Rob

Mind you, that's a play that Theriot very well might have needed to dive at just to get to. As such, there's no guarantee he would have made an error. Better range gives more chances to make "errors."

Since you're here, I was wondering if you could let us know if Hendry has been in at all on Wily Mo Pena or Bobby Kielty. They seem like the kind of guys Hendry would acquire to help out in right, and I'd heard rumors at least of a deal falling through for Pena going to an unnamed team I thought could have been us. I hadn't heard that such a deal fell through. Hendry and Co. no doubt are looking at both. Alrighty, thanks Bruce!

Since you're here, I was wondering if you could let us know if Hendry has been in at all on Wily Mo Pena or Bobby Kielty. They seem like the kind of guys Hendry would acquire to help out in right, and I'd heard rumors at least of a deal falling through for Pena going to an unnamed team I thought could have been us.

Which is what you should do. So you are confirming that you haven't heard anything about this? I would be absolutely shocked if this actually happened. Trolls start trade rumors on blogs at every trade deadline. Did anyone check whether this was the blogger's first post (or one of them)? It was his first post. It's not a surprise. Thank god we have Bruce here to keep us in check before we get too rumor crazy. To be fair, I am very impressed with the restraint shown by everybody here. I half expected this thing to balloon to 30 pages inside of 4 hours.

I'm in the same boat. I'd love to see it happen, but I wont believe it til Bruce Miles clues us in or the Cubs.com website makes an official announcement.

Yeah, Bruce said right field, and I'm inclined to believe him on that account. At any rate, using somebody with Soriano's skillset outside of CF or RF is about as dumb as it gets... especially when failure to do so relegates a cheap and effective player to AAA duty because he has no position to play.

http://allstar.rotoworld.com/scb/lm/reports/player.asp?sport=BB&Leaguenum=9592&Mode=&X=7670&Y=0 Note: the source is the Chicago Sun Times To me, it couldn't sound any less like Lou had any confidence in Theriot at short in that one... a sort of "my back is to the wall" moment for him. Referring to SS http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/358886,CST-SPT-cubnt26.article Interestingly enough, Theriot played 86 games at 2B compared to 36 games at SS in 2005 (the year Theriot refers to).

You're saying this like you have. i've heard him say it before. And everybody else has heard him say we'd "try him out" at SS. Which meant he'd try him as a starter Considering his only goal was to replace Izturis, who is one of the singular worst hitters in the league, and average at best defensively. Obviously, Lou knew that Theriot couldn't hit any worse. He was questioning if the offensive boost would be worth the downgrade on defense. Downgrading on average defense = Bad defensively Bad defensively = Not a "natural" SS

You're saying this like you have. i've heard him say it before. And everybody else has heard him say we'd "try him out" at SS.

The unintentional comedy value of this thread has gone through the roof. Calling Cedeno up has already been worth it, and going hitless the rest of the season wouldn't change that for me.

Muskat? :lol: You only have as much credibility as your sources... using wikipedia, Muskat, and the infamous "knowledgable people" isn't really helping you make your point.

Or just disappears completely. Neither will happen i'm not wrong. Being stubborn isn't the same as being right.

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first. Theriot is not a natural SS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot This is what it says at your link. Haha, I'm not getting into this debate, but check the edit history on that wiki page. Someone just changed it to say "a natural at second base". Oh, it was definately me. I was just proving that using wikipedia as a source is about as rookie a mistake as there is.

Before insulting people you should probably heed your own advice first. Theriot is not a natural SS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Theriot This is what it says at your link.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink: His defense doesn't worry me one bit. Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day. Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good. And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I. Seems to me like Cedeno is slightly above average ranging to his right yet terrible at ranging to his left(which makes sense cause that's what I remeber), while Theriot is much better at ranging to his left and the difference sems to make Theriot a better SS. Besides how many of Cedeno's errors are 2-base errors, compared to Theriot's minimal errors. Theriot played two games for a total of 17 innings at SS last year. If that's not small sample size, I don't know what is. Besides, anybody who's watching the Cubs can tell that Theriot doesn't have hardly anything in the way of range.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. Why on earth are you using batting average to judge a player's offense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought. :wink: His defense doesn't worry me one bit. Great range don't mean crap when he drops the ball every time he gets to it, and considering the hitter paradise in Iowa's AAA league, I don't agree with this call up one bit. Need I remind you we have a right fielder who lives life day to day. Take a look at his probabilistic model of range page from last year. Even in a year where he made a uncharacteristically high number of errors, he did enough on balls that nobody else would get to to make him right about the definition of average defensively. Theriot isn't even that good. And Sean, I just didn't feel like crunching the numbers myself. I know it's lazy, but so am I.

Cedeno hasn't been hitting for as much power recently, I'll grant... but he's still batting .310 in his last 10 games. And why on earth are you using errors to judge a player's defense? I thought the world was past that archaic mode of thought.

Oh, you crazy broad. :wink: I'm not sold on Lopez having anything resembling real power, even for a SS. 2005 seems likely to be his career year, and it's mostly park-driven. That being said, perhaps a move to a contender would help him focus a bit more, and if he could, he could be a slight upgrade over Theriot at short. He'd cost us more on defense, but he'd be pretty likely to sustain a higher enough OBP to be a net positive for us, production wise. I would question the deal based on how much talent and how much money we'd be on the hook for, though. The problem in my eyes is that Cedeno has the potential to put up comparable offensive numbers overall (a bit more slugging, a bit less OBP), while being a large boost to us defensively. And since he was just called up according to ESPN, I'd rather take my chances with Cedeno.

Side note: Given how ridiculously non-agressive Quade has been at third base, how on earth do we know it wasn't him holding Murton up? Even forgetting the Murton stuff for a moment, Quade has been a huge failure as 3B coach, IMHO. I'd say it's pretty likely he had some part in the screwups there.

Teixeira has played RF previously, so it's hardly a stretch to put him out there, sign him to an extension, and have him move to first in three years when DLee's contract runs out. Hard to do, but much more logical than signing ARod and moving him to a position where his defense isn't near as valuable, then trading off one of our best hitters.

Right now, I'm in a standard 12 team h2h league with OBP and IP added. As of this week, I am in first place with a 114-61-17 record, good for a .638 winning percentage. The guy in second place is 14.5 games back at the moment. He's actually closer to the guy in 9th place than he is to me. I guess that's just the benefit of a nine week winning streak, though. 2/3 of the way through the season, how is your team holding up?

This is horrible. Hopefully MLB steps up and helps take care of that poor family.

I don't think EPatt would be too terribly extended in CF, especially since all I keep hearing about him is that he's gonna have to move into the OF anyways. And Botts slots in nicely at the 1B vacancy.

Personally, while I think they'll go straight after Pie, I think they'd fold on that demand if we held off and offered extra prospects. And since I still feel Marshall is outperforming what we can reasonably expect of him by a decent margin, I'd be willing to put him in the deal and see what a guy like Gallagher or Holliman could do as our fifth starter until Guzman gets healthy. Veal, Marshall, EPatt, Huseby, and Soto might bankrupt our farm system, but I think it would be worthwhile to get Teixeira.

It's definitely going to cost more than Soto, EPatt, and Veal to get Tex, but I would absolutely love to have him on the team. Could you imagine a lineup like this: 1. Soriano LF 2. Derosa 2b 3. Lee 1b 4. Aram 3b 5. Teixeira RF 6. Jones CF 7. Cedeno/Theriot SS 8. Hill/Kendall 9. pitcher =P~ 1. Soriano LF 2. Lee 1b 3. Teixeira RF 4. Aram 3b 5. DeRosa 2B 6. Jones CF 7. Cedeno/Theriot SS 8. Hill/Kendall 9. pitcher Much better Soriano LF Lee 1B Teixeira RF Ramirez 3B DeRosa 2B Jones CF Cedeno/Theriot SS P Hill/Kendall Even better still. :wink: