Marlins trade Castillo to Twins (Complete)

[jmajew]

When I was saying don't judge until after the season, I meant don't judge his strategy and don't go around calling the guy a moran because he isn't doing what you want him to. You never know how well it may work out. I think it is fair to discuss how much he gave up for certain players; a prime example being 3/11 for Eyre. I think he could have gotten him for a bit cheaper. You can judge him on who he gives up in a trade. If we trade Pie and Walker for Bradley (strictly hypothetical) I would expect there to be a healthy debate on whether we gave up too much. But if we end up winning the world series with that move wouldn't it be seen as a good one still?

 

I guess that is my main point. If the Cubs have to overpay just for one Championship would we be mad? I know I wouldn't. I will not be upset with any of his moves if we win the World Series. I'm not criticizing people for having opinions, I just want them to give Hendry a shot. At least wait til he assembles the team we are going to battle with for the entire season to judge his strategy.

 

No, I wouldn't want him to mortgage what could be several trips to the pennant for one World Series. The best team does not always win the World Series. What if he mortgaged the future, and they fell short of winning the World Series that year?

 

The Cubs, as of 2004, were in a position to be good for a long time. I didn't include 2003, since they did play better than anyone would have imagined. We are still waiting for them to be good.

 

I dont' think that is mortgaging the future. I think right now what we need to do is trade away some of our young talent, our high level prospects. This way we can get players who we know will be able to produce at the big league level. Then as as the young core we have on our team now(Lee, Ramirez, Zambrano, Wood, Prior, etc) ages a little bit you trade one or two of them away to get more young talent. That is how the good teams stay competetive for long periods of time. They know when to trade an aging player and when to trade prospects.

 

I hope this makes sense. I am having a hard time trying to explain it.

[BigbadB]

I know exactly what you are saying. But, I was referring to the example of Pie and Walker for Bradley. A trade like this what the Yankees have been doing for the last 5 years. Now, they have hardly anything left in their farm system and they rely completely on one sided trades with plenty of cash to add to the deal and free agency.

 

Interestingly enough, they started their run in the 90's by developing talent from the farm system. Ever since they steered away from that philosophy and leaned towards "buying" a World Series, they don't win anymore.

 

And I love it.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Sorry BBB, but given the Cubs' miserable track record in terms of developing their minor league talent into useable major league talent, I would fully support the Yankee's model at this point and drain the minors as trade currency to get major league-capable help right NOW.

 

All of our highly touted prospects, which many here (yes, including me) love to follow their progress, and almost to a player they've never panned out. I count a grand total of five that made it, and two of those we traded away (Willis and Garland). On the other hand, there have been so many Brooks Kieshnicks, and Ryan Gripps, and David Keltons, and Juan Cruz', and Ruben Quevedos, and Corey Pattersons, etc....

 

Get what you can for the young guys while they still have some perceived value, and shrug your shoulders when occasionally (like with Willis) the guy you move ends up being good. I mean, look at the two zeroes the Yankees are moving to apparently get Juan Pierre. Or Boston's willingness to move supposed uber-prospect Hanley Ramirez to get Beckett and Lowell (though admittedly, Boston sold off Ramirez a year too late to maximize his value).

 

I'll keep Guzman because you'd be selling him low given his injuries and durability issues vis-a-vis his ceiling. And Pawelek is completely off-limits, of course. But there is NO ONE else in the Cubs system I wouldn't trade right NOW to get the big league we need, and yes, I include Hendry pets Rich Hill and Felix Pie among them.

[Laura]

I'll keep Guzman because you'd be selling him low given his injuries and durability issues vis-a-vis his ceiling. And Pawelek is completely off-limits, of course. But there is NO ONE else in the Cubs system I wouldn't trade right NOW to get the big league we need, and yes, I include Hendry pets Rich Hill and Felix Pie among them.

 

Agreed (other than Pawelek isn't off limits to me, but hard to figure anyone giving return on that deal).

 

Either trade the pets or blow up the team.

[USSoccer]

I'll keep Guzman because you'd be selling him low given his injuries and durability issues vis-a-vis his ceiling. And Pawelek is completely off-limits, of course. But there is NO ONE else in the Cubs system I wouldn't trade right NOW to get the big league we need, and yes, I include Hendry pets Rich Hill and Felix Pie among them.

 

Agreed (other than Pawelek isn't off limits to me, but hard to figure anyone giving return on that deal).

 

Either trade the pets or blow up the team.

 

 

In the right deal, at this point I agree with you. If the Cubs won't properly deveop their minor league talent, then you need to spend it like an asset, and not waste it like we did with Cruz, for example.

[BigbadB]

Sorry BBB, but given the Cubs' miserable track record in terms of developing their minor league talent into useable major league talent, I would fully support the Yankee's model at this point and drain the minors as trade currency to get major league-capable help right NOW.

 

All of our highly touted prospects, which many here (yes, including me) love to follow their progress, and almost to a player they've never panned out. I count a grand total of five that made it, and two of those we traded away (Willis and Garland). On the other hand, there have been so many Brooks Kieshnicks, and Ryan Gripps, and David Keltons, and Juan Cruz', and Ruben Quevedos, and Corey Pattersons, etc....

 

Get what you can for the young guys while they still have some perceived value, and shrug your shoulders when occasionally (like with Willis) the guy you move ends up being good. I mean, look at the two zeroes the Yankees are moving to apparently get Juan Pierre. Or Boston's willingness to move supposed uber-prospect Hanley Ramirez to get Beckett and Lowell (though admittedly, Boston sold off Ramirez a year too late to maximize his value).

 

I'll keep Guzman because you'd be selling him low given his injuries and durability issues vis-a-vis his ceiling. And Pawelek is completely off-limits, of course. But there is NO ONE else in the Cubs system I wouldn't trade right NOW to get the big league we need, and yes, I include Hendry pets Rich Hill and Felix Pie among them.

 

You missed my point, Don. No one in our farm is Delmon Young, therefore they are all available in the right deal.

 

The example that was made was Pie and Walker for Bradley. Would you do that trade? I sure wouldn't. Walker for Bradley I'd do. If Bradley was the difference between being a playoff caliber team or a .500 team, then I'd consider adding prospects to Walker to get Bradley, but it wouldn't be Pie. Pie or Hill would be saved for a premium bat, like Abreu or Dunn.

 

The Yankees aren't coughing up Wang for just anybody.

 

I want the Cubs to be good every year, therefore you don't make moves like Walker and Pie for a guy who "might" be such a problem that they have to dump him. Now Bradley is gone and you no longer have that blue chip prospect to use in a big trade.

 

I want the Cubs to trade prospects. I think they blew the opportunity to rebuild the bullpen by trading prospects for bullpen arms that don't cost an arm and a leg like Eyre, Howry and Rusch. I realize you liked the Eyre and Howry deals, and those guys may end up having great back to back years, so I'll leave it at that.

 

There are a ton of teams like Florida that need to stay below their cap. There were most certainly some role players and middle relievers that could have been had for a prospect or two to finish off the rest of the Cubs offseason. Mike McDougal comes to mind. He made league minimum last year.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

[fearthecubs]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

 

I met Andy Sisco at a Peoria Chiefs game (but this was back when he was the visiting team on the Lugnuts), and he refused to sign an autograph for my friend an I. No matter his future MLB stats, he's a jerk. Arrogant, too.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

 

:oops:

[ltb]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

 

I saw this earlier. Awesome, huh?

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

 

Last year, Florida was picked to win the NL East, even during the year many thought Florida was going to take the WC and make some noise in the playoffs. Up until just a few weeks ago, no one new Florida would trade basically every All-Star on their roster. And to further my point, Hoops pointed out yesterday Florida was asking much, much more from NL teams compared to AL teams.

 

No need to make this comparison at all.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Wow. The Star is reporting that the Royals could have had Castillo if they would have given up Andy Sisco--and Allan Baird said NO. Wow. KC offered MacDougal, but Florida wouldn't bite so they went to Minnesota instead.

 

How sick do you guys feel now that Hendry's discard from last year, Andy Sisco, could have netted Luis Castillo?

 

I met Andy Sisco at a Peoria Chiefs game (but this was back when he was the visiting team on the Lugnuts), and he refused to sign an autograph for my friend an I. No matter his future MLB stats, he's a jerk. Arrogant, too.

 

In spring training 2004, I met Sisco and he signed two autographs for me and one for my wife. Sometimes they just have bad days. If one day of not signing an autograph makes someone a jerk, then no one in MLB isn't one.