Phil Rogers' Latest

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sorry but if you believe Pierre is a better player or defender than Damon, we'll never see eye-to-eye.

 

Secondly what the hell are you even talking about, stockholders? We're talking about baseball here. No ones mentioning blank checks or stock options or my 401k, jeez. The Cubs have money, they should spend it. Period. Goes no deeper than that.

 

You mentioned the Cubs having not won it in a century...that kind of irresponsibility is a very big reason why they haven't.

 

Yea, you're right pal. Stuff like trading Greg Maddux had nothing to do with it. Blame the accountants, off with their heads!

 

Greg Maddux was never traded away.

[fearthecubs]

Dude you're like a freakin' vulture over my posts. I couldn't even correct my typo in time before you dropped from the skies to discredit me.

[Wheelimus]

...wasn't released either. He left as a free agent.

 

And yeah, in retrospect, not topping Atlanta was probably a bad choice :lol:

[RynoRules]

Our budget isn't infinite. Overpaying in one area means we can't acquire talent in another area. For example, overspending in the bullpen when we have cheap alternatives lessens the amount we have to spend on SS, OF, and another starter. There's usually a fairly sizable drop in talent for outfielders for a couple million a season.

 

We're the Cubs not the Royals.

 

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

[Southpaw191679666239]

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

 

Because if it was accounting, he would know better.

[fearthecubs]

Our budget isn't infinite. Overpaying in one area means we can't acquire talent in another area. For example, overspending in the bullpen when we have cheap alternatives lessens the amount we have to spend on SS, OF, and another starter. There's usually a fairly sizable drop in talent for outfielders for a couple million a season.

 

We're the Cubs not the Royals.

 

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

 

Thanks - sometimes I think the goal here is to discredit other posters to move up some invisible food chain instead of talking Cubs baseball.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Dude you're like a freakin' vulture over my posts. I couldn't even correct my typo in time before you dropped from the skies to discredit me.

 

Lucky timing is all. Correcting something isn't trying to discredit you. If I wanted to attack the argument I would've added to the correction.

[Fred Hornkohl]

...wasn't released either. He left as a free agent.

 

And yeah, in retrospect, not topping Atlanta was probably a bad choice :lol:

 

If memory serves, both the CUBS and the Yankees offered Maddux more money than Atlanta did. In any case, it was all about Larry Himes and a lack of respect. It wasn't about the money.

[Jehrico]

...wasn't released either. He left as a free agent.

 

And yeah, in retrospect, not topping Atlanta was probably a bad choice :lol:

 

If memory serves, both the CUBS and the Yankees offered Maddux more money than Atlanta did. In any case, it was all about Larry Himes and a lack of respect. It wasn't about the money.

 

I recall that very well. The Cubs management at the time acted like a complete bunch of jerks towards Maddux. That's why he left. He actually called to accept the last Cubs offer, but they told him it wasn't on the table anymore, and they let him walk. Not giving him 5 years for $25 that saw him earn another 3 Cy Youngs because of him not recognizing his "position" in the bargaining process was also pretty irresponsible. It wasn't a disagreement about money.

[RockTheIvy]

Our budget isn't infinite. Overpaying in one area means we can't acquire talent in another area. For example, overspending in the bullpen when we have cheap alternatives lessens the amount we have to spend on SS, OF, and another starter. There's usually a fairly sizable drop in talent for outfielders for a couple million a season.

 

We're the Cubs not the Royals.

 

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

 

Thanks - sometimes I think the goal here is to discredit other posters to move up some invisible food chain instead of talking Cubs baseball.

 

Things have been getting a little dicey around here lately, havent they?

[mg420]

...wasn't released either. He left as a free agent.

 

And yeah, in retrospect, not topping Atlanta was probably a bad choice :lol:

 

If memory serves, both the CUBS and the Yankees offered Maddux more money than Atlanta did. In any case, it was all about Larry Himes and a lack of respect. It wasn't about the money.

 

I recall that very well. The Cubs management at the time acted like a complete bunch of jerks towards Maddux. That's why he left. He actually called to accept the last Cubs offer, but they told him it wasn't on the table anymore, and they let him walk. Not giving him 5 years for $25 that saw him earn another 3 Cy Youngs because of him not recognizing his "position" in the bargaining process was also pretty irresponsible. It wasn't a disagreement about money.

 

we can thank the wonderful larry himes for this. but he did get the cubs sosa from the sox so i guess that makes up for chasing one of the best pitchers in history away from the cubs. good thing they signed guzman to fill greg's shoes.

[Diffusion]

Just to be clear on this, Johnny Damon is comfortably a better defensive outfielder than Juan Pierre. Damon is obviously the slower of the two, but he more than makes up for that by reading the ball off the bat and in the air considerably better, and so gets bigger jumps, takes better routes and all in all has better range, which is by far the biggest factor in any evaluation of a centre fielder. The arm, a secondary consideration, is a relatively minor black mark against both of them. On the whole, Johnny Damon is above-average defensively, Juan Pierre slightly below, and Pierre's the one whose defensive game is most likely to completely collapse, since any injury that impeded his running speed would rob him of the only current means he has of not embarrassing himself out there.

 

Quite honestly, I'm not sure what is more remarkable: that Pierre, for someone so fast, is such a poor defender; or that he's still widely assumed to be a good defender despite years of evidence to the contrary. The sooner the idea that speed and athleticism is all it takes to play defence is disspelled, the better. It's a pity that most a lot of examples of good defence just aren't as eyecatching as Eric Byrnes getting a God-awful jump, taking the worst route possible, roll cameras, and then making a pretty cool diving catch.

[RynoRules]

Our budget isn't infinite. Overpaying in one area means we can't acquire talent in another area. For example, overspending in the bullpen when we have cheap alternatives lessens the amount we have to spend on SS, OF, and another starter. There's usually a fairly sizable drop in talent for outfielders for a couple million a season.

 

We're the Cubs not the Royals.

 

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

 

Thanks - sometimes I think the goal here is to discredit other posters to move up some invisible food chain instead of talking Cubs baseball.

 

Things have been getting a little dicey around here lately, havent they?

 

Noticeably.

[JC]

How in the world can anyone advocate for overpayment of just any player? Budgetary concerns are very real. Implications on future budgets, financial flexibility in-season, and blocking future, cheaper talent are all facets that must be considered when toying with the idea of "overpayment".

 

To simply throw caution to the wind and ignore the implications of overpayment of players is ridiculous.

 

EDIT: I edited the first sentence because it did not convey what I was trying to say originally.

Edited November 26, 2005 by JC

[NewUserName]

Thank you diffusion. I have heard Pierres defence compared to Lonnie Smith. Fast doesnt make you a good center fielder. Watching Pierre go after a ball is hilarious. If it wasnt for speed he would be awful. With his speed to correct his mistakes he is just bad

[fearthecubs]

Thank you diffusion. I have heard Pierres defence compared to Lonnie Smith. Fast doesnt make you a good center fielder. Watching Pierre go after a ball is hilarious. If it wasnt for speed he would be awful. With his speed to correct his mistakes he is just bad

 

I agree with Diff too, it's what I was trying to say less eloquently than he did. :lol:

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Our budget isn't infinite. Overpaying in one area means we can't acquire talent in another area. For example, overspending in the bullpen when we have cheap alternatives lessens the amount we have to spend on SS, OF, and another starter. There's usually a fairly sizable drop in talent for outfielders for a couple million a season.

 

We're the Cubs not the Royals.

 

A budget is a budget. What do you have a degree in? (if you don't mind my asking)

 

Knock that off. Who cares what his degree is in.

 

Thanks - sometimes I think the goal here is to discredit other posters to move up some invisible food chain instead of talking Cubs baseball.

 

Things have been getting a little dicey around here lately, havent they?

 

Noticeably.

 

Well, I did say "if you don't mind my asking" didn't I?

 

And Mr. fearthecubs, if you are going to feel "discredited" by my asking you that question, why did you answer it?

 

I find it hard to believe that someone with a degree in international business is so dismissive of economic concerns and insight into the Cubs organization. I just find it curious, that's all. I think you're being more emotional than rational in analyzing this team's transactions.

[rawaction]

Didn't know which thread to put this in ~ there are quite a few.

 

The Chicago Tribune's Phil Rogers believes the Marlins will wait until after Johnny Damon signs to trade Juan Pierre.

He also says the White Sox have a better chance to get him than the Cubs because GM Jim Hendry won't part with Felix Pie, Matt Murton or Rich Hill. The White Sox no longer have Aaron Rowand to give up to get Pierre, but they have young outfielders they can afford to part with. Nov. 26 - 2:05 pm et

Source: Chicago Tribune

 

I like this news. And it's not like I don't want Pierre by any means. I think he would be an obvious upgrade, I just don't want to give up 3 players (including Pinto) for him. If Florida is gonna wait, or trade him to the Sox and Damon is off the board, hopefully Hendry will then go after Milton Bradley. The only way I see Bradley as a Cub is if every other plan falls through, and LA releases him.

[RockTheIvy]

Phil Rogers is a dooofus.

[Jehrico]

Damon's defense has been in a slide for several years now. His Zone Rating in 2001 was .935, and it has declined since, coming in at .910, .906, .879, and .874. That's a trend that can be expected to continue. Pierre, historically, isn't as good. However, he posted a .884 last year. The year before that, he was hobbled by leg problems (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) that resulted in a .848. His ZR went up each year at Colorado, took a hit when he moved to ProPlayer stadium, and had he had a normal '04, would have progressed while with the Marlins. His numbers seem to be improving, while Damon's have gotten steadily worse. He passed Damon last year, and I expect the gap to widen. My belief that Pierre's a better CFer extends beyond the ridiculous notion that he is "fast and athletic," but rather, it's based on Damon's precipitous decline in the outfield. If you follow trends, Damon's numbers suggest he's going to be a scary-bad outfielder in the very near future.

[Jehrico]

Didn't know which thread to put this in ~ there are quite a few.

 

The Chicago Tribune's Phil Rogers believes the Marlins will wait until after Johnny Damon signs to trade Juan Pierre.

He also says the White Sox have a better chance to get him than the Cubs because GM Jim Hendry won't part with Felix Pie, Matt Murton or Rich Hill. The White Sox no longer have Aaron Rowand to give up to get Pierre, but they have young outfielders they can afford to part with. Nov. 26 - 2:05 pm et

Source: Chicago Tribune

 

I like this news. And it's not like I don't want Pierre by any means. I think he would be an obvious upgrade, I just don't want to give up 3 players (including Pinto) for him. If Florida is gonna wait, or trade him to the Sox and Damon is off the board, hopefully Hendry will then go after Milton Bradley. The only way I see Bradley as a Cub is if every other plan falls through, and LA releases him.

 

I agree, but the only problem with that though is that Bradley will probably get picked up by someone else before that happens though.

[fearthecubs]

 

I find it hard to believe that someone with a degree in international business is so dismissive of economic concerns and insight into the Cubs organization. I just find it curious, that's all. I think you're being more emotional than rational in analyzing this team's transactions.

 

Pal, I have 400 posts on a message board, that's what you know of me as a person. Leave it alone.

Edited November 26, 2005 by fearthecubs

[JC]

 

I find it hard to believe that someone with a degree in international business is so dismissive of economic concerns and insight into the Cubs organization. I just find it curious, that's all. I think you're being more emotional than rational in analyzing this team's transactions.

 

Pal, I have 400 posts on a message board, that's what you know of me. Leave it alone.

 

Exactly the reason I'd guess he asked more information about you.

[rawaction]

Didn't know which thread to put this in ~ there are quite a few.

 

The Chicago Tribune's Phil Rogers believes the Marlins will wait until after Johnny Damon signs to trade Juan Pierre.

He also says the White Sox have a better chance to get him than the Cubs because GM Jim Hendry won't part with Felix Pie, Matt Murton or Rich Hill. The White Sox no longer have Aaron Rowand to give up to get Pierre, but they have young outfielders they can afford to part with. Nov. 26 - 2:05 pm et

Source: Chicago Tribune

 

I like this news. And it's not like I don't want Pierre by any means. I think he would be an obvious upgrade, I just don't want to give up 3 players (including Pinto) for him. If Florida is gonna wait, or trade him to the Sox and Damon is off the board, hopefully Hendry will then go after Milton Bradley. The only way I see Bradley as a Cub is if every other plan falls through, and LA releases him.

 

I agree, but the only problem with that though is that Bradley will probably get picked up by someone else before that happens though.

 

I don't know. If he's available for nothing as has been suggested, then why hasn't anyone traded for him already? I think the Dodgers will non-tender Bradley, making him a free agent. Hopefully, the Yanks have a CF in place by then. I don't know what other teams would go after him that are in a better situation than the Cubs (i.e. close to winning, allow him to play CF).

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

 

I find it hard to believe that someone with a degree in international business is so dismissive of economic concerns and insight into the Cubs organization. I just find it curious, that's all. I think you're being more emotional than rational in analyzing this team's transactions.

 

Pal, I have 400 posts on a message board, that's what you know of me. Leave it alone.

 

I can't comment on your words? Stellar. I won't respond to your posts any more if that will make you less sensitive to perceived slights from some anonymous poster who you only know from a few hundred posts on a message board.