NorthsideAvenger

If he wants to kid around with Dick Pole, can't he just make fun of his name? Because the type of jokes that revolve around Dick Pole are pretty much juvenile, sophomoric/fraternity type jokes. And I don't see Maddux as pulling a rowdy joke like that. Signing the baseball of his 200th loss, sounds like the kind of joke, Greg would pull.

you're just a stick in the mud, hardcore. 8) It was a joke, ok. Nothing more, nothing less. And I am VERY POSITIVE that Maddux and Pole laugh it off as a joke.

Ok, thx. With leadership like like Baker, who needs championships?

Ok, thx. With leadership like like Baker, who needs championships?

Bingo. They should have shipped Sisco back to the minors and let him work on being a starter, where he was most valuable. The Cubs were idiots not for letting him go, but instead for letting him go in exchange for nothing. Sisco was still a highly rated prospect when they let him go (despite weight/motivation/production issues) and could have gotten something in return in a trade. Who says the Cubs couldn't had gotten fair value for Sisco? We all assume that just because Hendry left him unprotected, doesn't he he didn't try and trade him. Maybe alot of people in baseball, didn't see much in Sisco, despite the 6'9. I like to look at it this way...the Cubs dealt Andy Sisco for Angel Guzman. I'm stretching it to a limit, but hey....we got Guzman from the Royals "trash-heap" and they got Andy Sisco from our "trash-heap." so lets call it even, and stop saying Sisco had value, cause of right now, Sisco has no value WHATSOEVER.

I heard that too. that makes no damn sense. I remember criticizing Jocketty for getting Rolen when the Cards needed pitching to put them over the top, but this trade takes that similar theory to it's absolute extreme. not only do the Mets get a guy they really don't need (don't forget Floyd is really heating up too), they add a ton of payroll and gets rid of a potentially great player (Jocketty didn't go that far). all of the rumors I have heard the past couple of days make no damn sense. then again, the one trade that went down (Nats-Reds) made no damn sense either. maybe Hendry is playing the Mets against the Dodgers for Maddux, and this is the Mets posturing to gain some leverage in that situation? either Ethier or Milledge coming our way? hey, I can dream, can't I? You think Hendry is smart enough to pit one team against the other, in the persuit of a mediocre starting pitching? I love Maddux, and he is a HOF, but any team---in this case LA and NY---an Andre Ethier or a Lastings Milledge (shades of Kazmir for V. Zambrano ringing loud in NY, perhaps?) should be laugh at. I take a solid package of Willy Aybar and Joel Hanrahan/Jonathon Broxton for Maddux right now, tho.

I'd still have a hard time arguing that the last 5 years of Koufax's career is among the best 5-year stretches for any pitcher in baseball history. He had an ERA+ during those years of 143, 161, 187,160, 190, which is outstanding, and he threw over 300 innings in 3 of those years. He is very much like Ralph Kiner - easily brilliant enough for a stretch to propel himself into the HOF and into the discussion of the all-time greats at his position. In the last five yrs of his career, he was so DOMINANT, that people forget he had a off and on to start his career. I mean come on people Koufax "overrated?' NO friggin' way. And you won't convince me otherwise. And I will group him in the elite of the best pitchers in the history of the game. Without a DOUBT.

The way Rodgers put it in that interview he made it sound like they want Either AND Broxton. That however would be crazy good, so I'll take either one of them or Kemp (who he also mentioned as a possibility). So it is Rogers who who stated these "rumors." I take what Rogers says, with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, I got a strange feeling that if the Dodgers are prepare to give up Broxton and Either or Kemp for Maddux (per Rogers rumor) that they may require the Cubs to take back Odalis Perez. Call it a gut feeling.

Or how about Willy Aybar of the Dodgers? They have Dewitt/Guzman/Mueller/LaRoche at third base in the org, and Kemp/Either/Drew/Repko/ in the OF, I think Aybar can be attainable in the Maddux deal. And how about Victor Diaz? I think the Cubs could get this young man for Walker. The Mets will re-sign Floyd, and have Beltran, IMO have Lastings (who they should keep) Milledge, and Xavier Nady. I think Diaz can be available. And a perfect compliment to Jones in LF. I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts on these 2 and know if anyone thinks that either or both could be a possiblitly. I'm not enamored with Pena, and Boston can keep him. And I would be intrigued with Betemit, but I have the feeling that ATL would rather trade Renteria and/or Giles to open up a spot for Betemit. So, my guess Betemit ain't available. But I do believe Victor Diaz and Willy Aybar would be a nice young guys to get at the deadline.

Come on dudes, Dusty is trying to save his job. So he has to ride the horses that got him here. I mean, he is determine to have Zambrano joined Prior/Wood on the DL. And then Baker can say...well, "I didn't have my horses."

I doubt it. He pulled a Ozzie Guillen either shortly before he was dealt, or after he dealt. What I mean he pulled a "Ozzie Guillen" in that he used a homosexual slur when talking about a fellow player, I believe it was. I want to say he may the comment before the trade, which set him up to leave Boston. So, I doubt Boston will be interested in bringin' the punk back to Boston.

would make me very happy. but they need to let hill pitch, like they've done with marshall. i think hill's much better than marshall and will make the better big leaguer anyway. I like Hill, but I disagree. Marshall is 3 yrs younger, and hadn't pitch too many innings over AA, and has relatively pitched well considering. Hill is 26 FRIGGIN yrs ago, and has proven that he is a GREAT AAA pitchers, but a medicre ML career so far. If the Cubs can move Hill, they'd be wise to.

:-s, eh?

Who? How about Cliff Floyd? I wasn't going mention anybody imparticular, but I decided to. At this point in Abreu's career he is SIMPLY not worth $15 mill dollar for a couple of yrs, no matter how good his OBP is. If the Cubs would do their homework (which I seriously doubt :roll: ) they could find more cost-effeficent (sp?) players with similar offensive skillset as Abreu.

Maddux has too much hair to be a coach. Otherwise I'd say make Maddux our PC!! First: I don't see Maddux as a pitching coach when he retired. In fact, I don't really see Maddux staying with MLB all that much to be honest. Outside of a few engagements, such as the HOF, and a couple of retire number ceremonies, I simply believe that Greg, once he reitres from baseball, he will RETIRE from baseball. He may coach little league, but I just don't think he has the patience, or the confidence to be able to coach other pitchers his style of pitching. Second: I believe Baker was drunk when he may the comment. Trading Maddux does nothing BUT HELP the Cubs. Now Baker don't want him traded, because that means the Cubs are officially giving up the season (which they should had done before the break) and with Maddux possibly being dealt, means it is possibly a mass exitus for certain. And when said certain players are dealt, the last management decision, will be firing Baker, or not extending his contract. Baker knows once Maddux is gone, it is not to long before his "horses" are gone, and he is out the door. This is another attempt by Baker to try and save his job, nothing more.

How long till we get Sammy Sosa, Vinny Castilla, AND Shea Hillenbrand?

I don't see what the Blue Jays ex-draft guy has to do with appreciating walks. That organization turned more sabr-centric when he wasn't there. You can point out little individual reasons why you think it's not true, but the big picture suggests otherwise. They are last in walks, by a wide margin, and the organization is dominated by overly aggressive hackers. There just is not enough to support the notion that he's coming along. Maybe he values walks to some extent, but the evidence shows he values them less than any other organization in the league. And that's what matters. the Blue Jays ex-draft guy is relevant because of the good discipline and walk rates of the hitters he drafted. the big picture does suggest otherwise Hendry has not valued walks in the past. that is why I suggested that Hendry is coming around, not that he valued walks all along. my point is not that Hendry absolutely, without a doubt values walks. my point is there is evidence that he's gaining a greater appreciation for walks. the fact that evidence has not shown up tangibly in the lineup to this point is really not material. further, 5/8 of the lineup that should be out there day in/day out are historically pretty good or vastly improved at taking walks. not great, but pretty good (Walker, Lee, Aram, Barrett, Murton). Who has Wilken drafted that has great plate patience? Rios? Wells? Both are allergic to walks (Wells less so). If you want to play that game of Wells/Rios are "allergic" to walks, then you have to mention the fact that neither player strikes out a ton either. Wells hasn't cross the 100 K's barrier during a season since he started getting CONSISTANT playing time. And Rios is on pace for something like 80 or so K's on the season. So they may not walk as much, but they don't strikeout as much. But to be fair, both players are having great OBP yrs (Wells .379, and Rios at .383 or so) with so little walks, but my guess is...both players have extremely high BABIP (or whatever that skill is) for the season. The game was "they have poor plate patience" You supported the argument you attempted to refute. Again, Wells/Rios DON'T have poor plate patient, they aren't exactly great, but there not poor. CPatt is has POOR plate patient.

vance, you know as well as everybody, that it was a TEAM EFFORT for this team to be this crappy, not just Sosa leaving. ---------- And about Sosa returning, well...the Surf Dawgs DO have a position open for ASH-clown PR stuntman, since they did trade Jose Canseco.

Hey, at least the Cubs are consistant. And with tonight's performance, and maybe one more good performance by Maddux, I think the Cubs should get a very good deal for Maddux.

I don't see what the Blue Jays ex-draft guy has to do with appreciating walks. That organization turned more sabr-centric when he wasn't there. You can point out little individual reasons why you think it's not true, but the big picture suggests otherwise. They are last in walks, by a wide margin, and the organization is dominated by overly aggressive hackers. There just is not enough to support the notion that he's coming along. Maybe he values walks to some extent, but the evidence shows he values them less than any other organization in the league. And that's what matters. the Blue Jays ex-draft guy is relevant because of the good discipline and walk rates of the hitters he drafted. the big picture does suggest otherwise Hendry has not valued walks in the past. that is why I suggested that Hendry is coming around, not that he valued walks all along. my point is not that Hendry absolutely, without a doubt values walks. my point is there is evidence that he's gaining a greater appreciation for walks. the fact that evidence has not shown up tangibly in the lineup to this point is really not material. further, 5/8 of the lineup that should be out there day in/day out are historically pretty good or vastly improved at taking walks. not great, but pretty good (Walker, Lee, Aram, Barrett, Murton). Who has Wilken drafted that has great plate patience? Rios? Wells? Both are allergic to walks (Wells less so). If you want to play that game of Wells/Rios are "allergic" to walks, then you have to mention the fact that neither player strikes out a ton either. Wells hasn't cross the 100 K's barrier during a season since he started getting CONSISTANT playing time. And Rios is on pace for something like 80 or so K's on the season. So they may not walk as much, but they don't strikeout as much. But to be fair, both players are having great OBP yrs (Wells .379, and Rios at .383 or so) with so little walks, but my guess is...both players have extremely high BABIP (or whatever that skill is) for the season.

Yes, Abreu is still a very good talent. But since LAST ASB till now, he has becoome more of a DOUBLES hitter with great OBP, then the all-around offensive threat he used to be. Not to mention Abreu is going to make $15 mill next guarantee, and as Stark says, whoever wants to acquire has to "compensate" him for waiving his NTC. Meaning adding more yr, and more bang for the bucks sorta speak. And while his OBP would look great in any lineup, he doesn't justfiy GETTING $15 MILLION dollars next yr. I mean he IS a doubles hitters at a HOMERUN PARK, to me...the lack of over-the-fence power is quite disturbing for somebody making SUPERSTAR money. Right now, if the Cubs want to find more players in tune with the OBP, they can find cheaper alternatives to Abreu.

If by "nobody," you mean late-90s Pedro, then yes. If you INCLUDE righties, in the discussion, then yeah, I would say Pedro was as good as Koufax (Pedro's better comparasion would be to Bob Gibson, mind you.. But I was assuming from the guy who started this thread, when he was trying to compare Liriano/Santana to Koufax, that were talking about LEFTIES as a whole. Now if you open the debate, then I agree that Pedro was in the same class as Koufax, as is Gibson/Clemens/Maddux/Youny/Matthewson/Big Train/ and th elist goes on.

In other words, Dave Kingman. Or Rob Deer?

Nobody WILL ever be better then Sandy Koufax, as much as I like Santana/Liriano, they prolly don't deserve to be mention in the same sentence. At least not right yet. And we all know the history of how the Twins got Liriano and Santana, much to the dismay of the Astros (Santana original team) and the Giants. Now the Astros, imagine if they had choose to hold onto Freddy Garcia, Bobby Abreu, Carlos Guillen, where would the Astros be with those guys? Baseball is strange, sometimes.

Needs to cut down on their BB's, but otherwise solid outing from "The Other Carlos."