Gut feeling: Are we headed for a worst-case scenario?

[AramisRamirez]

Now that several trades have been made and Furcal has begun to drag his feet, I have been getting a very uneasy feeling about this offseason. I wonder if Furcal is simply using both us and LA to drive up the price in Atl. I wonder if JH has missed out on all realistic trade opportunities that would truly benefit this team.

 

Like many of you, I am not wild about a deal for Mench and Soriano, and I do not think that Bradley by himself will reverse our fortunes. As I mentioned in the Furcal thread, "I have a bad feeling about this." Jacque Jones bad.

 

Anyone else think this might be the end result?:

 

Perez (2B)

Bradley

Lee

Ramirez

Jacque Jones

Murton

Barret

Cedeno

 

yeah to me this isnt the worst case scenario. adding bradley and jones would be fine by me. here is the worst case scenario in my opinon:

 

SS perez

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF burnitz

C barrett

RF murton

CF patterson

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Now that several trades have been made and Furcal has begun to drag his feet, I have been getting a very uneasy feeling about this offseason. I wonder if Furcal is simply using both us and LA to drive up the price in Atl. I wonder if JH has missed out on all realistic trade opportunities that would truly benefit this team.

 

Like many of you, I am not wild about a deal for Mench and Soriano, and I do not think that Bradley by himself will reverse our fortunes. As I mentioned in the Furcal thread, "I have a bad feeling about this." Jacque Jones bad.

 

Anyone else think this might be the end result?:

 

Perez (2B)

Bradley

Lee

Ramirez

Jacque Jones

Murton

Barret

Cedeno

 

yeah to me this isnt the worst case scenario. adding bradley and jones would be fine by me. here is the worst case scenario in my opinon:

 

SS perez

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF burnitz

C barrett

RF murton

CF patterson

 

that looks like a 79 win team to me. :lol:

[Blueheart05]

Very true. I think I'd be happy as long as Opening Day rolls around and we have decent OBP guys batting 1-2 ahead of Lee and Ramirez. I've lowered my expectations of this winter greatly the last few days.

 

We're probably looking at:

 

- trading Walker for Bradley

- trading Corey and a prospect for Mench

- signing Lofton or trading for Roberts as 4th OF insurance

- signing Bill Mueller to play 2B

- signing another starting pitcher (Weaver, Byrd) knowing Kerry and Maddux are gone after 2006

 

The wild cards here could be expanding the Bradley deal to include Lowe, or making a big deal with Arizona for an OF (Shawn Green or Luis Gonzalez) and Javier Vazquez, or the Giants for Pedro Feliz and Jason Schmidt. The Cubs would then have the option of moving Lowe, Vazquez or Schmidt to Philly for Bobby Abreu, if he his actually being shopped by Pat Gillick for a front-line starter.

 

I am actually a fan of getting Mueller for 2B. But would that be in line with the defensive upgrades Hendry has been wanting?

 

FYI, the Cardinals have offered Mueller a contract already. He'll probably hjump at it because grudz seems to be seeking 3 years elsewhere.

[Roast]

Bump

[CubinNY]

Bump

 

IMO this is not a bad thing. Cedno will be ok. What they have to do is work out a blockbuster for Abreu or some such difference maker in the outfield.

 

It is not over yet.

 

Furcal was not that much of an upgarde over Neifi or Ronny to warrant such a contract.

[RynoRules]

Bump-to-the-second-power.

 

Let the panic begin. Anyone got a pic that conveys a feeling of chaos? (excluding pics of Dusty managing a game :wink: )

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

This is a good thing. Hopefully Pierre is snatched away from Hendry as well and we can get some decent and not overpaid players on this team.

[RynoRules]

I slept on it and yet I feel the same.

 

We are so screwed!

 

Look, I hope that I am wrong. I hope that Jim pulls off the trade of the century and our lineup is:

 

Pierre

Mueller

Abreu

Lee

Ramirez

Murton

Barret

Cedeno

 

But I am not getting my hopes up.

[Roast]

Well, [expletive]. I thought about it last night, and this morning, and I have come to this conclusion:

 

It all comes down to Pie.

 

There are really 3 ways this could go, IMO.

 

1) We keep Pie, and keep him in the minors. He may come up towards the middle of the season. Maybe not. This option means that we will most likely end up with scrubs in the outfield. We would really have to come very close to selling the farm to get the key we need (Dunn, Manny, Abreu) without trading him. This would probably gaurontee us a sub .500 season, imo.

 

2) We could keep him, and play him in Center to start the year. This may hinder his development, it may not. He may turn into Patterson, he may be the next Cabrera. This is a high risk, but potentially high reward, gamble. This option would allow us to focus more money on RF, but the problem still remains that we'd have to sell ALOT of peices to get Abreu/Manny/Dunn without Pie being traded. This one could go either way. We could make out like bandits with Pie turning into cabrera, or we could not.

 

3) We trade Pie as part of a package to get Dunn/Abreu/Manny. This would put us in a position to where either pierre or patterson would most likely be playing center. While this would put us in the hunt for a new center fielder in a year or two, it would probably give us the best chance of winning this year.

[JWCUB]

Well, [expletive]. I thought about it last night, and this morning, and I have come to this conclusion:

 

It all comes down to Pie.

 

There are really 3 ways this could go, IMO.

 

1) We keep Pie, and keep him in the minors. He may come up towards the middle of the season. Maybe not. This option means that we will most likely end up with scrubs in the outfield. We would really have to come very close to selling the farm to get the key we need (Dunn, Manny, Abreu) without trading him. This would probably gaurontee us a sub .500 season, imo.

 

2) We could keep him, and play him in Center to start the year. This may hinder his development, it may not. He may turn into Patterson, he may be the next Cabrera. This is a high risk, but potentially high reward, gamble. This option would allow us to focus more money on RF, but the problem still remains that we'd have to sell ALOT of peices to get Abreu/Manny/Dunn without Pie being traded. This one could go either way. We could make out like bandits with Pie turning into cabrera, or we could not.

 

3) We trade Pie as part of a package to get Dunn/Abreu/Manny. This would put us in a position to where either pierre or patterson would most likely be playing center. While this would put us in the hunt for a new center fielder in a year or two, it would probably give us the best chance of winning this year.

 

Roast, I believe you are right. Your #3 option IMO is the best. At this point, I want to win, and win now. I'm tired of losing. No one knows how good Pie will be. We all think we know how good he "COULD" be, but what did we think of Patterson? We do, however know how good Manny and Abreu are. I do not include Dunn in this because I really believe that if the Reds trade him, it will not be to a NL Central team IMO.

[JeffH]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

[JWCUB]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

 

Can you explain?

[E.J.]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

 

Can you explain?

 

Dunn is still young. Abreu and Ramirez are in their 30's now. I'd still give up Pie for Abreu though. I'm probably one of the few that don't want Manny.

[Roast]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

 

Bobby Abreu:

Career - .303/.411/.512 23HR 95RBI (HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .286/.405/.474 24HR 102RBI

 

Manny Ramirez:

Career - .314/.409/.599 42HR 136RBI (again, HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .292/.388/.594 45HR 144RBI

 

What part of trading for that kind of production would be increadably stupid? I dont care what their contracts look like, we have plenty of money. And yes they are older, but when they produce at that rate, i dont care.

[JWCUB]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

 

Bobby Abreu:

Career - .303/.411/.512 23HR 95RBI (HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .286/.405/.474 24HR 102RBI

 

Manny Ramirez:

Career - .314/.409/.599 42HR 136RBI (again, HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .292/.388/.594 45HR 144RBI

 

What part of trading for that kind of production would be increadably stupid? I dont care what their contracts look like, we have plenty of money. And yes they are older, but when they produce at that rate, i dont care.

 

BUMP BUMP BUMP Roast.

 

Manny and Abreu can hit for both AVG. and power. Not to mention hit a Sac. Fly. :lol:

[Roast]

Personally, I would want them in this order:

 

1. Dunn. He's young, and with guys like Lee and Ramirez surrounding him, I bet his average would creep up a bit. Plus, that OBP and Power are awesome.

 

2. Abreu. Older, but still a STUD.

 

3. Older, Ugly contract, "clubhouse cancer"**, still puts up great numbers.

 

 

**I dont give a rip about "clubhouse cancer". I've said it before, i'll say it again. Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig didnt talk for five years. They did ok. Plus, look where all that chemistry got us last year.

[JWCUB]

Personally, I would want them in this order:

 

1. Dunn. He's young, and with guys like Lee and Ramirez surrounding him, I bet his average would creep up a bit. Plus, that OBP and Power are awesome.

 

2. Abreu. Older, but still a STUD.

 

3. Older, Ugly contract, "clubhouse cancer"**, still puts up great numbers.

 

 

**I dont give a rip about "clubhouse cancer". I've said it before, i'll say it again. Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig didnt talk for five years. They did ok. Plus, look where all that chemistry got us last year.

 

My order:

 

#1 Manny

#2 Abreu

#3 Dunn

[XZero771679666304]

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Adam Dunn would be fine.

 

Trading Felix Pie to acquire Bobby Abreu or Manny Ramirez would be remarkably stupid and Cub-like. Or is that redundant?

 

Bobby Abreu:

Career - .303/.411/.512 23HR 95RBI (HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .286/.405/.474 24HR 102RBI

 

Manny Ramirez:

Career - .314/.409/.599 42HR 136RBI (again, HR and RBI are 162 game avg's)

2005 - .292/.388/.594 45HR 144RBI

 

What part of trading for that kind of production would be increadably stupid? I dont care what their contracts look like, we have plenty of money. And yes they are older, but when they produce at that rate, i dont care.

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

[frostwyrm]

Personally, I would want them in this order:

 

1. Dunn. He's young, and with guys like Lee and Ramirez surrounding him, I bet his average would creep up a bit. Plus, that OBP and Power are awesome.

 

2. Abreu. Older, but still a STUD.

 

3. Older, Ugly contract, "clubhouse cancer"**, still puts up great numbers.

 

 

**I dont give a rip about "clubhouse cancer". I've said it before, i'll say it again. Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig didnt talk for five years. They did ok. Plus, look where all that chemistry got us last year.

 

Gary Sheffield is a cancer I'd love to see in the Cubs clubhouse.

[Roast]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

[JWCUB]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

 

I'd take any of the three, but I think Manny would add a little zest to the team.

[XZero771679666304]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

 

I'd take any of the three, but I think Manny would add a little zest to the team.

 

And 20 million dollars to the payroll.

[JWCUB]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

 

I'd take any of the three, but I think Manny would add a little zest to the team.

 

And 20 million dollars to the payroll.

 

Give or take....depending on what the Sox are willing to eat. I'm sure they would eat some, just not sure how much.

[Roast]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

 

I'd take any of the three, but I think Manny would add a little zest to the team.

 

Forget all those catch words. I dont wan team chemistry. I dont want someone to add "zest" to the team. I want someone to produce. Abreu and Dunn will most likely produce more, and Dunn will produce longer. Which is why I have them above manny.

[XZero771679666304]

 

True, but I'd rather have Dunn, who will have comparable OBP, HR and probably RBI. Dunn is much younger, will be under team control for longer, and a lot cheaper.

 

Oh, I agree. I actually just posted that. But i'd still be all giddy like a school girl for any of the three.

 

I'd take any of the three, but I think Manny would add a little zest to the team.

 

And 20 million dollars to the payroll.

 

Give or take....depending on what the Sox are willing to eat. I'm sure they would eat some, just not sure how much.

 

Either way, Dunn will gove you a similar OPS, is younger, under team control for longer, and much, much cheaper. There really isn't a good reason to throw more prospects at Manny to get the same production for more money over less time.