soccer10k

While I agree with your thought process, I find it hard to lump Maddux (a hall of fame 300+ winning pitcher) in with the rest of those scrubs. Pierre has been playing really well as of late and Maddux numbers aren't bad for a projected 5th starter. pierre was absolutely worthless the first three months or whatever of the season. it's so nice of him to turn it on now that the cubs are 25 games under .500 so he can salvage a nice contract out of the whole ordeal. maddux is not being paid like a 5th starter, and his performance over the past three months has fallen below what you'd want out of a fifth starter. no matter how you slice it, those two have hurt the cubs this year much more than rich hill has. yet baker is acting as though he's at the end of his rope w/ hill. Even if Pierre played well I highly doubt it would have had much of an effect on the Cubs record this year. Maddux has the 29th best ERA in the NL this year which would put him in at a low #2/ high #3 and the 16th best WHIP in the NL. I would hardly consider that to be numbers "below what you'd want out of a fifth starter."

Marshall has shown the ability to get people out at the ML level and has made numerous quality starts this year. Obviously not every young pitcher is going to pitch like Jered Weaver or Liriano, but I want to see some progress which is what Marshall has shown at points this year. Has he had his setbacks? Of course. Most young pitchers do. But Hill hasn't shown any progress. Again, how could you possibly percieve "progress" or "regression" in only FOUR CONSECUTIVE STARTS!? Why couldn't you? If you are making the same mistakes for 4 straight startsl then you aren't exactly making progress right? "sample size". Heard of it? Give him more than "you there! Succeed at the major league level in 4 starts or you're GONE!!". . "BTW be more like Marshall, he's good" (when he's not THAT good). . Hill has dominated AAA. He is ready to be a major leaguer. Now is the time to let him get over his lumps. It would be incredibly stupid if the Cubs only gave him 1 or 2 starts before they start pressuring him to do better. In a better organization, Rich Hill might be pictching with a 3.00 ERA by now. I have no doubt. If Hill has a 9.00 ERA after 10 starts, I might start to lean your way. But not after 4. BTW if this (your position on Hill) is what Hill has to deal with in Dusty and Rothy then I can understand why he has mental problems pitching on the Cubs. What about after 8 starts - which is how many he has at the ML level?

This doesn't really bother me at all. Lee hasn't looked completely healthy since he came back and I was tired of having him sit on the bench seemingly every other day. I wouldn't mind seeing Lee shut it down for the rest of the year to ensure he is healthy next year.

Not only did Dempster not blow the save, he got the Mets out 1-2-3.

JACQUE!!

I did. Don't make things personal. I'll try my best to not make things personal seeing as I don't like when people make personal attacks at me. But in this case though, I feel that I just blatently said what everybody else was thinking and, in many cases, what some people implied with their responses to his posts. I don't really see much of a difference in the two ways of going about dealing with the issue at hand. I'm not going to debate your reason for doing so. I wish I'd stepped in sooner in this thread in hindsight, but I'm doing so now. It's done. Do not make things personal again. Please. As long as everybody is treated equally, which I believe everybody is, I could care less. I won't make things personal again.

I did. Don't make things personal. I'll try my best to not make things personal seeing as I don't like when people make personal attacks at me. But in this case though, I feel that I just blatently said what everybody else was thinking and, in many cases, what some people implied with their responses to his posts. I don't really see much of a difference in the two ways of going about dealing with the issue at hand.

It's unlikely that I will be watching this game.

It's omnipresence? Wouldn't it be easier to ignore than to goad then? I think people are trying to show how wildly irrational it is rather than egging him on. That's not the way I read it. Not only does he make so many comments that are off base and blatently wrong, but he doesn't even back up his statements with any sort of a valid argument whatsoever. He also seems to bring up the White Sox in every single post he makes. And I'm not talking about this thread since it's obviously going to be AL Central centered but most other threads. It is very tiresome. Ignore him, then. Those song lyrics you posted certainly don't help. You didn't have to delete them. The song explains perfectly the type of person he is.

You and Pedro are drinking from the same Kool Aid, and its apparently spiked with Angel Dust. I thought it was clear I was being facetious. If I can't tell if you're joking, I just assume you are.

A) Because the Cubs have to make a decision on Hill soon, due to his age. 3 or 4 starts isn't enough time to make that decision. B) Those other guys have time. C) Those other guys have injury issues that don't need to be rushed. D) There's nothing to say other people can't start along with Hill. Marmol and Marshall are hurt. Zambrano has pitched too much. Maddux should be gone. Prior is day-to-day. Hill can pitch every 5 days and you could still find space for other guys. Zambrano and Maddux are still there. Z isn't going to be shut down. I'm all for trading Maddux as well. The Cubs are also giving Prior a shot to show what he can do. There are three spots in the rotation and frankly, I don't care which guy makes those starts as long as his name isn't Glendon Rusch. Since there will be two spots open, something I forgot about until you mentioned Marmol so thank you for reminding me of that, let Hill start for a while. I would personally rather have Guzman starting over Hill, and was under the impression there was only one spot open, but I would like both starting over Gopher Ball.

Marshall has shown the ability to get people out at the ML level and has made numerous quality starts this year. Obviously not every young pitcher is going to pitch like Jered Weaver or Liriano, but I want to see some progress which is what Marshall has shown at points this year. Has he had his setbacks? Of course. Most young pitchers do. But Hill hasn't shown any progress.

How does that make any sense whatsoever? Since when is 4 starts a reasonable opportunity? Marshall showed progress at one point, but he's shown regression at others. That's perfectly normal. It doesn't really what he gave up in his first 4, middle 4 or last 4 starts. What matters is that he got a lot more than 4 starts, and that they were consecutive. Hill needs to start every 5 days from here on out no matter what the results are. It doesn't matter if the Cubs win or lose, so there is nothing to lose if he gets shelled repeatedly. They need to get a good judgement on the guy, and 4 starts is not enough. If Hill gets 3 or 4 starts this time up with the team and gets shelled each time, why continue to send him out every 5 days? Why not give somebody else a chance maybe Guzman or Ryu? I'm all for giving guys a chance but Hill hasn't shown the ability to get anybody out; and not just this year, but last year as well. At least Guzman has shown the ability to get people out at some point in his short ML career. And Ryu only got one start so we don't know what he can do either. Fact is, Hill has gotten shelled and he shouldn't continue to get chance after chance if he continues to get hit hard.

Wait a sec. now? The job was his to win in ST and both Guzman and Marshall out pitched him. So lets not here the Cubs don't give Rich Hill many chances. It's not how many chances you are given. It's how you take advantage of those chances when you are given them.. So that's why I haven't won the lottery. Hill hasn't been given a chance. The worst thing is, I believe he still won't be given a chance. He'll get 3 maybe 4 starts and that's if he is good in his first one. Then when Marshall comes back he'll be moved to the bullpen or sent back to AAA. He's been given a decent chance and hasn't shown the ability to pitch at the ML level. Marshall has definately outpitched Hill this year and has earned his spot in the rotation. In Hill's four starts this year he has given up 5, 5, 3, 7 ER respectively. In Marshall's first four starts this year he gave up 4, 4, 2, 0 ER respectively. Marshall showed progress. Hill didn't. He shouldn't get more than 3 or 4 starts to show he can pitch at the ML level. If he has four outings like he did earlier in the year, he shouldn't be given many more. Now, on the other hand, if Hill shows progress, then keep him in the rotation. Marshall has been terrible since then, so I guess he hasn't really shown that much prorgress overall. http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=5905&position=P&page=0&type=full Just goes to show one, that four starts don't a career make. You should see a doctor for your myopia. Yeah, Marshall was terrible on May 1, May 6, May 17, May 27, June 2, June 7, and July 5. I realize that he hasn't been great recently, but if Marshall has been "terrible", how would you classify Hill?

It's omnipresence? Wouldn't it be easier to ignore than to goad then? I think people are trying to show how wildly irrational it is rather than egging him on. That's not the way I read it. Not only does he make so many comments that are off base and blatently wrong, but he doesn't even back up his statements with any sort of a valid argument whatsoever. He also seems to bring up the White Sox in every single post he makes. And I'm not talking about this thread since it's obviously going to be AL Central centered but most other threads. It is very tiresome.

Blasphemous.

Wait a sec. now? The job was his to win in ST and both Guzman and Marshall out pitched him. So lets not here the Cubs don't give Rich Hill many chances. It's not how many chances you are given. It's how you take advantage of those chances when you are given them.. So that's why I haven't won the lottery. Hill hasn't been given a chance. The worst thing is, I believe he still won't be given a chance. He'll get 3 maybe 4 starts and that's if he is good in his first one. Then when Marshall comes back he'll be moved to the bullpen or sent back to AAA. He's been given a decent chance and hasn't shown the ability to pitch at the ML level. Marshall has definately outpitched Hill this year and has earned his spot in the rotation. In Hill's four starts this year he has given up 5, 5, 3, 7 ER respectively. In Marshall's first four starts this year he gave up 4, 4, 2, 0 ER respectively. Marshall showed progress. Hill didn't. He shouldn't get more than 3 or 4 starts to show he can pitch at the ML level. If he has four outings like he did earlier in the year, he shouldn't be given many more. Now, on the other hand, if Hill shows progress, then keep him in the rotation.

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them. Agreed. I would prefer to give up Dempster but if either Howry/Eyre were needed to complete the deal then so be it.

Don't trade ARam. It isn't easy replacing a guy who averages 30 HR, 100 RBI, and does a decent job on defense. He's struggled this year, but everyone on the Cubs has struggled (except Barrett & Eyre) this year. The Cubs have lots of holes to fill, but 3B isn't one of them. Yeah, wouldn't want to pick up a guy who has averaged 45 HR, 125 RBI over the past 8 years (excluding this year because it's not a full year yet). His lowest OPS over that time is .887 (he is currently at .878 this year). BTW, that includes 4 years of 1.000+ OPS which includes one such year in 2005. Wouldn't want to have that guy.

it's not hitting the white sox should be concerned with... Yeah, plus where would they put him?? LF. Pods in CF. And then where does Brian Anderson go?? AAA That's real smart :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: They're going to mess up a young kid just to have another masher in the lineup. http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gifhttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j99/CubsBullsBears/LMAO.gif He's hitting .205/.289/.327. He's pretty messed up as it is. The Sox are trying to win the World Series, if they can upgrade the CF spot they have to do it. If Andreson can't handle a demotion with those numbers he can't cut it anyway. Offense isn't there issue. It's pitching I don't disagree, but you improve where you can when you can. If they can replace Anderson with a capable hitter they would be crazy not to do it just because it would "mess him up." He's as messed up as he can be now. Fine. So they improve on offense, but they don't address the pitching. That's real smart. If they get Soriano, they ought to change the ginder ball rule about power. Never underestimate the power of power: It has the power to destroy what the grinder ball was built on. Either way, they are still doing what's important: Improving their team. If they can't get pitching, they are improving their offense.

Really? Are you sure about that?

I don't think he'll care enough to get it over .900.

Close early. My vote is for AC/DC.

Harris's AVG in 2003 was .193, and his OPS was .506. I think I would've taken my chances. Just to throw something else out there, that game was tied. Let's just say the Marlins don't score that inning. The Cubs didn't score in the bottom of that inning anyway so the game would have gone to the 12th. My point is, how can you say that they trailed since the third inning. The Cubs tied the game in the 6th and Sosa's HR tied it in the ninth. If Sammy doesn't hit that, the Cubs lose anyway. Game 6 on the other hand, the Cubs were leading in the eighth inning. The Cubs lost Game 6.. The Marlins won Game 1 and the Cubs did not blow that game.

other than yesterdays game and his last start... I can not think of a single time he has KEPT us in a game. I believe it's called sarcasm.