Howry signs with Cubs (yes, it's official)

[Jazz]

i only like these 2 deals if:

 

Hendry still has it in mind to sure up the offense. we still have glaring holes at CF, RF, and SS. That being said, with these signing, we could see a number of moves involving our former bullpen pitchers as trading chips to acquire offense/starting pitching.

 

I think a todd walker for a bullpen pitcher like romero has just become redundant, so we could definately use them in one of the many proposed FLA trades for Castillo/Pierre

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

 

He gave Eyre and is reportedly offering Howry THREE YEARS. Not smart. I'd rather have Ryan for 3/24 and have Novoa still in the pen than Eyre and Howry at their(reported in Howry's case) deals.

[YearofDaCubs]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

 

He gave Eyre and is reportedly offering Howry THREE YEARS. Not smart. I'd rather have Ryan for 3/24 and have Novoa still in the pen than Eyre and Howry at their(reported in Howry's case) deals.

Yeah that. For the amount of both relievers we can get a stud RP.

[indifferent]

Howry had an unbelieveably lucky season. However, we have a GM and staff that has no idea what the acronym "BABIP" stands for or why it is important.

 

In 2004, Cleveland had one of the worst pens in the majors - for much of the year it was ranked as one of the worst ever. In 2005, they had one of the strongest pen in the majors.

 

It was mainly the same guys.

 

Spending big money on the pen doesn't make sense unless you spend REALLY big money on the pen. And even that doesn't work very well. Most successful pens are built from home-grown guys, astute waiver-wire pickups and cheap FA's. Big money bullpens have a distinct tendency to be mediocre.

 

I guess that explains the Cards bullpen degree of success. And healthy starting pitching coupled with a manager obsessed with matchups.

[Tim]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Howry had an unbelieveably lucky season. However, we have a GM and staff that has no idea what the acronym "BABIP" stands for or why it is important.

 

In 2004, Cleveland had one of the worst pens in the majors - for much of the year it was ranked as one of the worst ever. In 2005, they had one of the strongest pen in the majors.

 

It was mainly the same guys.

 

Spending big money on the pen doesn't make sense unless you spend REALLY big money on the pen. And even that doesn't work very well. Most successful pens are built from home-grown guys, astute waiver-wire pickups and cheap FA's. Big money bullpens have a distinct tendency to be mediocre.

 

Great, you sit around and wait for Todd Wellemeyer and Roberto Novoa and Cliff Bartosh to figure it out and have a "high BABIP" year. Me, I won't be holding my breath. I like my odds better on going with guys that have at least shown they can have ML success, than guys who have never had any.

[Mizzou]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

[Jehrico]

I don't know if I'd put much validity behind the report. Stark and Gammons both work for ESPN, Gammon's comment was probably in reference to Stark's article. Stark has never been a great source for rumors that come true. I can't see, in any circumstances, 23 million being dedicated in one off season to a couple of middle relievers. If it is true, while I think he is overspending, I'm happy to see Hendry turning a team weakness into a strength. Adding Eyre and Howry makes Wuertz better too, as he's likely to not be overused. Same with Williamson, in his first full post-operation season. We'll see how Dempster holds up, he'll get a lot of save opportunities with that pen.

[WrigleyField 22]

Dempster

Eyre

Howry

Williamson

Wuertz

Rusch

Novoa/Wellymeyer if we go w/ 7man pen

 

Certianly has the potential to do well. For all the money we will be putting towards it, it better.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry had an unbelieveably lucky season. However, we have a GM and staff that has no idea what the acronym "BABIP" stands for or why it is important.

 

In 2004, Cleveland had one of the worst pens in the majors - for much of the year it was ranked as one of the worst ever. In 2005, they had one of the strongest pen in the majors.

 

It was mainly the same guys.

 

Spending big money on the pen doesn't make sense unless you spend REALLY big money on the pen. And even that doesn't work very well. Most successful pens are built from home-grown guys, astute waiver-wire pickups and cheap FA's. Big money bullpens have a distinct tendency to be mediocre.

 

Great, you sit around and wait for Todd Wellemeyer and Roberto Novoa and Cliff Bartosh to figure it out and have a "high BABIP" year. Me, I won't be holding my breath. I like my odds better on going with guys that have at least shown they can have ML success, than guys who have never had any.

 

Or, we could use that money to sign someone like Ryan who's been lights out for a while, or trade for someone who's capable and we don't have to make a 3 year commitment to.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

He gave Eyre and is reportedly offering Howry THREE YEARS. Not smart. I'd rather have Ryan for 3/24 and have Novoa still in the pen than Eyre and Howry at their(reported in Howry's case) deals.

 

Haha, give me some of what you're smoking. You think you can get BJ Ryan for 3/24? Give me a break. Wagner is about to sign for 4/40.

 

And Novoa stinks.

 

At their reported $$, Eyre + Howry + Dempster = $12.5MM. That is a lot of money, yes. But would you rather have, for similar money, a 9th inning but one inning-at-a-time stud like Wagner--and two zeroes for the 7th and 8th that never get a lead to him? Or three above average to good relievers that get from your starter in the 6th all the way to the end of the game?

 

I know which option I'd choose.

 

And when your $10MM closer blows out his elbow, what do you do then? Ask San Francisco and Los Angeles how well that model works. With this model however, you lose Dempster (say) and you've got two or three other options in house, ready to go, to pick up the slack and avoid disaster.

[Omar]

I dont like the "lucky" explanation for Howry, Eyre, and Lofton. :?

 

Isnt there anything real factual to back that up?

[Tim]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

[Jazz]

hmm, these workings seem indicative of a

FLASH CHAT!

maybe :)?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He gave Eyre and is reportedly offering Howry THREE YEARS. Not smart. I'd rather have Ryan for 3/24 and have Novoa still in the pen than Eyre and Howry at their(reported in Howry's case) deals.

 

Haha, give me some of what you're smoking. You think you can get BJ Ryan for 3/24? Give me a break. Wagner is about to sign for 4/40.

 

And Novoa stinks.

 

At their reported $$, Eyre + Howry + Dempster = $12.5MM. That is a lot of money, yes. But would you rather have, for similar money, a 9th inning but one inning-at-a-time stud like Wagner--and two zeroes for the 7th and 8th that never get a lead to him? Or three above average to good relievers that get from your starter in the 6th all the way to the end of the game?

 

I know which option I'd choose.

 

And when your $10MM closer blows out his elbow, what do you do then? Ask San Francisco and Los Angeles how well that model works. With this model however, you lose Dempster (say) and you've got two or three other options in house, ready to go, to pick up the slack and avoid disaster.

 

You're vastly overestimating the difference between Eyre/Howry and our current options. Dempster + Ryan + Novoa > Dempster + Eyre + Howry

[don_kessinger_was_good]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

 

What part of Eyre's post-ADD story did you not read?

 

Ohman and Wuertz career ERA? Small. Sample. Size.

 

Look, I like Ohman and Wuertz, I want them in my bullpen. But you are exaggerating your point to argue they are as good as Eyre and Howry, respectively. They are not.

[Omar]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

 

What part of Eyre's post-ADD story did you not read?

 

Ohman and Wuertz career ERA? Small. Sample. Size.

 

Look, I like Ohman and Wuertz, I want them in my bullpen. But you are exaggerating your point to argue they are as good as Eyre and Howry, respectively. They are not.

 

Wuertz and Ohman have been playing for A LOT less time than Howry and Eyre have..

[Tim]

I dont like the "lucky" explanation for Howry, Eyre, and Lofton. :?

 

Isnt there anything real factual to back that up?

"Lucky" is simply shorthand.

 

Eyre's career ERA is 4.52. Can you tell me what he's changed to drop his hr rate? What did he do to lead to hitters having less success on balls in play than in previous years? Or is possible that it was just one of those years where the ball bounced his way. Basically any reliever good enough to stick around MLB for a number of years is going to have a season where his numbers look great. They usually proceed to get a big contract from some dim-witted team thinking he's "turned the corner".

 

They usually getting stuck paying big money to guys like David Weathers for three years.

[Mizzou]

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

 

Derrek Lee career OBP - .363

Ryan Freel career OBP - .369

 

Aramis Ramirez career OBP - .329

Bobby Hill career OBP - 343

 

So are Lee and Freel equal? Are Ramirez and Hill?

 

You can't just look at a player's career stats and tell me that they are one and the same at the current stage.

[RockTheIvy]

Just a question, but when is it okay to overspend. The Red Sox needed a closer for the 2004 season and they overspent for Keith Foulke, even providing him an extra year. People saw that as a good move. He had a great season, followed up by a disaster. Boston also needed a short stop, so they paid Renteria 40 mil. Again, not a great signing, but they were paying for the best.

 

In short, I think sometimes teams need to pay more to get more, and not rely on cheaper, more unpredictable alternatives.

[Tim]

If Hendry were actually paying top dollar for good relievers, I'd agree with the strategy.

 

Paying top dollar for middle aged relievers coming off career years is not a path to success in my mind. Some days, the sun shines on the dog's butt. But most days, it's still just a dog's butt.

 

You are being entirely too negative about the quality of Eyre and Howry. These guys aren't scrubs.

 

As for the money, big deal, at least it's being spent on something here that can help the team, unlike the Neifi and Rusch signings.

 

An improved Cub bullpen is worth an extra 8 to 10 games over the course of a season. That's puts us back to the upper 80 win total category and a playoff contender again. Add a leadoff man and some respectable outfielders and this team is ready to go.

Both of these guys are average players who happen to be coming off extremely lucky seasons. Not only were both lucky on a balls in play perspective, but both were well under their typical HR/IP last year.

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

 

What part of Eyre's post-ADD story did you not read?

 

Ohman and Wuertz career ERA? Small. Sample. Size.

 

Look, I like Ohman and Wuertz, I want them in my bullpen. But you are exaggerating your point to argue they are as good as Eyre and Howry, respectively. They are not.

 

Wuertz and Ohman have been playing for A LOT less time than Howry and Eyre have..

Yes, they have.

 

So, you, like Dusty, want to pay guys the big bucks becuase they "been there", eh?

[Tim]

 

We're committing 7M/year and getting pitchers no better than Wuertz and Ohman. Who knows, maybe they're durable enough to hold up to Dusty's usage patterns. That would be a plus.

 

Whoa whoa. You're saying that Howry and Eyre are equal to Wuertz and Ohman?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Ohamn career era - 4.17

Eyre career era - 4.52

 

Wuertz career era - 3.96

Howry career era - 3.58

 

Derrek Lee career OBP - .363

Ryan Freel career OBP - .369

 

Aramis Ramirez career OBP - .329

Bobby Hill career OBP - 343

 

So are Lee and Freel equal? Are Ramirez and Hill?

 

You can't just look at a player's career stats and tell me that they are one and the same at the current stage.

Interesting effort, but don't you think that ERA is a bit more encompassing a stat for a pitcher than OBP for a hitter?

 

BTW - I wish we had Freel. ;)

[nolanwood]

I don't consider the money we spent on Eyre or will spend on Howry as bad news at all. I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow it. I'd say throwing Howry and Eyre in the mix along with a complete season of Dempster closing will pick us up another 12-15 wins. And I'd rather spend that money on two proven veterans than dump it all and more on Wagner or Ryan. Now, if we pick up a legitimate lead off hitter with some speed, a solid bat for the OF, and a stud pitcher we should be looking really good.

[Tim]

Just a question, but when is it okay to overspend. The Red Sox needed a closer for the 2004 season and they overspent for Keith Foulke, even providing him an extra year. People saw that as a good move. He had a great season, followed up by a disaster. Boston also needed a short stop, so they paid Renteria 40 mil. Again, not a great signing, but they were paying for the best.

 

In short, I think sometimes teams need to pay more to get more, and not rely on cheaper, more unpredictable alternatives.

Looking at the year by year stats for Eyre and Howry, what is it that is there that inspires confidence in you that they're especially predictable?

[Tim]

I don't consider the money we spent on Eyre or will spend on Howry as bad news at all. I'm tired of watching our bullpen blow it. I'd say throwing Howry and Eyre in the mix along with a complete season of Dempster closing will pick us up another 12-15 wins. And I'd rather spend that money on two proven veterans than dump it all and more on Wagner or Ryan. Now, if we pick up a legitimate lead off hitter with some speed, a solid bat for the OF, and a stud pitcher we should be looking really good.

Ah, finally. The "proven veteran" phrase has arisen.