RynoRules

Not a terrible choice in light of his slary over the yrs: Let's get into some numbers here guys, not just rattle off names.

Oh my.

Yeah, we know he is big. I dunno what the Brewers are thinking here. they must be desparate. Think they'd take Eyre off our hands? :wink:

I was thinking about Scott Hatteberg recently and how underrated and undervalued he is. That got me thinking of some of the underrated and undervaluied players of the last 20-25 yrs. Mike Stanley is one my faves. He had a career line .270 / .370 / .458, and a career OPS-plus of 117. His best OPS-plus yrs included a couple of 140's, a couple of 130's, and several in the 110-125 range. Moreover, he could play C, OF, 1B, and 3B, and of course DH. All this production and he was making only 175k in 92', topping out at 3.5 mill with the Red Sox in 2000. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/stanlmi02.shtml Let's see some others if you can think of them.

I've seen this argument a few times on this board and I don't get it. What's considered a great season from beginning to end? Is he supposed to have no disaster starts? Heck, everybody has those. IF it's not that extreme....what was wrong with his 2003 (sub 3 ERA before tiring down the stretch as a 22 year old in his first full season as a ML starter) or 2004 (highest ERA in a month was 3.60) or 2005 (6 times w/ 5 or more ERs)? Also, wins? He had a 2.75 ERA in 2003 and only won 16 games, Colon won 18 that year with a 5 ERA. Heck, Zambrano was leading the NL in wins with a 4 ERA a few weeks ago. Cy Young seasons are built on consitency. Sure, everyone has a disaster start now and again, but Carlos has been the equivalent of a streaky hitter this year. Actually he sort of personifies the team as a whole in that respect.

After today I wish to have his children. Dempster's too. Looks like I will be busy.

HELL YES!!! That's the kind of victory that winning teams get. Reminds me of the 03', 89' and 84' teams. GO CUBS!!!!

DuBois couldn't anything at the ML level other than a straight FB. That said, he should have been given a greater chance in 05' b/c the whole team stunk anyway. I like Soto, but I don't see how one balloon yr at the AAA level (no longer a prospect league; its where crappy players go to die these days) equates to him being a better bet than Kendall. That said, I think it would be a better idea to let him go during the offseason. I also don't think it makes sense to compare the Cubs position player prospects to the Brewers or Cards - Ankiel, Braun, and Hart are simply better than anything we have. Pitchers are another matter, and I think the org deserves more credit for its willingness to develop them.

Is the s rumor or a fact? Unfortunately, fact, according to Levine on 1000.

Levine: Trachsel to Cubs for Moore and Cherry. Confirmed. YUCK!!!

Lee looks like baseball players used to look - they have a peak year or two and then their avg years. That was before "enhancements" changed the patterns and the fans' perceptions.

He made very good contact last night on two occassions, but hit both right at the OFers.

I'd much rather take my chances with Hart than Fielder. To me its a no brainer.

Just a bit outside. Not to worry - we'll be in there pen very soon.

Small sample size, but lends credence to the notion that Jones is a violently streaky hitter who can't be relied on over the long haul.

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS. His OPS over his last 30 games is .924. It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l fantastic stuff. a guy posting his last-30-days ops is giving me crap about being selective about what numbers i'm citing. oh man, then i just read that i'm posting numbers in a vacuum...literally the sentence after you post the all-encompassing last-30-days ops. and, of course, i'm taking into consideration that completely unfair and shortsighted stat of his season ops. honestly, that's great. I don't think anyone is advocating that Jacque be elected to the HOF here; in fact most of us are advocating that we capitalize on his production and then peddle him during the offseason. What exectly is wrong with that?

Why do you constantly focus solely on his splits vs RHP? Because generally, that's all he is (and should) be playing against. Moreover, it's really easy to find replacement level right handed CFs who can post reasonable numbers against LHP. But is that fair to those hitters who can also hit LHPs? It's not like LHPs are rare enough to just throw them out of the discussion. There are far fewer lefties than righties overall, no? Plus guys like Beltran, Jones, Hunter, Wells and Damon make a ton more than Jones does. You can't do a thorough analysis IMO without considering salary. But you can without using all pitchers? Makes sense. I am going to assume you were not trying to be smarmy with that comment (though I suspect otherwise) and respond normally. Obviously not, but you can't do it by assuming that there are an equal amount of right and lefthanders. Thus you must first determine how many of those pitchers are lefthanded. I'd guess about 33-40% on the high end. This means that more picthers are right handed, which means that batters face right handed picthers more often. Get where I am going here?

Why do you constantly focus solely on his splits vs RHP? Because generally, that's all he is (and should) be playing against. Moreover, it's really easy to find replacement level right handed CFs who can post reasonable numbers against LHP. But is that fair to those hitters who can also hit LHPs? It's not like LHPs are rare enough to just throw them out of the discussion. There are far fewer lefties than righties overall, no? Plus guys like Beltran, Jones, Hunter, Wells and Damon make a ton more than Jones does. You can't do a thorough analysis IMO without considering salary.

Goony, you can take the fun out of almost anything; do you like ice cream and pizza? :wink: I don't see how I'm taking the fun out of anything here. I just don't buy into the "deserves praise" thing. Praise is a pretty strong word. I'm not going to praise any player who has a hot streak. I'm going to enjoy it, and be happy it happened, but why does it mean the player deserves praise? It's a bit melo-dramatic if you ask me. What matters is what the guy does over a full season, and in the case of free agents, the full, or at least most of, the contract. I didn't praise Alou for what he did in 2004 because it was too little too late in my book, as he crapped the bed in his first free agency year, when he was making what was at the time really big money. And he was, in my opinion, also a bit disappointing in 2003 (especially when compared with what he did before and after being a Cub). If Jones were to somehow significantly outperform my expectations for him, then I'd be all for praising the guy. But the fact remains that as a Cub, Jones has basically been a .280/.330/.455 guy. His overall OPS is weak, especially in OBP, and the SLG hasn't come close to outweighing it. Just having some fun with you. Hence the: :wink:

I really enjoyed the little smirk he had after they lost the lead. It was either a fake smile trying to pretend everything was okay, or him laughing at his own team's floundering. I noticed that also. My wife and I wondered what that was about.

I agree, but I don't think having Uek sing the stretch is same thing as say having Mike Krukow sing the stretch. Uek transcends the booth and is a beloved personality well beyond it, particulalry to people who grew up during the 80's and feel that Major League is one of the three greatest sports movies ever made (like me). Don't boo Uek because he was funny in Major League? Look I know he's a good guy, and he's very fun to listen to, and he's one of the great announcers in the game. But I don't care what great guy is up there...if he's singing the 7th inning stretch and shouting another teams name, he deserves what he gets. He knew what was coming, I promise you that. Booing opposing teams and their representatives is a part of sports. I don't have a problem with it, and I don't think it's representative of a lack of class. I think you missed my point. Uek isn't just "another team's broadcaster". He has far wider appeal than that, but you sort of lumped him in with guys whose names I don't know in FL, TB, Boston, etc. Him singing the seventh inning stretch makes more sense b/c he isn't just a broadcaster. As far as the booing goes, as I posted above, I think Cubs fans are generally known for being good hosts to opposing teams' fans. Booing doesn't have to be vicious; it can be in good fun. Hopefully that was the intent here.

Goony, you can take the fun out of almost anything; do you like ice cream and pizza? :wink:

Bingo. Someone will grab him from us, especially since he has one yr left on his deal at a very reasonable price. EDIT: I also hope he keeps it up so we can win the division and have a shot at the WS.

Exactly. And I appreciate the fact that he seems to be enjoying himself. A happy worker is a more productive worker, in my experience. I also agree with Vance that we should try and deal him during the offseason and upgrade. Finally, I don't understand why some of you find it so hard to admit that he has done a very nice job since the ASB. Its like there's some sort of Anti-Jacque society out there: "The first rule of Jones Club is we never say anything about him that could be perceived as a compliment." :wink: