Zambrano, probably much worse. Tejada is a really good player who I'd love to have on this team, but he's past his prime. Zambrano hasn't hit his. Tejada is very expensive, Zambrano is very cheap. Zambrano has been the only steady, healthy, effective starter on the roster the past 2 years.

 

I think, at best, this trade makes the Cubs marginally better right now, but will make them worse as soon as 2007, with much fewer resources available then to make them better. But I also think that with the instability of the pitching staff already as bad as it is, this trade could make them worse in 2006.

 

Another thing to consider is no other team that can consider a Tejada trade can offer anything close to Zambrano. San Diego isn't trading Peavy. Minnesota isn't going to give them Santana. Zambrano is in their class of pitchers. The only way a deal gets made that makes sense for the Cubs is if Baltimore truly does have to trade Tejada, and if their money grubbing owner would take back prospects for Miggy.

 

Bottom line, I'd rather have Zambrano starting at pitcher and Cedeno starting at shortstop than Miggy starting at shortstop, Rusch getting 33 starts and paying some mediocre free agent pitcher a 4/40 contract to give the Cubs a 4.00 ERA or worse. The Cubs need more offense to this team and more starting pitching. They can't get rid of their best starting pitcher to help this team now.

 

I don't think trading Z for Tejada makes this team marginally better right now at all. I think it's a huge step back. The only way this team is better right now (assuming the trade) is if we sign Clemens, but then we're still back to the problem of being worse in 2007.

[mg420]

I've made a pitch for why Rogers' idea might not be so crazy, mainly based on Tejada's Win Shares. Can someon comment on why it is crazy with some specificity?

 

The Cubs pitching is severely lacking in quality. This trade idea helps the offense, but hurts the pitching, and leaves very little room to make improvements elsewhere. Even in a trade for Tejada, the Cubs still need to get at least a decent bat for RF. Trade Z and others for Tejada, then sign a starting pitcher. The starting pitcher is going to be worse than Zambrano, probably much worse. Tejada is a really good player who I'd love to have on this team, but he's past his prime. Zambrano hasn't hit his. Tejada is very expensive, Zambrano is very cheap. Zambrano has been the only steady, healthy, effective starter on the roster the past 2 years.

 

I think, at best, this trade makes the Cubs marginally better right now, but will make them worse as soon as 2007, with much fewer resources available then to make them better. But I also think that with the instability of the pitching staff already as bad as it is, this trade could make them worse in 2006.

 

Another thing to consider is no other team that can consider a Tejada trade can offer anything close to Zambrano. San Diego isn't trading Peavy. Minnesota isn't going to give them Santana. Zambrano is in their class of pitchers. The only way a deal gets made that makes sense for the Cubs is if Baltimore truly does have to trade Tejada, and if their money grubbing owner would take back prospects for Miggy.

 

Bottom line, I'd rather have Zambrano starting at pitcher and Cedeno starting at shortstop than Miggy starting at shortstop, Rusch getting 33 starts and paying some mediocre free agent pitcher a 4/40 contract to give the Cubs a 4.00 ERA or worse. The Cubs need more offense to this team and more starting pitching. They can't get rid of their best starting pitcher to help this team now.

 

I understand your point, but respectfully disagree re the following:

 

1) Tejada is not past his prime. He's not even 30 yet, and a player's "prime" generally begins in hhis late twenties and lasts until 33 or 34.

 

2) I do not think that we would have to give Washburn or Millwood 4 for 40, and I think Millwood could be had for 3 years and 24 mill. Not a bargain, but in light of recent events, not a bank-breaker either.

 

3) You generally have to give up value in order to receive it, and if there is one position where we actually still have prospects who could fill in, its SP: Hill, Guzman (who had a good winter and is expected to challenge Rusch for the 5th spot per Levine), and Williams. This is not to say that their production would rival Z's; it would not. But its all about wins, and having Tejada in the lineup 6.9 days a week, IMO, would lead to more wins than a starting pitcher can give us.

 

if this is true the cubs are insane. guzman cant even stay healthy through a season of minor leauge ball and they expect him to be able to start in the majors? at least see how healthy he is the 1st half of the year before bringing him up.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

if this is true the cubs are insane. guzman cant even stay healthy through a season of minor leauge ball and they expect him to be able to start in the majors? at least see how healthy he is the 1st half of the year before bringing him up.

 

I realize this is a big IF, but if Guzman is healthy, I want him starting over Rusch. His stuff is amazing. I have no issues with letting him develop in the bigs. The upside is HUGE.

[YearofDaCubs]

First of all SS right now is not necessarily a need. We have Cedeno who at the very least can play good defense there. If anything, it is best to look for a RF which is our biggest hole right now. Giving up Z or Prior for Tejada would be asinine.

[mg420]

if this is true the cubs are insane. guzman cant even stay healthy through a season of minor leauge ball and they expect him to be able to start in the majors? at least see how healthy he is the 1st half of the year before bringing him up.

 

I realize this is a big IF, but if Guzman is healthy, I want him starting over Rusch. His stuff is amazing. I have no issues with letting him develop in the bigs. The upside is HUGE.

 

so is the risk to his health. what is the most innings he has pitched in a season in the minors? if he is healthy he has got to build up his endurance in the minors imo or he will just end up getting hurt again.