CubFanPhilly

Very good signings: Aramis (the best of Hendry's career) Wood Miller Ward (considering the role) Bad money/years but decent players: Soriano (I don't like it, but if the Cubs were hell bent on going worst-to-first it had to be done) Lilly Meh signings: DeRosa Blanco Horrible signings: Marquis (perhaps the worst of Hendry's career) Prediction: The Marquis and Lilly combined signings will turn out to be a bigger waste of resources than Soriano's contract will.

Quite good - and it should happen soon. I count 39 on the 40-man roster without counting Ward, Marquis, or Floyd. I think Glendon gets DFA'd and Pagan DFA'd or traded soon.

if this is true then why is it all over cubs.com that the cubs signed marquis for 3 years? They may have agreed to a deal in principle. Heck even the total value of the contract may be in the right ballpark. But the devil is in the details. This deal could look much less bad if there are incentives and vesting involved.

I agree. He'll sign. Boras doesn't want to walk away from a big commission, Seibu wants the posting fee, and Boston is going to feel some heat from the league and their fans. My guess is 4/$48 mil. with FA rights after the contract.

Best news I've heard in awhile. That is, of course, assuming they're negotiating vesting clauses/incentives that might make the deal worth 3/$21 (or let the Cubs off with a third of that if he sucks), rather than negotiating the last $7 mil. that would make it worth 3/$28 gauranteed. xxfingersxx

88 - DLee and Soriano boost the offense. The pen is strong, and the rotation should be average. 95+ - if Prior is healthy and pitching like 2003, Marquis and Lilly pitch to career averages, Hill progresses, Wood is healthy and productive, and either Theriot takes SS from Izturis or the Cubs add at least one more big bat to the lineup. <75 - if 2 or 3 of: Prior, Wood, Hill, Marquis, Lilly go wrong. This really is a team that could be anywhere from WS champs to as bad as last year. Much revolves around Prior, Hill, and Soriano.

Any bets on who drops off the 40-man when Ward & Marquis are added?

Dave Roberts got 3/$18 mil. 1/$6 mil. for Lofton with perhaps an option for a second year at $6 mil. or $1 mil. buyout seems reasonable under the circumstances.

Wuertz is out of options as well, isn't he? I doubt Hendry goes into the season with the bullpen constructed as-is. Dempster Wood Howry Eyre Ohman Cotts Wuertz Even if Wood starts the season on the DL, there's not much flexibility because no one in that group has options. The Cubs have a few young candidates for the seventh spot in the pen. I'd put significant money on at least one of these guys being dealt.

My apologies, I mis-read the point of your post earlier. But the Cubs only potential arbitration filing was for John Mabry. As Tree said earlier in the thread, there's no paperwork to file for Pierre. CBA says: "A Type A, B or C Player shall be subject to compensation only if (i) he is offered salary arbitration by his former Club on or before December 7 (12/1 in the new agreement) pursuant to Section B(3) of this Article XX and signs a contract with another Club; or (ii) he signs a contract with another Club prior to December 7" (now 12/1).

There's nothing to file at this point. The team doesn't have to offer arbitration to a 3-6 year player. They have until December 12th to tender a contract to those players. If a contract is tendered and rejected, the player automatically gets arbitration. The player and club can reach an agreement anytime up to the arb. hearing (February). If a team doesn't not tender a contract by December 12th that player becomes a non-tendered free agent. You'll generally hear rumblings about negotiations these guys after the winter meetings. But often they don't get signed until after the deadline for exchanging arbitration demands (mid-Jan).

The deadline last night was for players who've filed for free agency. The deadline for players under the team's control is later in the month (e.g., Ohman, Prior, Zambrano, et. al.)

As a platoon partner for Murton/4th outfielder? I like him a lot (much more than Floyd). Would he sign on for that role? What would he cost? He'd fit the deep/flexible bench philosophy.

I'm only interested in Piazza if Barrett is dealt for Wells. But IMO [Jones + Barrett] > [Wells + Piazza + Blanco]

Agreed. Anyone willing to discuss an outfield with Dunn/Murton or Manny/Murton should be OK with Burrell/Soriano/Murton. It's a lineup dominated by RH bats, but check out the 3-yr. OPS splits vs. RH pitching: Soriano .842 Burrell .837 Murton .787 Lee .934 Ramirez .925 Barrett .810 DeRosa .686 And what's the trade-off? vs RH / vs LH Jones .826 / .650 Burrell .837 / .958 IMO, if Burrell can be convinced to accept the trade, Eyre + Jones gets it done today and only adds $4-5 mil. to payroll. Pie (later in the season), Moore, and perhaps Floyd (as 4th OF) would all be opportunities to put a LH bat and/or more defense in the lineup. CFP

It's possible it was dropped in the new CBA, but MLB and the MLBPA released detailed descriptions of the modifications and did not mention any changes to the quota system. However... 1) We don't have any definitive answer whether Ramirez counts. My opinion is that a strict reading of the CBA, his signing counts against the quota unless he "signed" before the deadline. But what does "signed" mean? Is a verbal agreement OK? If the contract is on the MLB fax machine by the time their offices open the next business day, is it considered timely? Did ARAM sign a contract before the deadline? 2) We don't know exactly what the quota is this year. It appeared that the quota might be as low as three A/Bs (a pool of fewer than 62), with a few players opting out of their contracts, few team options exercised and very few players re-signed by their teams, it now appears that as many as 91 type A/Bs were available. The CBA says the pool grows at the following intervals: <15 = a quota of one; 15-38 two, 39-62 three and over 62, the number may be adjusted accordingly. Assuming they use the same interval, the quota may go to five at a pool of 85 A/Bs. (The CBA isn't specific on this.) So, the Cubs could have as few as *two* A/B left under the quota (IF Ramirez counts and the quota is four). Or as many as *four* left (Ramirez doesn't count and the quota is five). My guess now is that the number for the Cubs is *three*: Ramirez counted, but the quota is five. I agree that the way Hendry is talking in the press that: 1) the rule has been dropped; 2) the rules is loosely enforced (I'd be surprised); 3) he can sign 3 or 4 more A/Bs under the rule (and one of their moves comes by trade); or 4) he's completely unaware of the rule (again, I'd be surprised- even considering it's Hendry!). ***PAGING MLPEEL**** (I wish that still worked.) CFP

If Hendry stays on long enough MLB can terminate the pension. Just send the old washed up vets to the Cubs and let Hendry fund their retirements.

He only wanted to be traded to a large market contending team at the trade deadline last year. That's not surprising - who wants to play out the year in a small market or non-contender? But I think another big factor was that Abreu was making similar demands at the same time. I'll guess that he'd expand that list considerably at this point, particularly if Hendry and Pineilla sat down with him.

Jeff Yes, the acceptance of a salary arbitration offer by a former player also exempts the signing from the quota. I don't agree that this makes the first rule nonsensical. Its seems reasonable to me that a Club can make an arbitration offer to a player who refuses to sign during the election period and then, if later, the player accepts arbitration that he shouldn't count as a FA signing. The Club has made every reasonable effort to resign their player and the fact that the arbitration acceptance deadline is later than the FA election deadline shouldn't count against the Club. CFP

No, Ramirez isn't one. He never filed the paper work.. The offices of MLB are open M-F. He may have missed the exculsive deadline, but never filed. so, we still can sign 3 more. Free agency isn't automatic, you must file. Ramierez filed a few days after the filing period opened. At least a week ago. Ramirez files You are wrong. They had an exclusive period BEFORE he could file. You should read up on how it works. Thanks for the advice, but I have read how it works. In fact I posted the whole bloody section of the CBA and highlighted the relevent sections in this thread. It couldn't be clearer. I'm done with the pointless debate. Everyone can read it and decide for themselves.

A $51 million cover charge just for the opportunity to sit a table with Boras to negotiate a deal for his client's services. If the Red Sox get him signed the total package is going to cost a heck of a lot more than Zito's opening demand of $105 mil. Unfathomable.

The Cubs have 3 left at their disposal. There were more than 62 Type A/B FAs. I don't agree UK unless the Cubs and Ramirez's agent can document the signing took place during the free agency election period. If it didn't, Ramirez and DeRosa both count against the quota.

Exactly. It eliminates the possibility of signing several lower cost A/Bs. That could be a real problem if you're trying to fill out a bench role and have to pick over what's left of the unrated FAs.

No. The quota for every ML team this year is 4 A/Bs. Unless a Club lost more than 4 A/Bs, then their limit is increased to the number they lost. Maddux, Walker, and Pierre would've only been three type A/Bs lost.

I can't imagine Ramirez counts. Imagine this scenario: The arb deadline rolls around and Aramis still hasn't signed anywhere. The Cubs offer him arb and he accepts. According to the old CBA, the Cubs signing "free agent" Ramirez in that way would not count against their quota. Regardless, someone brings this up every offseason and it never, ever comes into play. This is incorrect. Here's the language directly from the old CBA: B. Free Agency (1) Eligibility Following the completion of the term of his Uniform Player’s Contract, any Player with 6 or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next succeeding season shall be eligible to become a free agent, subject to and in accordance with the provisions of this Section B. (2) Procedure The procedure set forth in this paragraph (2) shall apply to Players eligible to become free agents pursuant to paragraph (1) above. Players who otherwise become free agents under this Agreement shall be eligible to negotiate and contract with any Club without any restrictions or qualifications and the Clubs signing such free 65 agents shall do so without regard to the quota provision of this Section B. (a) A Player eligible to become a free agent under paragraph (1) above may give notice of his election of free agency within the 15 day period beginning on October 15 (or the day following the last game of the World Series, whichever is later). Election of free agency shall be communicated by telephone or any other method of communication by the Player to the Association. Written notice of such election shall then be given within the specified time limits by the Association, on behalf of the Player, to a designated representative of the LRD and, effective upon receipt, the Player shall become a free agent. (b) During the period beginning on the day the Player becomes a free agent and ending on the expiration of the free agency election period as defined above in subparagraph (a), any Club representative and any free agent or his representative may talk with each other and discuss the merits of the free agent contracting, when eligible therefor, with the Club, provided, however, that the Club and the free agent shall not negotiate terms or contract with each other. The following subjects are among those which may properly be discussed between any Club and such Player: (i) the Player’s interest in playing for the Club, and the Club’s interest in having the Player play for it; (ii) the Club’s plans about how it intends to utilize the Player’s services (as a starting pitcher or reliever, as a designated hitter or not, platooning, etc.); (iii) the advantages and disadvantages of playing for the Club including the nature of the organization, the climate of the city, availability of suitable housing, etc.; (iv) length of contract; (v) guarantee provisions; (vi) no-trade or limited no-trade provisions. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the free agent and his former Club may engage in negotiations and enter into a contract during said period. Should they enter into a contract during said period, the Club shall be deemed not to have signed a free agent for purposes of paragraph (5) of this Section B. © Players who become free agents pursuant to this Section B shall, upon compliance with the notice provisions of the above subparagraph (a) and the expiration of the free agency election period, be eligible to negotiate and contract with any Club, subject to the provisions of this Section B. (3) Rights of Former Club to Sign Free Agent The following provision shall apply only to those Players who become free agents under this Section B. The former Club of a free agent, no later than by the December 7 following the free agency election period, may offer to proceed with the Player to salary arbitration under Article VI of this Agreement, for the next following season. The Club’s offer shall be communicated to the LRD, which shall notify the Association in writing. Said offer shall be effective upon receipt by the Association and the Club will not be permitted to retract the offer. If the former Club of the free agent does not so offer, it shall not be entitled and shall lose all rights to negotiate with, and sign, the free agent, until the succeeding May 1. On or before December 19, the Player may accept the Club’s offer to arbitrate. The Player’s acceptance shall be communicated to the Association, which shall notify the LRD. The Player’s failure to accept the Club’s offer on or before December 19 shall be deemed to constitute rejection of the offer. If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration proceeding under Article VI, provided, however, that the rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI shall be inapplicable and the parties shall be required to exchange figures on the last day established for the exchange of salary arbitration figures under Article VI. The Club shall be deemed not to have signed a free agent for purposes of paragraph (5) of this Sec- 67 tion B when a Player accepts salary arbitration pursuant to this paragraph (3). If the Player does not accept the former Club’s offer to proceed to salary arbitration as provided above, the former Club, after the succeeding January 8, shall not be entitled and shall lose all rights to negotiate with or sign the Player, until the succeeding May 1. (4) Compensation (a) The former Club of a Player who: (i) became a free agent under this Section B; and (ii) ranks as a Type A, B or C Player as defined below, shall be entitled to receive compensation subject to the provisions of subparagraph © below. Such compensation shall consist solely of the amateur draft choices described in subparagraph © below and shall be awarded in the Major League Rule 4 Draft succeeding the Player’s election of free agency. (b) A Type A, B or C Player shall be a Player who became a free agent under this Section and who ranks as a Type A, B or C Player under the statistical system of ranking Players set forth in the document entitled “A Statistical System for the Ranking of Players,” using statistics based on a two-year average for each respective position group. Type A Players: A Type A Player shall be a Player who ranks in the upper thirty percent (30%) of his respective position group. Type B Players: A Type B Player shall be a Player who ranks in the upper fifty percent (50%) but not in the upper thirty percent (30%) of his respective position group. Type C Players: A Type C Player shall be a Player who ranks in the upper sixty percent (60%) but not in the upper fifty percent (50%) of his respective position group. © A Type A, B or C Player shall be subject to compensation only if (i) he is offered salary arbitration by his former Club on or before December 7 pursuant to Section B(3) of this Article XX and signs a contract with another Club; or (ii) he signs a contract with another Club prior to December 7. Further, a Type C Player shall not be subject to compensation if he (iii) has not signed a Uniform Player’s Contract or reached agreement on terms as of the March 1 suc- ceeding his election of free agency; or (iv) has previously elected free agency under this Section B (or under Article XVII(B)(2) of the 1976 Basic Agreement, or under Article XVIII(B)(2) of the 1980 Basic Agreement as amended, or under Article XX(B)(2) of the 1990 Basic Agreement or under Article XX(B)(2) of the 1997 Basic Agreement); or (v) has 12 or more years of credited Major League service. For such Type A Players, compensation to the Player’s former Club shall be an amateur draft choice (“Regular Draft Choice”) of the signing Club and an added amateur draft choice (“Special Draft Choice”) in the Major League Rule 4 Draft. For such Type B Players, compensation to the Player’s former Club shall be a Regular Draft Choice of the signing Club in the Major League Rule 4 Draft. For such Type C Players, compensation to the Player’s former Club shall be a Special Draft Choice in the Major League Rule 4 Draft. (d) The Regular Draft Choice of the signing Club described in subparagraph © above shall be assigned as follows. If the signing Club is among the first half of selecting Clubs, then the choice to be assigned for the highest ranking free agent Player signed by such Club shall be its second choice, with choices in the next following rounds to be assigned as compensation for the signing of the other Players in descending order of ranking. If the signing Club is among the second half of selecting Clubs, then such compensation shall begin with the Club’s first choice. The Special Draft Choices described in subparagraph © above to be awarded to the former Club shall be made as follows. If the Club has lost a Type A Player, it shall be awarded an additional draft choice to be made immediately following the first complete round of the draft and preceding the commencement of the second round. Clubs which have lost Type A Players shall make their choices in the reverse order of their won-lost percentage in the preceding season. Ties shall be broken by lot. If the Club has lost a Type C Player, it shall be awarded a draft choice to be made immediately following the second complete round of the draft and preceding the commencement of the third round. Clubs which have lost Type C Players shall make their choices in the reverse order of their won-lost percentage in the preceding season. Ties shall be broken by lot. (5) Quota (a) Clubs shall be limited in the number of Type A and B Players, as defined below, they may subsequently sign to contracts. The number of signings permitted shall be related to the number of Players electing free agency under this Section B. If there are 14 or less such Players, no Club may sign more than one Type A or B Player. If there are from 15 to 38 such Players, no Club may sign more than two Type A or B Players. If there are from 39 to 62 such Players, no Club may sign more than three Type A or B Players. If there are more than 62 such Players, the Club quotas shall be increased accordingly. There shall be no restrictions on the number of unranked Players which a Club may sign to contracts. (b) Irrespective of the provisions of subparagraph (a) above, a Club shall be eligible to sign at least as many Type A and B Players as it may have lost through Players having become free agents under this Section at the close of the season just concluded. [/b]