soccer10k

I think that's a correct gut even though I hope you are wrong. I mean I hope they both come back healthy, but with Prior slated to return first he will get more playing time.

I'm just happy to see the Z pitch that we expected to pitch this year.

6 IP, 93 pitches, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 6 K, 2 BB and he gets the victory and finishes off a sweep of the Nationals.

The syringe getting thrown at Bonds was hilarious. The difference is that the syringe was plastic and wouldn't have hurt Barry. Throwning a ball at a player's head could seriously hurt the player. I'm not saying that throwing anything, whether hard or soft, at a player is right, but there is a difference. I do agree that there is no excuse for throwing anything at a player.

And the fact that the Knicks keep giving away their draft picks.

Don't even try to bring money into it. It's not Jacque's fault that Hendry offered him $16 mil over 3 years. Did he deserve that much? Absolutely not. But you can't possibly tell me that if you were offered more money then you deserved that you wouldn't take it. For the last time: THE CONTRACT ISN'T JACQUE'S FAULT!! BLAME HENDRY FOR IT. Stop using his contract as an excuse. Everybody and their mother knows Jacque is overpaid. That horse has already been eaten away by maggots so there's nothing left to beat.

Glendon Rusch Jerome Williams Angel Guzman Rich Hill Carlos Zambrano (only the beginning of the year)

i think we're looking at the same jacque jones, but we certainly differ as to what constitutes awful. a .301 OBP, for example, is awful. i don't care where it ranks among the rest of this sorry team, it's bad. if you want to compare his #'s to others and rank them, how about ranking his OPS among other rf'ers w/ 80+ abs...he'd be 21st. or his OBP...he'd be 24th. so if you're going to say he's average, at least compare him to the rest of the league instead of his terrible teammates. i do agree w/ you that aramis and pierre have been awful. I guess I just want to hear people rip the other players just as much as Jones. It seems like some people don't like Jones as much as other players and they place more blame on him because of it, which isn't fair to Jacque.

And I think we can all agree that this is completely classless.

all that proves is that everyone else has been equally or more awful. When relating his current numbers to his own career stats, you have to realize his career--especially the last two years--has been pretty mediocre/bad. So the fact he's improved relative to his own suckiness doesn't mean he isn't bad. That said, I agree that Jones--relative to what we'd hoped he might contribute--hasn't been our biggest problem, and it probably isn't fair that he's received so much of the fans' anger. I agree completely with mediocre. Bad? Maybe. But like you said also, the fans would be stupid to expect a 300 BA from Jones. He's given the team exactly what they should have expected out of him and I don't think he can be consided awful because of that. So would you say that Aramis has been awful? Cedeno? Murton? Walker? Cedeno's BA is slightly higher than Jones but his slugging is far below. Murton's BA is slightly higher and a much higher OBP but his SLG is well below. Same goes for Walker. But nobody ever says that these guys have been awful. My point, which you understood, is that other people have been just as bad and worse than Jones.

If I were to guess, I'd say that he'll have one more start (whether in Mesa or in rehab) than Wood did. And his rehab assignment would likely start on Memorial Day or later. That's why I was confused when somebody mentioned in the game thread that he could be back by Memorial Day. I figured the beginning of June at the earliest. If he was going to return by Memorial Day he would have to have made a minor league rehab start already.

And I'm trying to say that more people than just Jones should be blamed. I agree that Jones isn't free from blame, but it seems like he is used as a scapegoat more than anybody else. At first it was his hitting. But then he started to hit and people moved on to something else. The guy had something thrown at him today. Is that really justified? No. A lot of people look at his contract (which isn't his fault) and don't give him a chance to play. I don't mind placing some blame on Jacque but blame other people also. I brought this up in another thread, but Aramis deserves more blame than Jones does right now as does Pierre. The pitching staff hasn't exactly been up to par either. yeah, because tons of people in this thread have been saying that throwing stuff at jones is justified. come on. and who hasn't given him a chance to play? nobody here is stopping him. what does that even mean? jones deserves the blame he's gotten b/c he's been awful. he's sucked offensively, defensively, and on the bases. just b/c everyone else has sucked too doesn't mean jones gets a free pass. By just give him a chance to play I mean that people have been booing him from the start. Even before he stepped foot on the field he was being criticized because of his contract. Look back at the first week of the season, and he was getting ripped because of his slow start. Jones has been awful? I beg to differ. Where on earth do you get that from? Is there another Jacque Jones that I don't know about? Right now Jones is on pace for 29 HR (a career high) and 83 RBI's (almost a career high - 85). He's currently hitting 264/301/472/773 which are currently 5th/5th/2nd/2nd on the team for players with over 90 AB's. His BA and SLG are up from the previous two years but his OBP is down slightly. Where do you get awful from? Aramis has been awful. Pierre has been awful. Jones has been average. I'm not saying that he should be free from blame and shouldn't be given a free pass so I don't know where you got that one from.

And I'm trying to say that more people than just Jones should be blamed. I agree that Jones isn't free from blame, but it seems like he is used as a scapegoat more than anybody else. At first it was his hitting. But then he started to hit and people moved on to something else. The guy had something thrown at him today. Is that really justified? No. A lot of people look at his contract (which isn't his fault) and don't give him a chance to play. I don't mind placing some blame on Jacque but blame other people also. I brought this up in another thread, but Aramis deserves more blame than Jones does right now as does Pierre. The pitching staff hasn't exactly been up to par either.

A problem with what? with a professional baseball player getting doubled off second three times in two weeks - that's what this thread is about, isn't it? Did you read the whole thread? Apparently not. Let's see what I've said about his baserunning. Not once have I said that Jacque's baserunning is okay and if you would the whole thread you would know this. I'm just saying that Jacque is not our biggest problem right now and I'm sick of everybody bashing him relentlessly. It's just stupid. The guy has been one of our better hitters this year and all some people can do on this board is bash him. That's what I'm talking about. Do I need to put it in bold for you to understand? If so, here you go. I AM NOT EXCUSING JACQUE JONES AND HIS HORRIBLE BASERUNNING AND HE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS. Happy now? Do you get it?

It's about time.

A problem with what?

To add to this, when do we stop giving Aramis the benefit of the doubt? Why aren't people booing him yet? Jones gets booed all the time and tonight had something thrown at him by a fan. I went along with the "benefit of the doubt" argument as well as the "small sample size" argument and let it go. But where do you draw the line? Aramis has 130 AB's which is almost a quarter of a season. When do you start asking if something is wrong with him?

Again, I understand that it's happened three times. I've read the whole thread and have heard that point numerous times already. There is no need to keep bringing it up to make your point. Eventually you have to say something else. I'm not trying to excuse Jones's errors and his baserunning COULD end up costing us a game. But nobody knows for sure. The problems with this team go far deeper than Jacque Jones and he is the least of our worries right now.

I've already addressed his baserunning. As for costing them a game, can you see the future? Do you know for sure if he will cost the Cubs a game? No you don't. I wouldn't be surprised if he does, but until he actually does, you can't say he will.

What game? Barrett won the game we swept, not jones so far jones has done more bad than good Jones did hit the three run homer though. And like somebody else said, Jones has been one of our better hitters recently. I'm not trying to excuse him for his baserunning though. yes he did and did hit another against the marlins but his noodle arm and lack of a brain have cost us Jacque Jones is not the reason the Cubs have lost 14 out of 17 games. hes part of the reason, there isint only one person to blame I know that he's not free from blame, but honestly, how many of those 14 losses did Jacque cost us? i never said it cost us wins, at the time, like tonight, and 2 weeks ago tonight, it potentially cost us runs with men at 3rd So Jacque has made mistakes, who hasn't? Jacque is not the one we need to blame the most. Aramis and Pierre still aren't hitting and the starting pitching with the exception of Z, hasn't showed up at all. There are other players that need to shoulder more blame than Jones.

What game? Barrett won the game we swept, not jones so far jones has done more bad than good Jones did hit the three run homer though. And like somebody else said, Jones has been one of our better hitters recently. I'm not trying to excuse him for his baserunning though. yes he did and did hit another against the marlins but his noodle arm and lack of a brain have cost us Jacque Jones is not the reason the Cubs have lost 14 out of 17 games. hes part of the reason, there isint only one person to blame I know that he's not free from blame, but honestly, how many of those 14 losses did Jacque cost us?

What game? Barrett won the game we swept, not jones so far jones has done more bad than good Jones did hit the three run homer though. And like somebody else said, Jones has been one of our better hitters recently. I'm not trying to excuse him for his baserunning though. yes he did and did hit another against the marlins but his noodle arm and lack of a brain have cost us Jacque Jones is not the reason the Cubs have lost 14 out of 17 games.

What game? Barrett won the game we swept, not jones so far jones has done more bad than good Jones did hit the three run homer though. And like somebody else said, Jones has been one of our better hitters recently. I'm not trying to excuse him for his baserunning though.

I'm not sure if this was sarcasm or truth, but Springer does deserve to be suspended. Does the fact Russ SPringer's heater isn't capable of hurting anyone mitigate the crime any? I doubt it.

Brilliant insight by Harold Reynolds: "At first I didn't think [springer] was throwing at Bonds but after hearing about the history between the two, he definately was." As if the first pitch behind Bonds and the next three which were all inside didn't give it away.