davell

The payroll dropped 25 mill from 11 til 12 and we had around 100 committed. While they certainly added more pieces in 13, they had lots more flexibility as well. That was an extremely bad situation to walk into, needing a 3B, an OF, a 1B, at least 1 SP, and bullpen help as well. All while needing to lower payroll 25 mill from a team that had the 6th worst record in MLB and an average to below average farm system. The "we didn't try" mantra should be replaced with "we couldn't, given those ridiculous parameters".

Cubs attendance 2.643 mill, down 240k. 17 mill less revenue, close to amount they'll receive from MLB TV deal.

It pretty much involved a crystal ball and getting 100% of decisions correct. It also involves powers of persuasion to get guys to come to the Cubs at the deals they got elsewhere. Ah OK, thanks Tim. Kyle can go back to thinking our FO needs to be 100% perfect. I'm bored on my conference call, so I looked up the previous discussion. It's a little different and I was really focused on a particular point from CT, but it was possible to make different choices and come out with better results. But, that's easy to say now with the benefit of hindsight. Though, like sneaky, I really wanted Liriano. Getting Sanchez to spurn Detroit and getting the competent bullpen could push that number towards 20 though. Not even taking into affect Puig has since been mentioned as a warm weather guy. May or may not have been a true option. Playoff team with those 3 and a bullpen? Possible, although I honestly wonder if our FO would have brought Puig up as early as the Dodgers(correctly) did.

Pretty sure you did two of them altogether and complained from the start that people will see what they want to see. Neither of which were with these kind of budget restraints. And the second part of your comment, I'd much rather not take risky shots with a finite amount of money to spend, in case it doesn't pan out and sets you back further. The time to take risks is when you're further along, especially when the decisions to be made are not exactly cut and dry, everyone knows this is a good move type.

It pretty much involved a crystal ball and getting 100% of decisions correct. It also involves powers of persuasion to get guys to come to the Cubs at the deals they got elsewhere. Ah OK, thanks Tim. Kyle can go back to thinking our FO needs to be 100% perfect.

By the way, Tim, if you did one of those, point me to it. I'd love to see what you came up with, I must have glossed over it.

Bingo. And Kyle, I thought I just saw you mention that even with the financial restrictions, a contender could have been put out on the field. Sorry, but even you haven't gone that far yet. I've seen plenty of "if we had done this and that, well then maybe" stuff, but it wasn't EVER done with a truly restricted payroll, as we certainly have. So, either clarify, tell me I misread you, or actually come up with something that's reasonable(not literally looking back and getting every single FA that produced cheaply, since there happens to be 29 other teams in MLB) If you can't and go with "well, they're the ones getting paid to do this" I'll know you were just talking out of your ass. Sorry, I've been doing alternative offseasons for literally years now, and I'm done with them. It involves hours and hours of work, only to have the person decide "Well, you used all these parameters I set out, but there's one more I just thought of that you didn't, so it's all invalid." Sorry, but [expletive]. You're NOW saying they could have put a winner on the field in a case where our payroll was THIS restricted. You've never put out an offseason like that before and you know it. Just admit you can't, because with the inherited roster, it would have taken a crystal ball that no other team is privy to and literally make 100% correct decisions. And even then, I'm not sure it would have been possible.

Bingo. And Kyle, I thought I just saw you mention that even with the financial restrictions, a contender could have been put out on the field. Sorry, but even you haven't gone that far yet. I've seen plenty of "if we had done this and that, well then maybe" stuff, but it wasn't EVER done with a truly restricted payroll, as we certainly have. So, either clarify, tell me I misread you, or actually come up with something that's reasonable(not literally looking back and getting every single FA that produced cheaply, since there happens to be 29 other teams in MLB) If you can't and go with "well, they're the ones getting paid to do this" I'll know you were just talking out of your ass.

So, Dusty's not sure Hamilton is ready for the "pressure" and may not include him on the postseason roster.....

Most prospects flame out so you need a lot of them. Please tell us more. It's not like we have a minor league forum here that we dissect damn near every flaw anyone that sniffs our top 50 has. Jumping in on year 3 of this argument, you're not breaking new ground here, just go back and read. I've been on your side of the argument since it began when Theo took over, but you're not bringing anything new to this at all, because everything has been talked about ad nauseum already.

I'm sure Kyle can see we have a good farm system ranking currently. That's literally step one and by far the easiest step to take. Turning that into a strength at the major league level is much more difficult to do. We're in wait and see mode there and will be for another year or two.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2013/09/cubs-top-50-prospects-21-30/

By their thinking right now, I wonder who all is in "the core"? My guess is Starlin, Rizzo, Shark, Castillo, and Wood at the major league level. With Javy, Almora, Soler, Bryant, CJ, and maybe Alcantara in the minors.

To me, it's human nature to lunge for a water bottle that falls or food or whatever. Just as much so as swerving away from something on the road. It's reactionary, period. Doesn't 't mean you value one over the other or anything, it's just a reflex. Some people have it, some don't. At any rate, Burleson evidently does and he told the truth. Sorry, but I don't consider him an idiot for that. I call him human.

Major leaguers Theo has traded for likely to help next year- Arrieta, Grimm, Strop, and Wood. Position player is Rizzo. Guys in our top 30 or so that may help next year or down the line are Ramirez, Edwards, Vizcaino, Hendricks, Pineyro, Black, and Leal on the pitching side. Position guys are Olt and Villanueva. That's a pretty damn good haul over a 2 year period.

Maybe it's a criticism of not having any command within the strike zone? Gets the ball over the plate, but it's very hittable because of where it's located consistently? I don 't know and I know that THAT was a reach, but I do know that Bill Mitchell catches an absolute ton of games in Arizona, so I am apt to believe its not just some throwaway comment from a talking head that we get tons of.

No, he's really not. Injury-prone absolutely. And his velo was down 5 MPH tonight actually. If he can stay healthy, he can be a solid piece of our pen next year.

Personally, I can't see Girardi staying with the Yanks. They've got 100 mill invested in Teixeira, CC, A-Rod, Wells, Soriano, Ichiro, and Jeter(once he exercises his option). They've got Gardner, Nova, and Robertson in arb around another 10 mill or so. That's it. Their system took a step backwards and is below average at best. They need to replace Mo, Hughes, Pettitte, Kuroda, Granderson, and Cano JUST to get back to being an old, overachieving low 80's win team. And do it while trying very hard not to go over the luxury tax AGAIN, since its costing them so much in penalties at this point. They need a C, a 2B, a reasonable backup for Jeter, same with A-Rod, a couple of OFers, 3 starting pitchers, and multiple bullpen arms. For 60-70 mill. And they need multiple stars out of that group. Even if they're willing to spend 200 mill- I still don 't see them as a playoff team and they're just getting older. I could see Girardi picking us over that, especially given his ties. The Nats on the other hand.....

I respectfully ask for a list of posters, complete with their joke account aliases attached. Whoever Rawdog is though, should receive a yet to be determined cash bonus.

White Sox blew a 9th inning lead against the Indians, shooting for 4 now.

Go look at some of Kyle, Goony, and SSR's posts from back then. They laid out solid arguments in putting together teams that could have won 85-90ish wins if things fell right and did it within a 150 mill budget. They had every reason to think Theo and Co could draft well even if they were drafting 15th or lower. If anyone has actually said they expected Theo to work under the restrictions he's had to AND put a playoff team out there already, I've missed it. I was on the side of wanting to rebuild with the idea that this offseason was when we started making major moves. If Ricketts keeps that from happening, he'll catch a ton more [expletive] than he already has, which is starting to add up, as it is.

The entirety of our offseason discussions the past two years have been nothing but this. Some wanted a tear down, others wanted to add on to what we had. At this point, everyone appears to know Ricketts hasn't exactly allowed money to be spent, so we're where we're at and have to hope Theo knows what he's doing.(which I certainly do)

This is so far removed from what I posted that you just . . . look stupid. My post was in response to Mojo, not you. In fact, if you look back since people HAVE responded to your initial idea , you'll notice I've said absolutely nothing directed at or to you. You can quietly take the corn cob out of your ass now.

"Dad, the really cool thing about this is you can drop payroll forever if you want. The renovations and TV deal will pay for themselves and then some and no matter how bad the team sucks, dumbass fans will show up and get drunk in droves. Now I like the team a whole bunch, daddy, so once all this stuff gets done, can I please, pretty please daddy, have some more money to actually try and win a World Bowl, since you'll be making hundreds of millions by then. Please oh please daddy, we'd be popular and I wouldn't get swirlied anymore. Please daddy, you'd be the best daddy in the whole wide world!"

Bruce said Cubs are going to look at Gioskar Amaya at C during Instructs. That's very interesting.