RynoRules

Probably right. What else could we add? Think aloud, please.

Strange trade.

It's quite possible. It's also quite possible that he's Adrian Beltre redux. That is a good point, but I think Soriano pre-walk year was better than Beltre was pre-walk year (by some margain). Thus, it appears to be less a motivation issue (which is Beltre's problem) than maturing as a hitter (Soriano's problem?). Still, I see your point.

That is what I was thinking. It seems to me that has always had the talent, and now the light has gone on.

I actually like the idea of holding out for something significant, even though he's not really worth much. Teams get stupid when going after name pitchers. You never know. well, yeah, hold out as long as you can. but if he's left to rot on the cubs' roster 8/1 because hendry couldn't get a top of the line prospect for him, i'm going to be kinda upset. if the cubs were in the dodgers position and they traded murton (who is half the prospect ethier is) for a guy like maddux, i'd be irate. i can't get too excited for the cubs being in sell mode for the first time in a while anyway because of how hendry and co. judge prospects and draft picks. i'm not getting my hopes up. Sort of contradictory: you don't trust Hendry to do the right thing in evaluating other teams' talent (a legit criticisim, IMO). But now Hendry is apparently willing to do the right thing and go after a good one, but you are killing him for shooting too high. Can't have it both ways, no? no, it's not contradictory. i don't think it's worth the risk of holding out for a top prospect because a) i doubt maddux will net a top prospect and b) i doubt i'll think much of hendry's idea of a top prospect anyway. now, if he's really after ethier, then i'll give him some credit (as far as talent evaluation), though i'm not 100% convinced that's the case. OK, but if he is in fact after Ethier (as is being reported) and is holding out in an attempt to get him, wouldn't that be a good thing? How can you criticize him for that?

I actually like the idea of holding out for something significant, even though he's not really worth much. Teams get stupid when going after name pitchers. You never know. well, yeah, hold out as long as you can. but if he's left to rot on the cubs' roster 8/1 because hendry couldn't get a top of the line prospect for him, i'm going to be kinda upset. if the cubs were in the dodgers position and they traded murton (who is half the prospect ethier is) for a guy like maddux, i'd be irate. i can't get too excited for the cubs being in sell mode for the first time in a while anyway because of how hendry and co. judge prospects and draft picks. i'm not getting my hopes up. Sort of contradictory: you don't trust Hendry to do the right thing in evaluating other teams' talent (a legit criticisim, IMO). But now Hendry is apparently willing to do the right thing and go after a good one, but you are killing him for shooting too high. Can't have it both ways, no? If he holds out and trades Greg at the last second for a B-level guy or two, we will know that an A-level guy like Ethier wasn't made available, even though JH tried to get one (assuming the veracity of Stark's report). So why not hold out? And since you mentioned it, how about Murton and Maddux for Ethier and low level prospect?

Ethier's stats (not including 06', which I have not tracked down yet): http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/E/Andre-Ethier.shtml 2006: http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=444843 :thumleft:

BUMP: From Jayson Stark at ESPN.com: If true, a step in the right direction by JH. I'd send someone else along with Maddux to get Ethier.

Yes, its at least partially the player's faultb/c he is a professional making millions who should give his best effort every time out and should have pride in what he does. EDIT: But Dusty is also a major part of this.

I'm plenty willing to wager that ARod's decline will be better than ARam's peak. Especially over the next several years. Seconded. A-Rod is one of the top five players of the last 25 years, and likely top ten all-time. If he retired today at age 30 he'd be a unanimous HOFer. Coming into this season he had a career line of .307 / .385 / .577 (largely at the SS position) and is the youngest person ever to hit 450 HRs. How can you justify an argument that ARam will ever outproduce ARod?

Yankees fans are pretty much panicking with the team under .600, but management doesn't seem the least bit interested in rushing Matsui or Sheffield back to the field. They also understand how to not fold the franchise when a good player goes down. It's amazing that the Cubs seem to be the only team that can not overcome adversity. That's a huge difference between the Cubs and just about every other franchise in the game.

ESPN Radio says McDougal is a done deal. I think Williams thinks he has to wn with hitting this year and hope that his staff as it currently exists gets its act together.

I have much enjoyed the Mabry error.

You and Pedro are drinking from the same Kool Aid, and its apparently spiked with Angel Dust. I thought it was clear I was being facetious. It was, I was just having some fun. I see, and for what it's worth -- there was a little sumthin'-sumthin' in what I had for lunch. You had a prostitute for lunch? apparently named Angel Dust.... I'd buy that for a dollar.

Tim Kurkijan on ESPN reporting Sox close to acquiring Soriano in exchange for McCarthy. Also close to gettiong McDougal from KC for a single pitching prospect.

You and Pedro are drinking from the same Kool Aid, and its apparently spiked with Angel Dust. I thought it was clear I was being facetious. It was, I was just having some fun.

You and Pedro are drinking from the same Kool Aid, and its apparently spiked with Angel Dust.

Anyone else smell another deal for a 27 year old A pitcher with a 6.48 career ERA? "But he was the 74th best Padres prospect in 2000" He's worth more than Williamson. That said, I like L.A.'s prospects better.

Can someone with greater knowledge explain to me why Fontenot isn't getting a shot up here? He looks like a pretty good hitter based on those nos. this year.

Cubs Bulls Bears wrote: That's as ignorant a comment as I have read in some time. What evidence do you have to support that conclusory and naked statement? Is this the same Reinsdorf who gave Michael $35 million for one year's work in 97'-98'? The same guy who gave Jay Williams a huge buyout worth millions after he nearly killed himself on a motorcycle after his rookie year? The guy who just gave Wallace tens of millions of dollars?

For the right combination of players, I'm willing to deal one of them. Yup.

What she said.

because how one organization's teams (out of six) did against one team over the course of eight measly games tells you absolutely nothing about their system as a whole. sorry, but if reputable scouting/minor league publications say their system, as a whole sucks, that holds more weight than the fact that you've seen their low A team play decent ball over an eight game span against the chiefs. I don't think he that his sole point was that those guys are good b/c they have beaten up on the Chiefs; I thought he was saying that he has seen the two prospects in person and that they looked good (see his earlier posts in this thread).

the bolded part is the operative sentence. the return on the trade doesn't look great to me, but noone on this board is in a postion to accurately assess these young pitchers. the farther down in the minors, the less likely the numbers will reflect what kind of a prospect the player is. judging low level ball players based on their stats and the published scouting reports is rather foolish. it's even a problem judging higher level prospects. no amount of stats would have told you that Jason Dubois couldn't recognize or hit a curveball, but the stats and BA sure made it seem like he could be a force at the major league level. it takes a combination of both in my opinion and the guys at BA often talk about their inability to fully cover all minor leaguers because of their lack of staff. Agreed - stats are huge, no doubt, but I think you have to see a guy to have a truly fully informed opinion. I always appreciate the impressions of DJaxx and the other guys in the Minor League forum who have seen our porspects play and can therefore can lend their prospective.

Thanks...strangely they didn't put it on the chicagosports.com site. I read the column this morning - it sounds like complete conjecture by Rogers (shocking, I know). Its such a long shot that I wouldn't even think twice.