UMFan83

Jim Hendry: Obviously obviously obviously obviously....

Angel Pagan. He's gonna be used in a trade for Khalil Greene. :wink: You can't trade Beltran Jr for Greene. We would need Brian Giles and Adrian Gonzalez to come back.

How many PAs can you see DeRosa getting this year if Roberts comes aboard? Lets assume that DeRosa starts 35% of the games. This takes into account Lou trying to get him into the lineup when perfectly healthy, Lou giving his regulars a rest, and DeRosa subbing for an injured player (assuming he can't sub at SS since he would be the starter if he could, he could sub at 1B, 3B, 2B, LF). That means he would start 57 games this year. Assuming he gets 5 PAs in those games, that is 285 PA right there. He will also probably get about 5 PA per week as a PH or a late game substitution (Lou loves his double switch). There are roughly 24 weeks in a season, so that would be 120 additional PAs, meaning that DeRosa would be looking at about 405 PA for the year. Obviously if there are serious injuries, he would see much more time as well. DeRosa had 574 PA last year, so the net effect of this move is DeRosa losing 149 PA this season.

Blah, get 'er done

He should probably join the TV booth instead to fill the roughly 1 hour and 45 minutes of blank air Hawk leaves available when the Sox are losing.

Man, are we really going to sit here and say Cabrera and Theriot are comparable shortstops? Theriot is marginal defensively at best and Cabrera is a gold glove shortstop. Just because Cabrera doesn't hit for power, doesn't mean he's not valuable. You have to throw out power statistics sometimes. Sometimes you just need guys who can play an important defensive position at an above average clip - while being a productive role player offensively. Well like I said, hes 32 years old, the age where defense presumably starts to slip, and he made $8.5 million last year and he is a FA next year. You want to throw Murton, Marshall and Cedeno (as was suggested by a poster in this thread) for a guy with possible declining defense and little offensive upside that might walk and get us a Type B draft pick after the season? Yes, personally, I would. Cedeno and Murton have next to no value to me (or most other teams for that matter). And I don't think Gallagher projects as a 1-3 starter, so also he's open season as far as I'm concerned. Cabrera gets us one step closer to the trophy with all the little metal flags on it. That's all I care about. Marginal prospects be damned. Edit: Upon proofreading, it probably looks as if I'm saying Gallagher is also a marginal prospect. Not really my intention. He's a pretty good prospect, but you have to trade pretty good prospects (or better) to get valuable MLB talent. I'd buy that he takes us one step closer if you can trade him for a pitcher at the trading deadline because with Dempster in the rotation and Marshall not available, we might be in some trouble.

I suggest that Hendry takes Kosuke over to Rise on Southport for some sushi afterwards.

Well we do have several known "insiders" such as Bruce Miles and peoriachiefs among others.

Kosuke: "I am very honored that you want me to play for your ballclub. However, when I originally agreed to play for your team, I thought you were a storied team filled with past success and championships. I at least figured that your city was in an area of nice climate. I see now why you have offered me, a lesser version of Matsui, millions more than any other team to play for you. Lets just hope the next 4 years go quickly."

I like Pie, but I am not saying why /Meph

Man, are we really going to sit here and say Cabrera and Theriot are comparable shortstops? Theriot is marginal defensively at best and Cabrera is a gold glove shortstop. Just because Cabrera doesn't hit for power, doesn't mean he's not valuable. You have to throw out power statistics sometimes. Sometimes you just need guys who can play an important defensive position at an above average clip - while being a productive role player offensively. Well like I said, hes 32 years old, the age where defense presumably starts to slip, and he made $8.5 million last year and he is a FA next year. You want to throw Murton, Marshall and Cedeno (as was suggested by a poster in this thread) for a guy with possible declining defense and little offensive upside that might walk and get us a Type B draft pick after the season?

Pros: -Good defense (I think thats still the case) -Decent BA and OBP last year -Probably an upgrade over Theriot Cons: -Made 8.5 million last year -32 years old -Is a FA after the year -Mediocre to poor power numbers -Only one season with an over 100 OPS+ (2003) Overall, I don't think he's worth what we'd give up for a marginal player who I'd have no interest in resigning after this season.

Jim Hendry will tell you it makes our team a lot better, because it gives us depth with DeRosa able to play 2B, RF, maybe SS, 1B, 3B with a decent OPS when others need a day off.

So Meph calls a poster's opinion "[expletive]," someone asks if he's elaborated, I give Meph's "I could but I don't want to" beaut and I'm warned for personal attacks? For quoting a facetious smart alec poster and giving my facetious opinion of the mindset? OK. It was my (correct) opinion that his (inaccurate) comparison was [expletive]. Who cares? It wasn't even you so let's not get our panties in a bunch over semantics. Actually if you were referring to my quote, you completely miss interpreted what I said. My comment was very accurate.

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP +--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 2003 22 CHC NL 18 6 30 30 3 1 0 0 211.3 183 67 57 15 50 245 9 9 863 4 0 2.43 4.33 178 1.103 MVP-9,CYA-3,AS 2003 was loooong ago. Let's face it, he is coming off a serious shoulder surgery, who is to say he will even be close to what he was in 2003? I'm just saying. Potential is why we care so much about him

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP +--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+ 2003 22 CHC NL 18 6 30 30 3 1 0 0 211.3 183 67 57 15 50 245 9 9 863 4 0 2.43 4.33 178 1.103 MVP-9,CYA-3,AS

Why couldn't Hendry gotten a PTBNL from the Yankees for Prior so that they could at least control where we was going

My best arguement is that Soriano played his best when Pie was on the 25 man. Now spill the beans.

Woah woah woah. I didn't say that people weren't justified for their attitudes towards top prospects. I was in that boat too. I'm just saying its funny to look back at players who we were all going crazy about who didn't pan out. You don't think its funny to look back at 2003 and see the types of trades people were turning down because they involved Bobby Hill? I feel like I'm fighting both sides of this argument now.

A) One Zambrano for every five Dubois is probably an excellenct ratio. B) You could not have possibly seen people say we can't possibly trading Dubois. It just never happened. The revisionist history of Dubois has gotten out of control. Dubois was never a big time prospect that everybody loved. Dubois was a guy some people thought could be halfway decent if they had 2 other solid outfielders to play alongside him. He was never an untouchable or anything close. He was never a darling. He was simply a guy people were willing to live so that the team could spend money on actual players. I was actually one of his bigger supporters on the board, but I never envisioned an OF of Dubois, Hollandsworth, Burnitz and Patterson. Dubois was just a body to fill a spot. Had they gone after a real corner OF, perhaps they could have lived with Dubois numbers. As it turns out, he never even came close to fulfilling the rather small expectations people actually had for him. Fine, I will give you DuBois, but there have been at least a dozen names people always wanted to keep that never panned out anyway. The odds of success are much more in your favor if you are the team dumping prospects for proven talent. Proven talent can always be turned into compensatory picks later to refill the farm system. Well I agree with you there. If we still had the archives from 2003 you would spend hours laughing at people's thoughts of Choi, Bobby Hill, Patterson, etc. I can't remember for sure, but I think at least 35-40% of the posters on this board were completely against the DLee - Choi trade immediately after it occured. When Choi started out hot in 2004 and DLee not, people had their signatures filled with Choi statistical updates compared to Lee. There has to be a fine line though between trading prospects and keeping them to actually use. Take the Red Sox for example. They spend spend spend. They buy a Matt Clement for way over market value and then don't even flinch when he pitches 20 games for them over 3 years. For every JD Drew they sign, they bring up a Kevin Youkilis. Look at their roster: Pedroia - Homegrown Youkilis - Homegrown Papelbon - Homegrown Ellsbury - Homegrown Bucholtz - Homegrown Lester - Homegrown 3 people in their everyday lineup plus 2-3 of their starters are homegrown. That's pretty good for a big market team. However at the same time, they have also traded top prospects like Freddie Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez to make additional improvements. And its not just the Red Sox that are doing this. For every Bobby Abreu they trade for, they bring up a Robinson Cano/Melky Cabrera/Phil Hughes to mix in.

They can have Felix Patterson as far as I'm concerned. He needs to be traded before teams start figuring out that he's lost against major league pitching. He's supposed to be this burner on the paths and he steals bases at like a 55% clip. I don't think he's got much of a baseball IQ and I'm not keeping him around solely for defensive purposes. Felix Pie first 177 AB: .215/.270/.333 Alex Rodriguez first 184 AB: .223/.270/.348 Boy, I bet the Mariners are glad that they didn't give up and trade him away after the first 184 AB. what a [expletive] comparison let's see.....Pie was a decent prospect who was 22. Rodriguez was the best prospect in the game, probably the best prospect in the history of the game -- even better than Griffey Jr, and was 18. you cant compare them dont pretend you can jesus Somehow I think my point went way over your head. I'm simply saying that over 180 ABs, there is absolutely no way you can say Felix Pie is a bust. I then found an example of a player who had similar numbers and obviously changed that around quickly. Felix obviously does not have the credentials that ARod did, nor am I even coming close to making that point. But Felix is not Ronny Cedeno or some other lightly regarded prospect either. He has consistantly been among the top prospects in baseball according to Baseball America. That alone should state that you shouldn't use his first 177 freaking ABs to determine how he is going to do the rest of his baseball career. Get it now?? Oh and I'm not Jesus but I appreciate the comparison.

They can have Felix Patterson as far as I'm concerned. He needs to be traded before teams start figuring out that he's lost against major league pitching. He's supposed to be this burner on the paths and he steals bases at like a 55% clip. I don't think he's got much of a baseball IQ and I'm not keeping him around solely for defensive purposes. Felix Pie first 177 AB: .215/.270/.333 Alex Rodriguez first 184 AB: .223/.270/.348 Boy, I bet the Mariners are glad that they didn't give up and trade him away after the first 184 AB. But did the Mariners have a hispanic(sort of) SS prospect fail to meet expectations in the years prior??? HUH?? It's a great idea to temper enthusiasm on prospects, but so many people take this to the extreme. Every guy who puts up good numbers in the minors gets "Dubois LOL!!" Every guy who's fast with some power gets "Corey with a K!!! LOL!!!!" Every SP prospect who doesn't dazzle from day one gets "The great Juan Cruz HAHAHA" Every top prospect gets "HEE STRIKE OUT!!!!" Well thats half of the crowd. The other half is saying Pie and Colvin for Santana? NO WAY!!! Why give up Kenny Lofton and Tony Gwynn for a 29 year old pitcher?

They can have Felix Patterson as far as I'm concerned. He needs to be traded before teams start figuring out that he's lost against major league pitching. He's supposed to be this burner on the paths and he steals bases at like a 55% clip. I don't think he's got much of a baseball IQ and I'm not keeping him around solely for defensive purposes. Felix Pie first 177 AB: .215/.270/.333 Alex Rodriguez first 184 AB: .223/.270/.348 Boy, I bet the Mariners are glad that they didn't give up and trade him away after the first 184 AB.

Pie, Gallagher, Colvin, Mateo, Cedeno for Bedard and Roberts. Only acceptable if DeRosa can play SS

From June 3rd - June 23 he got at least 3 PA in every game, most of them starting and hitting 2nd, a span of just about 3 weeks. The job was essentially his if he played up to potential. But overall, I agree with you, I expect him to improve over last year and needs to be given the opportunity.