How would Soriano fit in??

[AramisRamirez]

that ridiculous rumor yesterday got me thinking (the one where we net soriano, furcal, and mench). im a huge todd walker fan, not into trading him really but soriano would be one guy i so it for. throw in a good prospect and that deal should be enough. handing him a $100M deal, as rumored yesterday. was literally laughable. not sure what deal he'd get, but certainly no where near yesterdays rumor.

 

anyways we'd still need speed at the top of the order but bringing in soriano would definitely hand us another solid hitter in the lineup. spending that much on soriano would probably stop us from furcal but juan pierre would still be right there for the taking. so basically what im thinking about is adding soriano and pierre instead of furcal and giles. we're going to pony up some prospecs for pierre, which is fine as long as its not our best best prospects/.

 

soriano is somewhat streaky but he's definitely capable of playing at a high level. anyways here would be the 2006 cubbies after these two additions: this situation would field one of the few times id be content bringing back burnitz (as an 8th hole hitter). im not a fan of burnitz but as an 8th hole hitter i could deal.

 

OF pierre

2B soriano

1B lee

3B ramirez

C barrett

OF murton

SS cedeno

OF burnitz

 

what do you guys think?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I think we need consistent OBP in front of Lee and Ramirez. Pierre and Soriano might be the two worst options in that respect. If we had Soriano, I'd bat him behind Ramirez to take advantage of his power. Soriano's defense is horrible and I don't see Hendry pursuing him b/c of that. JH is on a big infield defense kick.

 

Pierre is overrated, IMO. He gets a ton of triples (top 5 in MLB i believe) but very few doubles. From what I've seen of him, he rarely gets the ball out of the infield, or just finds a hole. Rarely does he hit a line drive into the gap or down the line, which is what he should be doing to take full advantage of his speed. Slap hitters are annoying like that.

[AAApittsburgh]

Honestly, that top of the order makes me want to vomit. Especially when you consider the prospects you have to give up for them and the amount of money Soriano makes. Pierre and Soriano are quite possibly the 2 most overrated players in the game. And no more Burnitz plz.

[Fred Hornkohl]

 

anyways we'd still need speed at the top of the order but bringing in soriano would definitely hand us another solid hitter in the lineup.

 

 

soriano is somewhat streaky but he's definitely capable of playing at a high level.

 

 

what do you guys think?

 

The 2005 CUBS lead the league in BA & SLG, the were 11th in OBP and 9th in Runs scored. A player like Soriano, who has some pop and refuses to take a walk, doesn't mitigate this problem, he adds to it. Factor in his less than average defense, and you've got a recipe for disaster. Just say no !!!

 

 Year Ag  Tm Lg   G   AB    R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO    BA   OBP   SLG 
1999 23 NYY AL   9    8    2    1   0  0   1    1   0  1   0   3  .125  .125  .500
2000 24 NYY AL  22   50    5    9   3  0   2    3   2  0   1  15  .180  .196  .360
2001 25 NYY AL 158  574   77  154  34  3  18   73  43 14  29 125  .268  .304  .432 
2002 26 NYY AL 156  696  128  209  51  2  39  102  41 13  23 157  .300  .332  .547 
2003 27 NYY AL 156  682  114  198  36  5  38   91  35  8  38 130  .290  .338  .525 
2004 28 TEX AL 145  608   77  170  32  4  28   91  18  5  33 121  .280  .324  .484  
2005 29 TEX AL 156  637  102  171  43  2  36  104  30  2  33 125  .268  .309  .512  

7 Seasons      802 3255  505  912 199 16 162  465 169 43 157 676  .280  .320  .500 
162 Game Avg        657  102  184  40  3  33   94  34  9  32 137  .280  .320  .500  

[biittner77]

The priorities for a #2 hitter in order of importance:

 

OBP

contact

1-3, score from 1st on XBH speed

Power

stolen bases

BA

 

I really can't see any one area besides power where Soriano is a better fit than Walker, especially considering that Walker bats LH. Neither is a plus defender. Soriano has more speed but makes less contact.

[RynoRules]

I think that I posted this in the rumor thread, but to me, unless we get Pierre and Furcal in addition to Soriano, I don't want him. Having Furcal and Pierre puts Soriano lower in the order (5th or 6th), where I believe he is a better fit. Thus, I am not opposed to him under certain circumstances.

[Drew Doughty]

I don't mind Soriano if both of these things were true:

 

A) Dusty Baker wasn't our manager

B) We had two decent to good OBP guys at the top of the order

 

Those two things don't exactly work together. If we get Soriano and Pierre or Soriano and Furcal, there's no way Dusty doesn't bat him second, unfortunately.

[rawaction]

Soriano would be a welcome addition to the lineup in the 6th hole. I'd gladly take him in that role. If he's hitting at the top of the order, not so much. If the Cubs did get Furcal, trade for Pierre, and got a LH bat for the middle of the order, Soriano would make a potentially good lineup, great.

 

Pierre

Furcal

Lee

Floyd

Ramirez

Soriano

Murton

Barrett

[Drew Doughty]

I really don't see the Mets trading Floyd. Abreu or Dunn = mmm mmm good

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

While Soriano isn't a horrible option, at the salary he'll get, there's many other options I'd like better.

 

I really don't see Soriano appreciably better than Walker, and considering Walker is only due 2.5 million, I wouldn't move Walker if the upgrade is Sori.

 

I'd take Castillo over Walker, and maybe Jeff Kent. Marcus Giles over Walker, I'd do in a heartbeat.

 

I can't think of too many others I'd trade Walker for unless I'm upgrading somewhere else and using Cedeno at 2b.

[Diffusion]

When we already have Walker, why? Soriano is, at best, a marginally better all-round second baseman, but his skillset is far less suited to what ought to be the Cubs' needs: on-base percentage and up the middle defence. Furthermore, he'll command a far higher salary than Walker, and his trade value to the Rangers has no relation to his actual value to Cubs, in large part thanks to the reputation he created for himself in New York, with the assistance of the Yankee media machine. As such, if any upgrade at all exists, and that's debatable, the cost in terms of salary and players is almost guaranteed to be disproportionate, and, by definition, not worth paying. We'd be considerably better off upgrading at positions where more pressing needs exist, investing in players that represent bigger upgrades yet at the same time cost less resources. And believe me that's possible: you put together a package of Williams, Patterson, Cedeno, Aardsma, and two other minor leaguers, and that'll get you a whole lot further in the outfield than the same package (substituting Patterson for Walker) will get you at second base.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

[Diffusion]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

 

I'm not a fan at all of infering anything from road numbers, particularly not just one year's worth. The vast majority of players are most comfortable at home (all of MLB last year hit .269/.337/.428 at home last year, against .261/.324/.410 on the road), and year to year variations in home/road splits can be enormous.

 

For instance, Derek Jeter hit just .265/.333/.380 on the road last year (against .354/.444/.522 at home) and Rafael Furcal hit just .246/.311/.346 (against .321/.383/.508). I don't think anyone though would try and infer that if you took those players and put them in a neutral home ballpark for a year, that's what they'd hit, largely because they all play in home ballparks no better than neutral as it is.

 

Now obviously there's no doubt that Soriano's numbers, as well as the numbers of every Texas Ranger, are somewhat inflated by playing in Ameriquest Field, but there's no need to try and bring Corey Patterson into things. After all, Corey hit just .192/.234/.289 on the road last year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

 

I'm not a fan at all of infering anything from road numbers, particularly not just one year's worth. The vast majority of players are most comfortable at home (all of MLB last year hit .269/.337/.428 at home last year, against .261/.324/.410 on the road), and year to year variations in home/road splits can be enormous.

 

For instance, Derek Jeter hit just .265/.333/.380 on the road last year (against .354/.444/.522 at home) and Rafael Furcal hit just .246/.311/.346 (against .321/.383/.508). I don't think anyone though would try and infer that if you took those players and put them in a neutral home ballpark for a year, that's what they'd hit, largely because they all play in home ballparks no better than neutral as it is.

 

Now obviously there's no doubt that Soriano's numbers, as well as the numbers of every Texas Ranger, are somewhat inflated by playing in Ameriquest Field, but there's no need to try and bring Corey Patterson into things. After all, Corey hit just .192/.234/.289 on the road last year.

 

I understand that players can be more comfortable and generally perform better at home, but when the disparity is as large as Soriano's(almost 400 points in OPS) I think it's worth pointing out and being very cautious towards. Patterson was just a benchmark to show how bad that is.

[Diffusion]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

 

I'm not a fan at all of infering anything from road numbers, particularly not just one year's worth. The vast majority of players are most comfortable at home (all of MLB last year hit .269/.337/.428 at home last year, against .261/.324/.410 on the road), and year to year variations in home/road splits can be enormous.

 

For instance, Derek Jeter hit just .265/.333/.380 on the road last year (against .354/.444/.522 at home) and Rafael Furcal hit just .246/.311/.346 (against .321/.383/.508). I don't think anyone though would try and infer that if you took those players and put them in a neutral home ballpark for a year, that's what they'd hit, largely because they all play in home ballparks no better than neutral as it is.

 

Now obviously there's no doubt that Soriano's numbers, as well as the numbers of every Texas Ranger, are somewhat inflated by playing in Ameriquest Field, but there's no need to try and bring Corey Patterson into things. After all, Corey hit just .192/.234/.289 on the road last year.

 

I understand that players can be more comfortable and generally perform better at home, but when the disparity is as large as Soriano's(almost 400 points in OPS) I think it's worth pointing out and being very cautious towards. Patterson was just a benchmark to show how bad that is.

 

So by pointing it out you were not trying to infer that the difference was primarily attributable to Ameriquest Field? Pardon me if, knowing you, I find that slightly hard to believe.

 

We know with reasonable certainty that Soriano can hit without the assistance of an extreme hitter's ballpark to call home because he did so for two years while playing for the Yankees.

[NorthsideAvenger]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3993

 

As you can tell, since his breakout 2002 yr his BA, OBP, SLG, OPS has all turn south. His power numbers are still there, and he can still run, BUT ONLY if/when he got on.

 

I am not in favor of getting Soriano at any cost. He is simply Corey +too much money. No thank you.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

 

I'm not a fan at all of infering anything from road numbers, particularly not just one year's worth. The vast majority of players are most comfortable at home (all of MLB last year hit .269/.337/.428 at home last year, against .261/.324/.410 on the road), and year to year variations in home/road splits can be enormous.

 

For instance, Derek Jeter hit just .265/.333/.380 on the road last year (against .354/.444/.522 at home) and Rafael Furcal hit just .246/.311/.346 (against .321/.383/.508). I don't think anyone though would try and infer that if you took those players and put them in a neutral home ballpark for a year, that's what they'd hit, largely because they all play in home ballparks no better than neutral as it is.

 

Now obviously there's no doubt that Soriano's numbers, as well as the numbers of every Texas Ranger, are somewhat inflated by playing in Ameriquest Field, but there's no need to try and bring Corey Patterson into things. After all, Corey hit just .192/.234/.289 on the road last year.

 

I understand that players can be more comfortable and generally perform better at home, but when the disparity is as large as Soriano's(almost 400 points in OPS) I think it's worth pointing out and being very cautious towards. Patterson was just a benchmark to show how bad that is.

 

So by pointing it out you were not trying to infer that the difference was primarily attributable to Ameriquest Field? Pardon me if, knowing you, I find that slightly hard to believe.

 

We know with reasonable certainty that Soriano can hit without the assistance of an extreme hitter's ballpark to call home because he did so for two years while playing for the Yankees.

 

I'm not saying the full 400 point difference is Ameriquest, and that's part of the point. I'd like to figure out what else it could be, whether there's something in the water in Arlington or the ballpark is so great that it's masking a crappy season, or if Mark Buehrle was right after all. It has been proven that Soriano can hit, but alarming splits like this may be the effect of some deterioration of those skills.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano away from Arlington last year: .224/.265/.374/.639

Patterson overall last year: .215/.254/.348/.602

 

I'm not a fan at all of infering anything from road numbers, particularly not just one year's worth. The vast majority of players are most comfortable at home (all of MLB last year hit .269/.337/.428 at home last year, against .261/.324/.410 on the road), and year to year variations in home/road splits can be enormous.

 

For instance, Derek Jeter hit just .265/.333/.380 on the road last year (against .354/.444/.522 at home) and Rafael Furcal hit just .246/.311/.346 (against .321/.383/.508). I don't think anyone though would try and infer that if you took those players and put them in a neutral home ballpark for a year, that's what they'd hit, largely because they all play in home ballparks no better than neutral as it is.

 

Now obviously there's no doubt that Soriano's numbers, as well as the numbers of every Texas Ranger, are somewhat inflated by playing in Ameriquest Field, but there's no need to try and bring Corey Patterson into things. After all, Corey hit just .192/.234/.289 on the road last year.

 

I understand that players can be more comfortable and generally perform better at home, but when the disparity is as large as Soriano's(almost 400 points in OPS) I think it's worth pointing out and being very cautious towards. Patterson was just a benchmark to show how bad that is.

 

So by pointing it out you were not trying to infer that the difference was primarily attributable to Ameriquest Field? Pardon me if, knowing you, I find that slightly hard to believe.

 

We know with reasonable certainty that Soriano can hit without the assistance of an extreme hitter's ballpark to call home because he did so for two years while playing for the Yankees.

 

I'm not saying the full 400 point difference is Ameriquest, and that's part of the point. I'd like to figure out what else it could be, whether there's something in the water in Arlington or the ballpark is so great that it's masking a crappy season, or if Mark Buehrle was right after all. It has been proven that Soriano can hit, but alarming splits like this may be the effect of some deterioration of those skills.

[AramisRamirez]

hmmm interesting feedback. some honestly brutal, but i wouldnt want it any other way. hey if anybody has earned the right to be jaded, its cubs fans. i do agree that soriano would be best in the 6th hole and he's not ideal at the top of the order.

 

todd walker is a high OBP guy something we could use in front of lee and aramis. but to me if we coulld soriano i would maybe look into adding kenny lofton or somebody with speed. anyways its food for thought. so many possible scenarios this summer its tough to know whats going to go down.

 

in my opinion i dont think we'll nab anybody we talk about (furcal, giles, pierre, mench, soriano) i just dont think it would happen because the Trib is down with 3-year deals only. i think we could be looking at this lineup:

 

SS cedeno

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF burnitz

C barrett

LF murton

CF patterson (pie call-up 2 months into the season)

 

sweet. burnitz representing the 5th hole again with his mighty .268 BA.

[Drew Doughty]

A poor BA in the 5 hole isn't a problem, it's his awful everything else that's the problem.

 

I actually do think we'll get Pierre, but not Soriano. We still might get Mench.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

hmmm interesting feedback. some honestly brutal, but i wouldnt want it any other way. hey if anybody has earned the right to be jaded, its cubs fans. i do agree that soriano would be best in the 6th hole and he's not ideal at the top of the order.

 

todd walker is a high OBP guy something we could use in front of lee and aramis. but to me if we coulld soriano i would maybe look into adding kenny lofton or somebody with speed. anyways its food for thought. so many possible scenarios this summer its tough to know whats going to go down.

 

in my opinion i dont think we'll nab anybody we talk about (furcal, giles, pierre, mench, soriano) i just dont think it would happen because the Trib is down with 3-year deals only. i think we could be looking at this lineup:

 

SS cedeno

2B walker

1B lee

3B ramirez

RF burnitz

C barrett

LF murton

CF patterson (pie call-up 2 months into the season)

 

sweet. burnitz representing the 5th hole again with his mighty .268 BA.

 

I don't think there's any way we start 2006 with that line-up. We'll make some moves. I'm not sure we'll make the right one, but we won't begin 2006 with the same line-up we ended 2005 with.

[CubfaninCA]

Dusty-proof the lineup by getting a 1 and 2 hitter and Soriano could fit in nicely as a 5 or 6 hitter. The Cubs still need a power hitter in the middle of the order and I don't want the 5 or 6 hitter taking a bunch of walks anyway.