i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll I'll do it for you. :roll: Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player? In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths. Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in. Is there any stat that shows how much each player's defense costs their teams? Because, IIRC, when there was talk of Manny being traded, many on this board were posting stats showing that Manny really wasn't that bad in the field, and that his defensive lapses were overblown. Either way, it's pretty worthless to compare Barrett to Ramirez. Totally different players at different positions. You can use the DT translations, though they aren't that accurate. And the Dewan +/- system and Probabilistic Model of Range have trouble with the Big Green Monster.