Cubs offer to FLA for Pierre is....

[nilodnayr]

The Marlins were thought to be trying to find a better proposal for Pierre than what the Cubs were offering, rumored to be pitcher Sergio Mitre and Double-A pitchers Ricky Nolasco and Reynel Pinto.

 

From Tribune.

Wow, I want to see something done but we shouldn't need three highly rated prospects for a one-year rental from a team selling their team for spare parts.

 

Mitre is not a highly rated prospect by any means and will most likely be waived should we not find a trading partner for him before the season, so its not like he has a ton of value, even though I think hes a decent pitcher.

[Outshined_One]

I wouldn't call those three highly-rated prospects...but I am of the mindset that the Cubs could do much better in trading those three prospects.

[nilodnayr]

 

We all know baseball people aren't the smartest, or have we forgotten that Dusty Baker is considered an elite manager? Why fault a guy because hes been crapped on?

 

I'm genuinely curious about this: how many players have been part time players at age 30 and got a starting gig and were difference makers?

 

I really have no idea the answer to this question. I'm not totally opposed to Michaels, I'm just trying to think outside the box on why he hasn't gotten an opportunity. If he puts up a great season, which is very possible given his past, then all the better for him (and if he's here, for us).

 

I'm interested to see the final cost of Michaels, also.

 

How many part time players put up 822 OPS in their first 4 years in the MLB?

[Blueheart05]

Is it worth giving up three prospects for a one-year rental?

 

This year it is the price. Furcal is making 13MM/ year, fragile Burnett got a 5 year deal, and 29 other teams know the Cubs are desperate for a leadoff man. This is the priceI hope this can seal the deal so we can get our RF.

 

OT---I think Hendry may still try to get Lugo and bat him first or second.

[fallingpieces]

What if we were to hold onto Patterson, and put him in right? We'd have pierre lead off, and let Patterson hit in the 2 hole. I don't know about everyone else, but I think that would be a great plan. At that point we can have a very speedy 1-2, and Patterson can drive in Pierre. I think if Patterson isn't leading off, and management lets him do his thing, and not try to push a certain mindstate on him this would be a great set-up.

 

Corey has sucked big time in his 360 career ABs in the 2 hole (like I mean low 600 OPS sucking). Management "letting him do his thing" means swinging for the fences at pitches from his toes to his eyes. So in summation, no, I do not want him getting the second largest number of ABs on the team, leaving the bases empty infront of Lee/ARAM (and not by knocking in runs, by striking out).

 

I mean by doing his thing, let him play like he did in 03. Let him play like he did in Aug of 04, when he was getting settled in. A lot of his problems have been the way this orginization has mishandled him. I get just as frustrated as the next guy when he swings at pitches in his eyes. The reason why is because I know he can do better. I would be willing to bet that he's working right now to prove he is the player everyone says he is. I also think if the rumor I've heard about him working out with Barrett is true, he will turn it around. No more of this molding him to be something else let him become the player he is.

[WrigleyField 22]

I can't really say anything that hasn't already said except that simply it makes us better.

Yea Pierre has flaws, weak D, caught stealing, weak power. Does Bradley not have flaws as well? Potential headcase, injury prone. The injury prone one really sticks out to me, because I thought the general consensus around here after all the injuries we've had to pitchers and Nomar.

 

Hey I like Bradley, but Pierre can do a good job too. It is important that Hendry makes the right follow up moves, but if he secures even a player like Wilkerson for RF and ensures that someone better than Niefi is at 2B(with Cedeno at short) then our situation looks pretty good. Under that senario maybe we could make a deal for a solid 5th starter.

 

Oh and like someone else said, and it is really annoying, I hate when people can pick and choose whether or not to consider the past years performance. With Howry and Eyre all that mattered was their past failures. With Pierre it is all about his failure for just the past year. Choose one or the other. For me, I'm choosing the career unless it is someone young and on the rise or old and on the decline.

[nilodnayr]

What if we were to hold onto Patterson, and put him in right? We'd have pierre lead off, and let Patterson hit in the 2 hole. I don't know about everyone else, but I think that would be a great plan. At that point we can have a very speedy 1-2, and Patterson can drive in Pierre. I think if Patterson isn't leading off, and management lets him do his thing, and not try to push a certain mindstate on him this would be a great set-up.

 

Corey has sucked big time in his 360 career ABs in the 2 hole (like I mean low 600 OPS sucking). Management "letting him do his thing" means swinging for the fences at pitches from his toes to his eyes. So in summation, no, I do not want him getting the second largest number of ABs on the team, leaving the bases empty infront of Lee/ARAM (and not by knocking in runs, by striking out).

 

I mean by doing his thing, let him play like he did in 03. Let him play like he did in Aug of 04, when he was getting settled in. A lot of his problems have been the way this orginization has mishandled him. I get just as frustrated as the next guy when he swings at pitches in his eyes. The reason why is because I know he can do better. I would be willing to bet that he's working right now to prove he is the player everyone says he is. I also think if the rumor I've heard about him working out with Barrett is true, he will turn it around. No more of this molding him to be something else let him become the player he is.

 

I too think he was completely mishandled in the minors, but am not as optimistic that he can just turn it around. The cubs have tried to have him use his skills for quite a while, so my response would be that I have no reason to believe he will turn it around at this point in his career (especially for the money he will be making). He has shown flashes of brilliance, but he is just way too inconsistant. Even his "breakout" 2003 (1/2) season, he only had one good month. To bank on a guy who has had 4 good months (april 2002, may 2003, june and august 2004) in over three and a half years in the big leagues to bat second in a playoff hopeful lineup is a leap of faith to say the least.

[fallingpieces]

What if we were to hold onto Patterson, and put him in right? We'd have pierre lead off, and let Patterson hit in the 2 hole. I don't know about everyone else, but I think that would be a great plan. At that point we can have a very speedy 1-2, and Patterson can drive in Pierre. I think if Patterson isn't leading off, and management lets him do his thing, and not try to push a certain mindstate on him this would be a great set-up.

 

Corey has sucked big time in his 360 career ABs in the 2 hole (like I mean low 600 OPS sucking). Management "letting him do his thing" means swinging for the fences at pitches from his toes to his eyes. So in summation, no, I do not want him getting the second largest number of ABs on the team, leaving the bases empty infront of Lee/ARAM (and not by knocking in runs, by striking out).

 

I mean by doing his thing, let him play like he did in 03. Let him play like he did in Aug of 04, when he was getting settled in. A lot of his problems have been the way this orginization has mishandled him. I get just as frustrated as the next guy when he swings at pitches in his eyes. The reason why is because I know he can do better. I would be willing to bet that he's working right now to prove he is the player everyone says he is. I also think if the rumor I've heard about him working out with Barrett is true, he will turn it around. No more of this molding him to be something else let him become the player he is.

 

I too think he was completely mishandled in the minors, but am not as optimistic that he can just turn it around. The cubs have tried to have him use his skills for quite a while, so my response would be that I have no reason to believe he will turn it around at this point in his career (especially for the money he will be making). He has shown flashes of brilliance, but he is just way too inconsistant. Even his "breakout" 2003 (1/2) season, he only had one good month. To bank on a guy who has had 4 good months (april 2002, may 2003, june and august 2004) in over three and a half years in the big leagues to bat second in a playoff hopeful lineup is a leap of faith to say the least.

 

What can I say. This is one of the only aspects where I'm hopeful, and Bud Light keeps telling me I'm right. I think I'm going to crash, but keep me informed.

[nilodnayr]

I can't really say anything that hasn't already said except that simply it makes us better.

Yea Pierre has flaws, weak D, caught stealing, weak power. Does Bradley not have flaws as well? Potential headcase, injury prone. The injury prone one really sticks out to me, because I thought the general consensus around here after all the injuries we've had to pitchers and Nomar.

 

Hey I like Bradley, but Pierre can do a good job too. It is important that Hendry makes the right follow up moves, but if he secures even a player like Wilkerson for RF and ensures that someone better than Niefi is at 2B(with Cedeno at short) then our situation looks pretty good. Under that senario maybe we could make a deal for a solid 5th starter.

 

Oh and like someone else said, and it is really annoying, I hate when people can pick and choose whether or not to consider the past years performance. With Howry and Eyre all that mattered was their past failures. With Pierre it is all about his failure for just the past year. Choose one or the other. For me, I'm choosing the career unless it is someone young and on the rise or old and on the decline.

 

take career numbers into consideration. Such as even neglecting to take pierres 2005 into consideration he is an inferior option to others. Heck, lets even ignore his non-coors ops in 2002. Lets also look and Bradleys numbers on the road.

 

2002: 260/321/443

2003: 346/443/548

2004: 282/376/447

2005: 309/367/494

 

Pierre can't even come close to sniffing those OBP, let alone those power numbers.

[badger1679666666]

The Marlins were thought to be trying to find a better proposal for Pierre than what the Cubs were offering, rumored to be pitcher Sergio Mitre and Double-A pitchers Ricky Nolasco and Reynel Pinto.

 

From Tribune.

Wow, I want to see something done but we shouldn't need three highly rated prospects for a one-year rental from a team selling their team for spare parts.

 

Again, Cub fan myopia. "Highly-rated prospects?" Here's Rotoworld's take (boldface is mine)--

 

The Chicago Tribune believes the Cubs are offering pitchers Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto to the Marlins for Juan Pierre.

Not bad, though the Marlins could try to do better. If acquired, Mitre would go right into Florida's rotation. The other two should probably begin the year in Triple-A. Dec. 7 - 12:53 am et

 

Yep, Cub fans wearing Harry's glasses might be a more accurate phrase.

 

Like Choi, and Cruz, and Hill and countless other crappy prospects traded away when Cubs fans thought they were sooo good.

 

Just make the trade and get someone who will be guaranteed to be our leadoff guy and then gocus on SS/RF.

 

None of the pitchers mentioned have a higher ceiling than #3 and that's only one of them perhaps. They aren't as good as we think they are.

 

If I'm wrong, I'll eat a lot of crow.

Edited December 7, 2005 by badger

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I wouldn't call those three highly-rated prospects...but I am of the mindset that the Cubs could do much better in trading those three prospects.

 

Exactly. This is overpaying. Ugh.

[Andy]

The Marlins were thought to be trying to find a better proposal for Pierre than what the Cubs were offering, rumored to be pitcher Sergio Mitre and Double-A pitchers Ricky Nolasco and Reynel Pinto.

 

From Tribune.

Wow, I want to see something done but we shouldn't need three highly rated prospects for a one-year rental from a team selling their team for spare parts.

 

Again, Cub fan myopia. "Highly-rated prospects?" Here's Rotoworld's take (boldface is mine)--

 

The Chicago Tribune believes the Cubs are offering pitchers Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto to the Marlins for Juan Pierre.

Not bad, though the Marlins could try to do better. If acquired, Mitre would go right into Florida's rotation. The other two should probably begin the year in Triple-A. Dec. 7 - 12:53 am et

 

Yep, Cub fans wearing Harry's glasses might be a more accurate phrase.

 

Like Choi, and Cruz, and Hill and countless other crappy prospects traded away when Cubs fans thought they were sooo good.

 

Just make the trade and get someone who will be guaranteed to be our leadoff guy and then gocus on SS/RF.

 

None of the pitchers mentioned have a higher ceiling than #3 and that's only one of them perhaps. They aren't as good as we think they are.

 

If I'm wrong, I'll eat a lot of crow.

As I recall, Choi got us DLee, Hill helped us get Ramirez, and before the 2003 season I remember reading (in SI, not just a Chicago-based publication) we could have traded Cruz straight up for Shea Hillenbrand if we'd wanted to. That to me sounds pretty good.

[WrigleyField 22]

I can't really say anything that hasn't already said except that simply it makes us better.

Yea Pierre has flaws, weak D, caught stealing, weak power. Does Bradley not have flaws as well? Potential headcase, injury prone. The injury prone one really sticks out to me, because I thought the general consensus around here after all the injuries we've had to pitchers and Nomar.

 

Hey I like Bradley, but Pierre can do a good job too. It is important that Hendry makes the right follow up moves, but if he secures even a player like Wilkerson for RF and ensures that someone better than Niefi is at 2B(with Cedeno at short) then our situation looks pretty good. Under that senario maybe we could make a deal for a solid 5th starter.

 

Oh and like someone else said, and it is really annoying, I hate when people can pick and choose whether or not to consider the past years performance. With Howry and Eyre all that mattered was their past failures. With Pierre it is all about his failure for just the past year. Choose one or the other. For me, I'm choosing the career unless it is someone young and on the rise or old and on the decline.

 

take career numbers into consideration. Such as even neglecting to take pierres 2005 into consideration he is an inferior option to others. Heck, lets even ignore his non-coors ops in 2002. Lets also look and Bradleys numbers on the road.

 

2002: 260/321/443

2003: 346/443/548

2004: 282/376/447

2005: 309/367/494

 

Pierre can't even come close to sniffing those OBP, let alone those power numbers.

 

Actually he has accomplished those OBP from 2004/05 before. Yea Bradley kills him on power. Hard to argue with the 2003 except by saying he has not seen anything close to that OBP production any other time in his career.

I do have to say that before I was higher on Bradley, but after seeing how much he has not playd it drops his stock quite a bit.

 

I like both players. Depending on who we got may change the route we go with other spots, but either one can fit well here.

[Guest]

 

It's a shame we have to think like this, but Jim has to pick up someone fast, or it's going to be Preston Wilson. I bet Wrigley's grass helps Juan out alot (assuming this deal goes through).

 

i've heard other people say that, and i don't understand why. won't the slow grass keep his slap hits from getting through?

 

I would have to say that the amount of increased friction to his "slap hits" would be completely outweighed by the benefit to his "bunt hits".

That's not necissarily true. In 2005, batters hit .260 in Wrigley in non-sacrifice bunt attempts. League-wide the average was .352, nearly 100 points higher. So for that one season, at least, Wrigley was most unkind to anyone trying to lay down a bunt for a hit. (That's not exactly conclusive, though; small sample size aside, it could just be that the 2005 Cubs were terrible bunters.)

[nilodnayr]

I can't really say anything that hasn't already said except that simply it makes us better.

Yea Pierre has flaws, weak D, caught stealing, weak power. Does Bradley not have flaws as well? Potential headcase, injury prone. The injury prone one really sticks out to me, because I thought the general consensus around here after all the injuries we've had to pitchers and Nomar.

 

Hey I like Bradley, but Pierre can do a good job too. It is important that Hendry makes the right follow up moves, but if he secures even a player like Wilkerson for RF and ensures that someone better than Niefi is at 2B(with Cedeno at short) then our situation looks pretty good. Under that senario maybe we could make a deal for a solid 5th starter.

 

Oh and like someone else said, and it is really annoying, I hate when people can pick and choose whether or not to consider the past years performance. With Howry and Eyre all that mattered was their past failures. With Pierre it is all about his failure for just the past year. Choose one or the other. For me, I'm choosing the career unless it is someone young and on the rise or old and on the decline.

 

take career numbers into consideration. Such as even neglecting to take pierres 2005 into consideration he is an inferior option to others. Heck, lets even ignore his non-coors ops in 2002. Lets also look and Bradleys numbers on the road.

 

2002: 260/321/443

2003: 346/443/548

2004: 282/376/447

2005: 309/367/494

 

Pierre can't even come close to sniffing those OBP, let alone those power numbers.

 

Actually he has accomplished those OBP from 2004/05 before. Yea Bradley kills him on power. Hard to argue with the 2003 except by saying he has not seen anything close to that OBP production any other time in his career.

I do have to say that before I was higher on Bradley, but after seeing how much he has not playd it drops his stock quite a bit.

 

I like both players. Depending on who we got may change the route we go with other spots, but either one can fit well here.

 

I believe that pro player benefits pierre's slap hitting style, look at his home/road OBP splits

 

2003: 377/346

2004: 388/361

2005: 342/311

 

So even ignoring the supreme power advantage Bradley has, looking at road splits in 2003 Bradley had a 097 OBP advantage, in 2004 he had a 015 OBP advantage, in 2005 he had a 056 OBP advantage. I'm not as concerned with the injuries, Bradley plays hard and jacked up his knee, but all reports are that his surgery went well and he will be ready before spring training.

[A New Era]

Aramisfan needs to make a photoshop of Pierre in a Cubs uniform it looks like. . .

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051206&content_id=1277743&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

A CUB by Dec-7th!!

 

Sorry if this was posted before. But it seems like it will be finalized Wednesday (that's today since I'm up late)

 

EDIT: Guess this is not old, it was just posted a half hour ago in the middle of the night! :D

[Brian]

best news of the article

 

"Carlos Zambrano and Mark Prior are not going to be traded by the Chicago Cubs," Hendry said

 

I know it's obvious, but it's good to read :D

[Andy]

Aramisfan needs to make a photoshop of Pierre in a Cubs uniform it looks like. . .

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051206&content_id=1277743&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

 

A CUB by Dec-7th!!

 

Sorry if this was posted before. But it seems like it will be finalized Wednesday (that's today since I'm up late)

 

EDIT: Guess this is not old, it was just posted a half hour ago in the middle of the night! :D

No it is not old, and that is REALLY GOOD news...the best part is this blurb:

 

The Cubs, who lost in the bidding for free agent Rafael Furcal, were very close to an agreement with the Florida Marlins late Tuesday on a trade that would net Chicago center fielder Juan Pierre and a pitching prospect in exchange for Double-A pitching prospects Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto, sources said.

Not only would we not have to give up more than two prospects, but Hendry looks to squeeze a pitching prospect out of Florida. I'm not a huge Pierre fan, but I really like this deal if it happens as printed.

[Brian]

maybe the pitching prospect is Petit :P

 

the Marlins have Pierre likely going to the Cubs on their website as well.

[Andy]

The Cubs are offering two Double-A pitching studs -- Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto -- for Pierre and a Marlins Double-A pitching prospect.

From the Marlins site. I thought that was pretty funny. :D

[Chris]

The Cubs are offering two Double-A pitching studs -- Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto -- for Pierre and a Marlins Double-A pitching prospect.

From the Marlins site. I thought that was pretty funny. :D

 

Were they not?

[Brian]

I think the funny part is that a professional web site would refer to baseball players as "studs".

[MPrior]

To me this all depends on the quality of the prospect. Obviously there's no way we'd get someone truly good out of it (unless we could pull a Willis on 'em - heh heh), but I'd like him to be more than AA roster filler; maybe someone with an outside chance to make the bigs, or at least have some - albeit miniscule - trade value at a later point.

[Brian]

Maybe since every other team backed out on Florida Jim was able to get another Murton... not likely but there is a chance.

[ZMovieman]

Did anyone else see that, if Pierre leaves, the Marlins expected 2006 payroll next season is supposed to be $18-20 million? :shock: