Grudz wants a three year deal?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Neifi is a useful bench player. I don't think NSBB has a problem with Neifi, just how Dusty uses him.

 

You're exactly right. Neifi is a quality player and honestly, I have absolutely no problem giving him 2.5M - I said about a million times in other threads - who else is there to sign if not Neifi, I didnt get ONE reply. Hm, maybe instead of 2/5 for Neifi we should get Graf for 3/9? that makes more sense?

 

Neifi's brutal. It's easier to count players we wouldn't rather have. First and foremost though, we don't need a backup middle infielder with Cedeno and Fontenot both ready. But if for some reason we HAVE to start Cedeno, D'Angelo Jimenez was available at last check, and is roughly infinitely better than Neifi.

[fearthecubs]

Neifi is a useful bench player. I don't think NSBB has a problem with Neifi, just how Dusty uses him.

 

You're exactly right. Neifi is a quality player and honestly, I have absolutely no problem giving him 2.5M - I said about a million times in other threads - who else is there to sign if not Neifi, I didnt get ONE reply. Hm, maybe instead of 2/5 for Neifi we should get Graf for 3/9? that makes more sense?

 

Neifi's brutal. It's easier to count players we wouldn't rather have. First and foremost though, we don't need a backup middle infielder with Cedeno and Fontenot both ready. But if for some reason we HAVE to start Cedeno, D'Angelo Jimenez was available at last check, and is roughly infinitely better than Neifi.

 

Fontenot's D isn't nearly as good, he's not a veteran off the bench, and Jiminez was let go due to awful personal behavior.

[fearthecubs]

It could be worse.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5111086_7_2.jpg

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Neifi is a useful bench player. I don't think NSBB has a problem with Neifi, just how Dusty uses him.

 

You're exactly right. Neifi is a quality player and honestly, I have absolutely no problem giving him 2.5M - I said about a million times in other threads - who else is there to sign if not Neifi, I didnt get ONE reply. Hm, maybe instead of 2/5 for Neifi we should get Graf for 3/9? that makes more sense?

 

Neifi's brutal. It's easier to count players we wouldn't rather have. First and foremost though, we don't need a backup middle infielder with Cedeno and Fontenot both ready. But if for some reason we HAVE to start Cedeno, D'Angelo Jimenez was available at last check, and is roughly infinitely better than Neifi.

 

Fontenot's D isn't nearly as good, he's not a veteran off the bench, and Jiminez was let go due to awful personal behavior.

 

Fontenot's O is also much better than Neifi, and I could care less if the player on the bench is young, old, veteran, choirboy, jerk, or unborn fetus as long as they produce.

[fearthecubs]

Neifi is a useful bench player. I don't think NSBB has a problem with Neifi, just how Dusty uses him.

 

You're exactly right. Neifi is a quality player and honestly, I have absolutely no problem giving him 2.5M - I said about a million times in other threads - who else is there to sign if not Neifi, I didnt get ONE reply. Hm, maybe instead of 2/5 for Neifi we should get Graf for 3/9? that makes more sense?

 

Neifi's brutal. It's easier to count players we wouldn't rather have. First and foremost though, we don't need a backup middle infielder with Cedeno and Fontenot both ready. But if for some reason we HAVE to start Cedeno, D'Angelo Jimenez was available at last check, and is roughly infinitely better than Neifi.

 

Fontenot's D isn't nearly as good, he's not a veteran off the bench, and Jiminez was let go due to awful personal behavior.

 

Fontenot's O is also much better than Neifi, and I could care less if the player on the bench is young, old, veteran, choirboy, jerk, or unborn fetus as long as they produce.

 

You should care. This is the same argument I got into over Podsednik. It's not just numbers people. Haven't you noticed how many mound visits Neifi orchestrates, his jovial personality in the clubhouse - this stuff matters if you've ever played organized sports. It's hard to stay "up" all the time, and Neifi can help people with that. He plays solid D, makes contact. Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

 

Unfortunately, he's very very bad at it.

[Drew Doughty]

Macias wants to help the team win. Remlinger wants to help the team win. That doesn't make them better than anyone else.

[fearthecubs]

Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

 

Unfortunately, he's very very bad at it.

 

You're just missing the point entirely. What makes you think if you were a coach and I was a FA, I would in any way want to play for you? You obviously as a coach wouldn't hold any loyalty to players, and its questionable whether your commitment is winning or sticking to your SABR for right or wrong in order to possibly come out in the end looking like a genius.

[fearthecubs]

Macias wants to help the team win. Remlinger wants to help the team win. That doesn't make them better than anyone else.

 

Not to force an argument but honestly, Neifi puts forth about 100x the effort as Old Man Rem did.

[Drew Doughty]

I'll hold loyalties to players that actually DO help me win the game.

[fearthecubs]

Anyway, Grudz is crazy looking for a three year deal. He might get a higher dollar amount than usual, but three years is pushing it. I'd rather have Graf than Grudz anyway.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

 

Unfortunately, he's very very bad at it.

 

You're just missing the point entirely. What makes you think if you were a coach and I was a FA, I would in any way want to play for you? You obviously as a coach wouldn't hold any loyalty to players, and its questionable whether your commitment is winning or sticking to your SABR for right or wrong in order to possibly come out in the end looking like a genius.

 

No, I understand the point, and I think you're dead wrong. How do we know that everytime Neifi goes to the mound, the pitcher just wants him to get away, half the pitchers I've ever played with didn't want anyone to conference with them. Same thing in the dugout/clubhouse. Someone who is a happy guy can be perceived as annoying as they are uplifting. Again, from my own experience, and in my day I was the one trying to be the positive teammate. It's not ALL about the numbers, but when someone is as lacking as Perez, all the platitudes about him making contact and being a nice guy don't change the fact that he's horrible, and terribly undeserving of 2 years and 5 million.

 

Now, for your hypothetical on free agency. Neifi played pretty poorly last year, so if anything he should be down my "loyalty" list. But there's what, 1 in 50 guys who won't bolt the "loyal" club for more cash when their time comes. That's what free agency is about. Money. It may sound nice to say that we're being scumbags to treat Neifi that way, but it's not like he performed amazingly and we kicked him to the curb, or we reneged on a promise. He was bad, we should've gotten rid of him, that's how the market works.

 

And finally, it's not trying to make myself look smart, it's about building the baseball team that's most likely to win you games. SABR does NOT = Stats necessarily. It's all about finding the best way to evaluate players/teams. And signing Neifi Perez to a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, especially when you have Dusty Baker managing your team, is a very poor decision if you are trying to build a team that will win you the most games.

[fearthecubs]

 

No, I understand the point, and I think you're dead wrong. How do we know that everytime Neifi goes to the mound, the pitcher just wants him to get away, half the pitchers I've ever played with didn't want anyone to conference with them. Same thing in the dugout/clubhouse. Someone who is a happy guy can be perceived as annoying as they are uplifting. Again, from my own experience, and in my day I was the one trying to be the positive teammate. It's not ALL about the numbers, but when someone is as lacking as Perez, all the platitudes about him making contact and being a nice guy don't change the fact that he's horrible, and terribly undeserving of 2 years and 5 million.

 

Now, for your hypothetical on free agency. Neifi played pretty poorly last year, so if anything he should be down my "loyalty" list. But there's what, 1 in 50 guys who won't bolt the "loyal" club for more cash when their time comes. That's what free agency is about. Money. It may sound nice to say that we're being scumbags to treat Neifi that way, but it's not like he performed amazingly and we kicked him to the curb, or we reneged on a promise. He was bad, we should've gotten rid of him, that's how the market works.

 

And finally, it's not trying to make myself look smart, it's about building the baseball team that's most likely to win you games. SABR does NOT = Stats necessarily. It's all about finding the best way to evaluate players/teams. And signing Neifi Perez to a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, especially when you have Dusty Baker managing your team, is a very poor decision if you are trying to build a team that will win you the most games.

 

I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this. I think you're a great poster, so let's just agree to disagree.

[nolanwood]

Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

 

Unfortunately, he's very very bad at it.

 

You're just missing the point entirely. What makes you think if you were a coach and I was a FA, I would in any way want to play for you? You obviously as a coach wouldn't hold any loyalty to players, and its questionable whether your commitment is winning or sticking to your SABR for right or wrong in order to possibly come out in the end looking like a genius.

 

No, I understand the point, and I think you're dead wrong. How do we know that everytime Neifi goes to the mound, the pitcher just wants him to get away, half the pitchers I've ever played with didn't want anyone to conference with them. Same thing in the dugout/clubhouse. Someone who is a happy guy can be perceived as annoying as they are uplifting. Again, from my own experience, and in my day I was the one trying to be the positive teammate. It's not ALL about the numbers, but when someone is as lacking as Perez, all the platitudes about him making contact and being a nice guy don't change the fact that he's horrible, and terribly undeserving of 2 years and 5 million.

 

Now, for your hypothetical on free agency. Neifi played pretty poorly last year, so if anything he should be down my "loyalty" list. But there's what, 1 in 50 guys who won't bolt the "loyal" club for more cash when their time comes. That's what free agency is about. Money. It may sound nice to say that we're being scumbags to treat Neifi that way, but it's not like he performed amazingly and we kicked him to the curb, or we reneged on a promise. He was bad, we should've gotten rid of him, that's how the market works.

 

And finally, it's not trying to make myself look smart, it's about building the baseball team that's most likely to win you games. SABR does NOT = Stats necessarily. It's all about finding the best way to evaluate players/teams. And signing Neifi Perez to a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, especially when you have Dusty Baker managing your team, is a very poor decision if you are trying to build a team that will win you the most games.

 

 

I think Neifi was a lifesaver last year after Nomar went down the 2nd week. He hopped in and filled that role beautifully, the only knock against him was the Crusty kept throwing him in the wrong spot in the batting order. Neifi was above league average in regards to his batting avg., and his .obp was right around .300. I think those numbers, coupled with all the other positive attributes he brings to the game, justify Neifi being a very legitimate 8th man in our batting lineup.

 

If we need to address the REAL issues, how about that lump of suckage in CF - we NEVER ended up solving that problem. My biggest worry is that we'll address RF and ignore the suckage factor in CF. At least Neifi stepped up when Nomar went down and was productive. I can't handle watching Patterson stepped up to the plate anymore - it makes my stomach turn :evil:

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Nefei role should be a 25th man defensive replacement type guy making the minimum. Nefei can be mildly useful if utilized correctly.

[fearthecubs]

Nefei role should be a 25th man defensive replacement type guy making the minimum. Nefei can be mildly useful if utilized correctly.

 

League minimum? I know at the least the Rockies and Royals wanted to sign Neifi to a 2 year deal to be a starter before we signed him for 2/5.

[RynoRules]

Neifi is a useful bench player. I don't think NSBB has a problem with Neifi, just how Dusty uses him.

 

You're exactly right. Neifi is a quality player and honestly, I have absolutely no problem giving him 2.5M - I said about a million times in other threads - who else is there to sign if not Neifi, I didnt get ONE reply. Hm, maybe instead of 2/5 for Neifi we should get Graf for 3/9? that makes more sense?

 

Neifi's brutal. It's easier to count players we wouldn't rather have. First and foremost though, we don't need a backup middle infielder with Cedeno and Fontenot both ready. But if for some reason we HAVE to start Cedeno, D'Angelo Jimenez was available at last check, and is roughly infinitely better than Neifi.

 

Fontenot's D isn't nearly as good, he's not a veteran off the bench, and Jiminez was let go due to awful personal behavior.

 

Fontenot's O is also much better than Neifi, and I could care less if the player on the bench is young, old, veteran, choirboy, jerk, or unborn fetus as long as they produce.

 

What's your basis for that argument? His AA nos.?

[mg420]

Lay off the poor guy, he wants to help YOUR team win.

 

Unfortunately, he's very very bad at it.

 

You're just missing the point entirely. What makes you think if you were a coach and I was a FA, I would in any way want to play for you? You obviously as a coach wouldn't hold any loyalty to players, and its questionable whether your commitment is winning or sticking to your SABR for right or wrong in order to possibly come out in the end looking like a genius.

 

No, I understand the point, and I think you're dead wrong. How do we know that everytime Neifi goes to the mound, the pitcher just wants him to get away, half the pitchers I've ever played with didn't want anyone to conference with them. Same thing in the dugout/clubhouse. Someone who is a happy guy can be perceived as annoying as they are uplifting. Again, from my own experience, and in my day I was the one trying to be the positive teammate. It's not ALL about the numbers, but when someone is as lacking as Perez, all the platitudes about him making contact and being a nice guy don't change the fact that he's horrible, and terribly undeserving of 2 years and 5 million.

 

Now, for your hypothetical on free agency. Neifi played pretty poorly last year, so if anything he should be down my "loyalty" list. But there's what, 1 in 50 guys who won't bolt the "loyal" club for more cash when their time comes. That's what free agency is about. Money. It may sound nice to say that we're being scumbags to treat Neifi that way, but it's not like he performed amazingly and we kicked him to the curb, or we reneged on a promise. He was bad, we should've gotten rid of him, that's how the market works.

 

And finally, it's not trying to make myself look smart, it's about building the baseball team that's most likely to win you games. SABR does NOT = Stats necessarily. It's all about finding the best way to evaluate players/teams. And signing Neifi Perez to a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, especially when you have Dusty Baker managing your team, is a very poor decision if you are trying to build a team that will win you the most games.

 

 

I think Neifi was a lifesaver last year after Nomar went down the 2nd week. He hopped in and filled that role beautifully, the only knock against him was the Crusty kept throwing him in the wrong spot in the batting order. Neifi was above league average in regards to his batting avg., and his .obp was right around .300. I think those numbers, coupled with all the other positive attributes he brings to the game, justify Neifi being a very legitimate 8th man in our batting lineup.

 

If we need to address the REAL issues, how about that lump of suckage in CF - we NEVER ended up solving that problem. My biggest worry is that we'll address RF and ignore the suckage factor in CF. At least Neifi stepped up when Nomar went down and was productive. I can't handle watching Patterson stepped up to the plate anymore - it makes my stomach turn :evil:

 

most likey you wont have to worry about him coming to the plate for the cubs next year.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Nefei role should be a 25th man defensive replacement type guy making the minimum. Nefei can be mildly useful if utilized correctly.

 

League minimum? I know at the least the Rockies and Royals wanted to sign Neifi to a 2 year deal to be a starter before we signed him for 2/5.

 

Since he's a bench player I don't think anyone should be throwing much more money then the minimum and one year at him.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Nefei role should be a 25th man defensive replacement type guy making the minimum. Nefei can be mildly useful if utilized correctly.

 

League minimum? I know at the least the Rockies and Royals wanted to sign Neifi to a 2 year deal to be a starter before we signed him for 2/5.

 

That should tell you about the quality of player he is. I'm glad we stole him away. :D

[Careless]

Why do people keep saying that neifi is getting $2.5 mil? At the absolute minimum, neifi will make $6 million over the next 2 years.

Signing bonuses aren't free money, people

[Careless]

Nefei role should be a 25th man defensive replacement type guy making the minimum. Nefei can be mildly useful if utilized correctly.

 

League minimum? I know at the least the Rockies and Royals wanted to sign Neifi to a 2 year deal to be a starter before we signed him for 2/5.

So you believe that neifi chose being a probable bench player for the cubs at 2/6 instead of starting for another team? You think that another team wanted him to start but couldn't match $3 a year?

[fearthecubs]

Why do people keep saying that neifi is getting $2.5 mil? At the absolute minimum, neifi will make $6 million over the next 2 years.

Signing bonuses aren't free money, people

 

Sorry, I don't pay enough attention to financial detail to remember if Neifi gets 2.5 or 3M. I just really don't care. He's the backup infielder. Meh.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Why do people keep saying that neifi is getting $2.5 mil? At the absolute minimum, neifi will make $6 million over the next 2 years.

Signing bonuses aren't free money, people

 

Sorry, I don't pay enough attention to financial detail to remember if Neifi gets 2.5 or 3M. I just really don't care. He's the backup infielder. Meh.

 

is he? i don't remember Hendry saying that.

[fearthecubs]

Why do people keep saying that neifi is getting $2.5 mil? At the absolute minimum, neifi will make $6 million over the next 2 years.

Signing bonuses aren't free money, people

 

Sorry, I don't pay enough attention to financial detail to remember if Neifi gets 2.5 or 3M. I just really don't care. He's the backup infielder. Meh.

 

is he? i don't remember Hendry saying that.

 

Hendry also said Sosa wasn't going anywhere - who goes by what he says. It's widely assumed its going to be Furcal/Cedeno or Cedeno/Walker