Derwood

CIN: 1. Freel 2B 2. Lopez SS 3. Dunn LF 4. Pena CF 5. Casey 1B 6. LaRue C 7. Encarnacion 3B 8. Denofria RF 9. Milton P CHC 1. Hairston CF 2. Walker 2B 3. Lee 1B 4. Nomar 3B 5. Burnitz RF 6. Barrett C 7. Murton LF 8. Perez SS 9. Z P Wow, that's actually the best lineup Baker could put out there. My head is spinning

lineups coming late tonight....Baker can't decide between Macias or McClain at third base?

Houston/Florida goes 9-9, the Cubs will have to go 16-2. You say toast I say yep So you're saying there's a chance? :roll: If the Astros/Marlins go 0-18 (impossible since they play each other, but you know, we're in a fantasy world here) then the Cubs would only have to go 7-11

I'll go out on a limb and say that Dusty puts out a completely rational lineup tonight: 1. Hairston 2. Walker 3. Lee 4. Nomar 5. Burnitz 6. Barrett 7. Perez 8. Murton Okay, not completely rational, but it's Dusty we're talking about here...

and synonymous with championship baseball. And have a rich history and a winning tradition

Floundering? The D'Rays have won 32 games since the ASB. The Cubs have won 28. Just saying.

The jab about fundamentals wouldn't be so bad if he didn't routinely stand up for his veterans making the same (if not worse) mistakes. Alou's awful baserunning last year comes to mind. He handles vets and rookies differently, there's no two ways about it.

Especially if Lou "White Dusty" Piniella wouldn't play them much

Sergio Mitre is a good pitcher

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink: Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him. I just don't get hung up on our minor leaguers as others do. Mitre has shown me no development at all from his first time with the Cubs and now. You'd think by now he'd show some sort of improvement or at the very least not be known as just a question mark. Regarding success at AAA, I think that can become irrelevant after some time. I just don't see why he's not in the rotation by now, or at least the sixth man other than he's just not that good. When a team "thinks" it's in a pennant race like the Cubs do they don't really have the time to fiddle around with a pitcher like Mitre. I'm not saying he's the best pitcher out there but he has some value and IMO in time he will be a decent 4 or 5 guy for a team that has the patience to let him have his ups and downs and gain confidence. I do understand what you're saying and I just think Mitre is a player that is at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, not dominating but a functional 4 or 5 guy. As long as he's a #4 or #5 on another team I'd be fine with it. He is a guy who is in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he created the situation. As I see it now going into 2006, he'd be behind Williams, Rusch, Hill, Nolasco and Pinto (I could add Guzman to the list, but it's long enough already) for a spot in the rotation. Two years ago no one would've thought he would fall that far behind. If we deal him and he becomes a great talent, so be it. I doubt it, but so be it. And if the Cubs make a splash in free agency and add a veteran starter, none of those guys will make the rotation.

Which boss? Rothschild was brought in pre-Dusty. I don't know that there is any particularly strong relationship between the two. Dusty's guy is Pole, who could easily slide into the pitching coach's job. Further, I don't know how much Rothschild is enjoying himself. I could see him searching for greener pastures. Perhaps we can send him a Pepperidge Farms Meat and Cheese basket with our fondest regards and best wishes for better employment next year.

Will Baker sabotage Z the way he sabotaged Maddux with another asinine lineup? Magic 8 Ball says "Definitely"

Unfortunately, the only way we're likely to be rid of our pitching coach is if his boss goes too.

BP sure does love Dusty and the boytoys. I wonder what it will be like at the Cubs Convention next year? If they didn't screen questions in the past, they may consider it this year. While I don't doubt that Hendry will provide a vague, canned answer and Dusty will regail the room with stories of striped bass stealing his girlfriend away, it still wouldn't be a pleasant atmosphere if they were bombarded by tough questions from the crowd. Exactly that is the strategy Hendry and Baker will use....scripted answers and stupid antidotes. HA HA HA! The antitode to the blue kool aid they keep feeding us? If you've ever read a Joe Morgan chat transcript from espn.com, that is pretty much how I expect the Q&A at the convention to go. Question asked Vague answer/unrelated story Question never answered

Thank you. K's and BB's went down thus lowering his pitch count. I still think he could be a 4 or 5 starter but would require patience. Okay, I'm not saying this is you or anything, but why would people want to drive Maddux out of town but give Mitre a chance at the rotation? I know the salaries are in different galaxies, and I've been arguing mostly for the "Maddux isn't great anymore" side of things in the "Vesting" thread, but c'mon! I'll take 3 Maddux's in my rotation before I give Mitre a shot. I'm not sure how many innings a pitcher needs to show what he's got at the major league level, but 117 2/3 so far from Sergio have been awful

The Cubs are now 5-1 when Murton starts in LF.

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink: Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him. A lot of success? 2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate? Mitre at Iowa Age 23, 2004: 2.98 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.33 K/9, 3.48 BB/9, 0.79 HR/9 Age 24, 2005: 4.33 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, 7.00 K/9, 2.80 BB/9, 0.63 HR/9 OBA must have gone up then. If his WHIP stayed the same, his walks decreased, and his HR allowd is down, the 1.50 inflation in ERA has to be attributed to something. More hits? Higher OpOPS?

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink: Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him. A lot of success? 2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP Was that what he did at Iowa? As I said, correct me if I'm wrong and those numbers are not great by any means....average yes but not good. He has to get those walks down to be effective. How was his Homerun rate? Yes, sorry, Iowa. Extended stats were hard to come by. minorleaguebaseball.com seems to remove player stats lines from the site when they are promoted (or at least removes the link). mlb.com no longer has minor league stats in the player bios (and the minor league stats link back to MiLB's site.

Booing Dusty and Co. in the middle of winter? Save your energy and enjoy the convention... Let him boo. Why not express your displeasure for the team's choices in a forum when you're boos can be heard? The convention isn't just about blowing sunshine up each other's rears for 3 days.

Trachsel has made a lot of money throwing a baseball. :wink: Correct me if I'm wrong Dal but hasn't Mitre had a lot of success pitchng at the AAA level? If he was getting lit up there I'd agree with you in a second but he has something to offer and I'm curious if it just isn't a mental thing for him. A lot of success? 2005: 70 2/3 IP, 5-6, 4.33 ERA, 72 H, 22 BB, 55 K's, 1.33 WHIP

Turns out it didnt' matter that I missed the deadline, as I would've been one of the STL vs. SF casualties in Week 1

Last night's debacle has put the final nail in Mitre's coffin for me. I'm sick and tired of hearing people champion him for the 5th starter spot, or putting him in as a key piece to any trade proposal. MITRE IS TERRIBLE He is a lukewarm body taking up valuable 40-man roster space, and, were I running the team, would be the first cut this off season to help ease the Rule V headache that's rapidly approaching. In 117 2/3 IP at the Major league level, he has allowed 147 Hits, 82 earned runs, 18 HR, 44 BB's, just 74 K's, a 4-10 record, 6.33 ERA (this year's 5.75 is his best year to date), a .307 OBA and a .854 OpOPS. I don't give a fig what his numbers at AAA were. It's a smoke screen. Fools Gold. Smoke and mirrors. Whatever cliche you want to give it, it all adds up to the fact that Mitre's utter lack of ability is far beyond acceptable for a "playoff contending" team. So please, Jim Hendry, cut him, shoot him, deport him, sell him into slavery, whatever you need to do to get him off the team (he has no trade value, so sorry about your luck there). And let him take Macias with him. /rant?

You have the numbers to back that up? Because I would argue that Mitre sucks in every capacity involving a baseball, glove and uniform

Harang is a better pitcher. He literally pitches the ball better. That's not the issue at hand. You're a major league manager, your season has just ended. Would you rather have: The Cy Young winner (he clearly deserved the award because he had the best era, whip, etc stats he can control, but only 10 wins, out of his control. he had no run support) and just miss the playoffs or A pitcher with an ERA over 4.00 with 15 wins and make the playoffs In the end, who was more important to your team? Clearly you would like to make the playoffs regardless of who pitches and how well. This is sort of a silly question. That's like saying "would you rather have a team full of guys with a .380 OBP but miss the playoffs or a team full of 150 K hitters and win the World Series." Naturally the goal is the championship and not the individual performances, but usually one begets the other.

Right, Dusty...."Um, yeah, the dude was gonna play every game from here on out, man! Now he's hurt, that's just society...it's like hooking a bass with a wiggler on 30 lb. test but the loons scare him off."