RichHillIsABeast

Wait, don't we already have 6 starters for next year (if Prior is healthy)? We may not have a lot of great SP, but it's not like we can get rid of a lot of it easily either. I'd love to have better starters, but I think we're kind of stuck with the guys we have at this point - or is there something I'm missing? Z's extension is not on the front burner. Prior might not make it back this season, or ever. Hill might flame out (I doubt that very much). Lilly won't implode (based on his career numbers). Marquis might. Miller might never get his armstrength back. Our youngsters (Marshall, Mateo, Guzman) who are closest to the bigs don't wow me with their injury histories and poor performances. We have a lot of things that can go wrong with our rotation. I don't think that is likely, but we need to protect ourselves against the worst case scenario. Wasting another year b/c we didn't take more precautions is silly. Wood, Prior, and Miller didn't pan out for us last year. Rusch goes AWOL and gets sick. Our youngsters don't put out immediately and we got the third pick in next years draft. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to trade Jones for something other than starting pitching, but last year's injury fest scared the crap out of me. Never again.

Pie hit .283 with a .341 OBP in Iowa last season. He was really mashing the ball the last month and a half or so. .310/.365/.548/.913 (126 AB) August .444/.500/.889/1.389 (18 AB) September I don't know if Pie is "ready," but he's pretty close. Now average in his winterball stats... It's certainly a red flag, that's for sure. However, we don't know the full story. Pie could be working on certain aspects of his game (baserunning, going opposite field, bunting, etc) which could lead to a misleading stat line, instead of just playing his game and trying to put up numbers. I don't know that is the case, but that sort of stuff goes on all the time in winter leagues.

The only thing about that is that Theriot has already been moved to 2B in the past. If a poor arm is part of the reason for that, then it would be a deficiency again at 3B. Was his poor armstrength part of that? His competition in the system was Cedeno, who has a cannon and better range, so I don't know if the move was b/c he couldn't handle SS at the ML level or if he just got pushed to 2B to get playing time.

Pie hit .283 with a .341 OBP in Iowa last season. He was really mashing the ball the last month and a half or so. .310/.365/.548/.913 (126 AB) August .444/.500/.889/1.389 (18 AB) September I don't know if Pie is "ready," but he's pretty close.

I think the a Cubs acquisition of Hunter means he gets signed long term. I'll take Pie at the league min next season over big money Torii Hunter for years. IMO, if we're going to deal Jones, we need to be snagging some decent prospects and/or starting pitching.

He had 5 starts at 3B in AA. I have no idea why that happened or if he did a passable job there. I would think that he wouldn't have too much trouble with 3B. :?

DeRosa and possibly Da Riot.

Has anyone mentioned that with the acquisition of Soriano, we no longer have to worry about Pie being forced into the leadoff role?

I don't want to play...the last time I was given a choice between Cubs pitching prospects was between Zambrano and Cruz... I said to keep Cruz and trade Zambrano. If I was GM, I would have been Ed Lynched. Ahh, since I am already on the keyboard, I like Guzman. :lol:

Jose Macias? Dude, our bench situation was just solved. Give him a call, Jim!

No. You can't argue from the specific pitcher (Zito) to some other pitcher just b/c he's a FB pitcher. The evidence in that article made no link between FB pitchers and location, just Zito. There are many things that are different between pitchers, not just GB/FB ratio. That article did not isolate the effect. You are making assumptions on what the article said instead of just going with what the article said. Yeah, it's an AVERAGE. It lumps FB pitchers GB pitchers, and everyone in between together. It tells you next to nothing when you have guys with stuff where location matters and where location doesn't. Then we get two extremes, Zito and Webb. That doesn't prove anything in the argument, other than location is not important depending on stuff. He would have been better taking the top 25 pitchers in GB/FB ratio and the bottom 25 pitchers in GB/FB ratio and making his argument. Using two pitchers doesn't make any claims on the rest of the pitchers in MLB. That's fine. You're welcome to your opinion. I disagree. Oh, and about the Mr. Oxford Engish Dictionary comment. It was in reference to you explaining what "slander" meant. Thanks for being so condescending. It was both mature and added merit to your argument. Tit for tat, my redbird smothering friend.

Really? You said: "So much for Duncan being a pitching genius." and "Mazzone is overrated." If someone said either to your face about your job performance, you would probably feel pretty insulted. Slamming is "to criticize harshly, or attack verbally." You impugned both their reputations directly. You slammed them. OK, Mr. Oxford English Dictionary. Maybe you should look up "overrated." All it means is that the perceived value is greater than the actual value. Therefore I can say person X is still a great pitching coach while at the same time being overrated. Why is this true? Because you say it's so? How can you call him a great pitching coach...and then turn around and say he's overrated? Either he's a great pitching coach and his reputation's deserved, or he's not, and it's not. Frankly, people with a lot more inside knowledge than either you or I think he's one of the top pitching coaches in the league. I don't see how either one of us could offer a convincing argument to the contrary that outweighs the collective opinion held by people who work in professional baseball for a living. That's a logical fallacy. If that is the case, then you can't question the Marquis acquisition b/c the Cubs scouts and Rothschild, who is known as one of the best PCs in baseball by baseball insiders, approve of the move. Fortunately for you, that argument is bogus. If the majority, or the majority of some knowledgable group, always held the correct opinion, democracy would be 100% fullproof. You said: "When the wind is out, keep the ball down." and "You just have to change your approach." Presumably you meant change your approach from pitching up in the zone to pitching down in the zone. Both statements imply that you can change such things at will...which isn't the case. Actually, the biggest differences between the likelihood of a GB and a FB is pitch location. HERE is a link that shows that pitches that are low and on the corners of the plate are much more likely to be hit as GBs than pitches up and over the heart of the plate. People are usually in one of those two areas either because of bad location, or because of mechanics...neither of which is easily correctable. Even Zito, extreme FB pitcher that he is, gets more GBs than FBs on the corners of the plate. While "movement" can alter the trends somewhat, it takes a pitcher like Webb with his extreme movement to essentially make location a non-factor. Ted Lilly doesn't have downward movement like Brandon Webb. Location for him is important. If he had the ability to do it anytime he wanted to, he would. And again, I said I think Lilly will be fine with the Cubs this year...I believe he will have a good year. I just disagree with him being able to "keep the ball down" at will. Did you bother to actually read and understand the material in that link? It completely verified what I said. GB pitchers are GB pitchers b/c of stuff, and not primarily location. I'll quote from the link to you: That's all that argument showed. It didn't show anything about FB pitchers in general and GB pitchers in general, just Zito and Webb. Of course location is important for Lilly. It's not about getting GBs, it's about not giving up HRs. I never said he'd have to keep the ball down to get GBs. I was concerned about him keeping it in the park with the wind blowing out. The whole GB/FB thing was your paper argument. I'm sorry, but you can "change your approach." You don't think guys at the ML level can put the ball mostly where they want? Black on the outside. Black on the inside. Above the belt. At the knees. Are you kidding me? It is done ALL THE TIME. If you haven't noticed, pitchers don't pitch the same way from one outting to the next, one lineup to the next. Different batters are pitched to different ways.

Your unsubstantiated optimism is just as annoying as the pessimism that everyone complains about. Blanco is not awesome. He is a decent backup catcher. Signing a pitcher coming off of a year in which he allowed more than 6 runs per nine for multiyears and more than twenty million is indeed a bad signing. Why do you think DeRosa will shock cub fans in a good way? How can you make the claim that Lilly will have an era under 4? I can understand hoping or thinking but to say for sure that he will, when he has only once before is crazy. It's not unsubstantiated. Blanco is awesome. He calls a good game, has a good throwing arm, great footwork, and can take a walk. Is he an offensive catcher? Of course not, but he is among the best defensive backstops in the game. Our pitching staff signs his praises. There must be something to it, don't you think? You may evaluate a player solely on his offensive abilities. I don't. I think defense is very important, especially for your backstop. If we're going to judge a player solely on his last season, we never would have picked up Jones, who is more than worth his contract. That line of reasoning is bogus. Marquis has shown the ability to pitch very well in his career. If our scouts think he can do it again with Rothschild's help, I'll trust them. This market is flush with cash. Darn near every contract given out this offseason seems "high." That's just how it is. I doubt Marquis bent us over a barrel. DeRosa has altered his swing. Michael Young clone. Check out some of the Rangers games on mlb.tv archives if you get a chance. Does DeRosa have the raw talent Young has? Obviously not, but that swing will produce. He's not the utility player he once was. Lilly will have an ERA (my opinion, obviously not fact) below 4.00. Get him out of that homerun park and away from the monster lineups fielded by NYY and Boston and his ERA is bound to go down. Not having a DH in the NL can't hurt his numbers, can it? Wrigley may give up it's share of taters, but it's nowhere near the HR park Rogers Centre is. With the wind blowing in, it's actually a great park to be a flyball pitcher in. Lilly is obviously not the same pitcher as Arroyo, but Arroyo moved from the same division to the NLC. Arroyo never had an ERA below 4.00 as a starter. He goes to a bandbox and puts up a 3.29 ERA. That's an example of how drastic the effect of moving out of the AL East and into the NL Central is.

I think that might even be a little conservative, but I'd love that kind of production in CF.

If Lofton signs elsewhere (rumored to be headed to Texas), I think that makes Ryan Church a more likely acquisition for the Cubs.

Awesome. Gimme some Ryan Church in CF, baybee!!

You really think that any capable MLB pitching coach is going to overlook "several mechanical flaws" in a guy he's worked with for three years and who's currently struggling badly? You believe that Marquis went down to Florida in the offseason, worked with some guru, and *poof* all his "mechanical flaws" are now fixed and he's in top form for next year? Mazzone and Duncan are two of the most respected pitching coaches in the league. Slamming both of them doesn't support your take on what happened with Marquis...it just undermines the credibility of your argument because people are going to assume that you're viewing things in a less than objective manner. Turning a FB pitcher into a GB pitcher isn't really as easy as "changing your approach" for that day... People tend to be up in the zone either because of lack of control, or because of the mechanics of their throwing motion. Neither is really subject to a "quick fix" for the day. With that said, I also think that Lilly will be a fine #3 for you guys. I guess we'll see how Marquis pitches next season. That will solve our mechanics argument. Time will tell. I never slammed Mazzoni or your precious Duncan. I said Mazzoni is overrated, which is true. Most ppl think he is the god of pitching coaches. He's not. He had a lot of talent to work with and a guy like Maddux, who was a Cy Young caliber pitcher before he even worked with Leo. Maddux helped Marshall a lot. I don't doubt that a lot of the success of Atlanta's pitchers was due to him and not Mazzoni. I don't doubt that Mazzoni is a great PC, but he's still overrated. I never said we were going to turn Lilly (a flyball pitcher) into a groundball pitcher. I said flyball pitchers aren't necessarily roadkill in Wrigley b/c of the wind. Will flyball pitchers get beat down if they get the ball up with the wind blowing out? Anyone can get taken yard in Wrigley if they get the ball up. The difference between a GB pitcher and a FB pitcher is not primarily keeping the ball down or elevating. It's the movement on your stuff.

What makes you say this? Rothschild hasn't gotten anyone into form on a consistent basis since he's been in Chicago. Dave Duncan and Leo Mazzoni couldn't get him into form, but Rothschild can? Lilly hasn't had a sub 4.00 ERA since 2002 when he only started 16 games. He's a fly ball pitcher in NL Central. The Cubs will have to have everything go right for them for a chance to win the NL Central. Right now they look like a .500 ball club. Howry's been throwing a curve that he never had (after how many ML seasons?). Clement did pretty well under Rothschild. Z has turned into an ace. Prior was a stud, before non-pitching injuries derailed his career. Larry's record is just fine and if it wasn't for the Giles and Hawpe, we'd all be worshiping idols constructed in his image. Duncan missed several mechanical flaws that Marquis supposedly had fixed in the beginning of one offseason. So much for Duncan being a pitching genius. Mazzoni is overrated. I certainly wouldn't give him any credit for guys like Maddux. There's nothing wrong with being a flyball pitcher in Wrigley. It's actually a good thing when the wind is blowing in. Just pitch to contact, keep your pitch count down, and chew up some innings. When the wind is out, keep the ball down. Not all flyball pitchers get chewed up in bandboxes. You just have to change your approach. I think Lilly can. Lilly posted those numbers in the toughest division in baseball in a hitter's park. He's moving to the NL. No DH. No murderer's row. I disagree with your opinion on next year's record. If Hill and Z get hit by a truck we'll finish below .500, but that's not happening.

1) agree with you there 2) The whole organization didn't badmouth him. Maybe Dusty and some of his cronies. Hill was in the wrong, but definitely didn't deserve to be thrown under the bus like that. 3) Hill went from A ball to the bigs that year. Maybe '05 isn't the best example of how much Hendry and the org don't love him. So what if he didn't get more PT after one decent relief outting. 4) That rotation spot was there for Hill to lose and he lost it by bouncing curveballs into the dirt consistently in ST. Hendry and company have been pretty consistent on rewarding ST performances. You have to earn your spot when the chance comes. Pagan and Marshall did. Hill picked the wrong time to struggle.

I like every offseason move Hendry has made. I'm not too crazy about the money Soriano received, but the Ramirez hometown discount makes that a wash, IMO. DeRosa, Blanco, and Ward are very nice moves. I think DeRosa will really shock Cub fans in a good way. Blanco is just awesome. I love his game calling, defense, and the occaisional offensive outburst. Ward is a much better bat than Mabry or any of the Dusty crew. Miller could pan out big for us depending on how much arm strength he regains in the offseason. Marquis isn't a bad signing. He's pretty up and down from one year to the next, which makes me worry about the rumored 3 year deal, but Rothschild should be able to get him into form. Lilly is going to put up a sub 4.00 ERA this season. I don't think Wrigley will be a problem for him if he can keep the ball down when the wind is blowing out. When the wind is blowing in, he's going to go deep into the game if he just pitches to contact. I'm pretty excited about this next season. We have the potential to be very good even if Wood and Prior don't pitch one inning combined. If they do show up reasonably healthy for the bulk of the season, we're in for a great season.

Then we'd better get a DNA test done, b/c BBB has too much info about your son.

Meh. Chill out, abuck. No need for diaper remarks and snide comments. I simply stated that I knew who Rich Hill was quite awhile ago after you started the whole holier than thou routine. Sorry I used "absolutely" instead of "probably." My bad.

the problem is, there's probably no way hill pitches like he did in the 2nd half. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! dude, i've been pimping rich hill since you were in diapers. but even i'm slightly less optimistic about his 07 than some of projections i've seen for him. So there's absolutely no way he pitches like he did in the second half, huh? No way? could you please show me where i said that? and i don't need you to tell me how good hill is or can be...i was pushing for hill long before you strolled into town. so save your lectures regarding hill's awesomeness for two years ago. Wolverines fan here. I've known about Rich Hill long before you (two years? wow!!!), but that's ok. Whatever makes you feel superior on a message board. :roll:

the problem is, there's probably no way hill pitches like he did in the 2nd half. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! dude, i've been pimping rich hill since you were in diapers. but even i'm slightly less optimistic about his 07 than some of projections i've seen for him. So there's absolutely no way he pitches like he did in the second half, huh? No way? I disagree. He's done nothing but dominate at every level above low A, including the majors. He's fully capable of putting up a sub 3.00 ERA. He did it in A ball. Almost did it in AA. Did it in AAA. Did it in 1/2 a season in the bigs. I don't think it's a reach at all to think Hill can put up those type of numbers in 2007.

Actually, most of it has been fans fed up with garbage baseball. Speaking of melodramatic posts. It is what is is. The past two seasons have been nothing but bad baseball on the northside. I try to be positive. I loved the Soriono signing. Didn't mind the Lily aquistion, then Hendry pulls this off. 7(maybe 9) million for Jason Marquis. One 'bad' signing and you're off to negativity land again. DLee's '05 sure did suck. So did Hill's second half. Oh, and Z blows. There's some melodrama for ya.