Rob

Everybody here seems to be forgetting who is going to be leading off the next inning for us. Fukudome DeRosa Soto Cedeno P (Ward) Soriano Believe, folks.

too bad lilly became a little girl and couldnt pitch with a huge lead Ummm, that's not exactly the story line of the game. He wasn't good but the defense has been atrocious and the bullpen porous. Lilly gave up 7 hits and 2 walks (with only one strikeout) in 3.2 IP. No extra baserunners reached because of the defense... they advanced a bit more quickly, but they were on anyways. Lilly was pretty much terrible.

I can't watch...

That might have been the most disappointing fan cam of all time. Where were all the hot girls?

Get Marmol up.

That's only true if you are ignorant to his minor league stats... which you probably aren't. You can't pretend minor league stats aren't generally going to be pretty good indicators of future success.

He's an interesting case, as the entire book on him has changed since he came into the organization last season (in the Bynum deal). When he got here, Rothschild taught him a cutter which he has really taken to... and we're still just kinda trying to see how he keeps going. My guess? He could be better than Marquis... maybe Dempster. I don't see him anywhere near the top 3 guys, though.

At this point, I think this is simply trolling. You're trying to rile up the sizable pro-Cedeno crowd here. Pardon? What is your problem? I didn't even bother to read the previous posts in this thread, nor is there a reason to. I merely logged on here to express my utter disbelief that Cedeno continues to get chances to suck on this roster. I've been a member here for a few years, and have numerous posts. Your "trolling" comment is offensive and belittling; I'd suggest you rethink your comment. Isn't this a game thread - a place where forum members can post their comments on the game? You'll have to excuse him. He was just assuming nobody was ignorant enough to accuse the man who smacked a three run double over the CFs head of being a terrible baseball player. If you were really trying to argue that Cedeno is a terrible ballplayer, I'd love to hear whatever asinine explanations you have to back that up.

Compared to who? Theriot doesn't get to that ball and two runs score either way. I didn't say that Theriot would have gotten to that ball, but if he did, I doubt it ends up in the stands. But he wouldn't have, so it's moot. I'm not the one who brought up Theriot. Good stops fantastic, but if you throw it into the stands or into the dugout, it's a waste. For the last time...Theriot doesn't even get to the ball in the first place, and the runs still score. For the last time.....Cedeno makes too many terrible defensive plays to start. HE COULD HAVE HELD ONTO THE BALL. Theriot isn't part of the question. Exactly. Theriot wouldn't have been part of the equation. It would have gone off the bat until Soriano picked it up. Theriot doesn't make enough defensive plays to start.

4 ER

Lilly couldn't buy a strike with a 7-0 lead. Ridiculous.

Kosuke finally walks today. I was starting to get worried since it was taking so long.

I love the DH... but only in the All-Star game. I don't want to go to an All-Star game and see Pedro Martinez swing a bat.

I picked a damn good game to go to.

That's just silly. Once Toronto falls out of playoff contention, they'll be itching to get rid of Burnett. If he's healthy and pitching well, he'll opt out of his contract at the end of the season, and they wouldn't get any compensatory draft picks for that. If he's not healthy at the end of the season, he wont exercise the opt-out, which puts Ricciardi (whom has already publicly traded jabs with Burnett) in the situation of having an injured ace making twelve million for each of the next two years. Burnett's contract is going to screw Toronto one way or the other. Letting Ricciardi name his price would be utterly foolish. Play hardball in negotiations and walk away with a good chunk of your top-tier talent still intact instead. I believe the bolded part is not true. It isn't. I was under the distinct impression that opt-out clauses are different from simple player options in that they preclude offers of arbitration.

Yeah the difference was Prior was actually a great pitcher and not just above average. Mike Hampton was better than just "above average" before he signed that contract. Year - Age - IP - OPS+ 1995 - 22 - 150.2 - 116 1996 - 23 - 160.1 - 108 1997 - 24 - 223.0 - 104 1998 - 25 - 211.2 - 122 1999 - 26 - 239.0 - 154 2000 - 27 - 217.2 - 142 ----Signs Contract---- 2001 - 28 - 203.0 - 98 2002 - 29 - 178.2 - 78 2003 - 30 - 190.0 - 112 2004 - 31 - 172.1 - 101 2005 - 32 - 69.3 - 121 2006 - 33 - DNP - DNP 2007 - 34 - DNP - DNP In hindsight, it seems pretty obvious that he was being overworked during his peak years, and he's never really recovered from it. We know now that no pitcher should ever be given a contract that long, as the inherent risk is just too great... but there weren't exactly a whole lot of pitchers with better track records at the time. The contract is understandable for a team that felt backed into a corner by its unique park situation affecting pitchers... But it's important to remember that there's a world of difference between taking an extremely expensive risk on a damn good pitcher like Hampton was, or handing out a very expensive contract to a known commodity like Pierre, who never had any real chance of being a positive contributor to a winning ballclub. Hampton's contract isn't the worst in history; Juan Pierre's is.

His stuff has never been the issue; Dempster has always had nasty movement on all his pitches. It's always been about control and command... and color me skeptical that Dempster has finally learned to put his pitches where he wants.

That's just silly. Once Toronto falls out of playoff contention, they'll be itching to get rid of Burnett. If he's healthy and pitching well, he'll opt out of his contract at the end of the season, and they wouldn't get any compensatory draft picks for that. If he's not healthy at the end of the season, he wont exercise the opt-out, which puts Ricciardi (whom has already publicly traded jabs with Burnett) in the situation of having an injured ace making twelve million for each of the next two years. Burnett's contract is going to screw Toronto one way or the other. Letting Ricciardi name his price would be utterly foolish. Play hardball in negotiations and walk away with a good chunk of your top-tier talent still intact instead.

A lot. I can't see Beane selling Harden unless he was getting a package worthy of an ace. Harden's health isn't going to give anybody much of a discount. If we came calling, I imagine he'd be asking for Hill and Pie to start. We could probably bargain Hill out of the deal, but it'd cost us most of the stuff on the top of our system.

Our #17 prospect according to Baseball America and the youngest starting pitcher in the entire Midwest League last year.

I don't wonder. You have proof then? Faith is a fact. 10 points to the person who gets that pop culture reference. AD Bingo

I don't wonder. You have proof then? Faith is a fact. 10 points to the person who gets that pop culture reference.

I don't wonder.

Demp is going to be good/decent on some days and awful on others. That's how he was for his starts in 05. People forget he threw a couple of really good games. Demp's starts in 05: 3.2 IP, 7 ER, 9 H, 3 BB, 7 SO 6 IP, 0 ER, 4 H, 3 BB, 7 SO 6 IP, 3 ER, 6 H, 3 BB, 5 SO 6 IP, 1 ER, 4 H, 3 BB, 4 SO 5.1 IP, 6 ER, 8 H, 5 BB, 7 SO 6.2 IP, 3 ER, 6 H, 5 BB, 6 SO Demp's start today: 6 IP, 1 ER, 3 H, 2 BB, 5 SO

felix pie says hi Felix has a higher OPS than Theriot, and actually has some defensive value. Your argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on here...