To Pie Or Not To Pie...

[CubinNY]

Here is my deal:

 

Pie may turn out to be great. But he most likely won't be great for at least 3 years. In addition, he is ranked at the top of the Cubs system but not near the top of all prospects in baseball. In other words, he is the best the Cubs have but not nearly the best.

 

Now let's look at Abreu. He is a top five player at his position. He will likely be near the top for at least the length of his current contract.

 

The Cubs have a brief window with this group of pitchers and they need a productive RFer. With Lee, Rameriz, and Abreu the Cubs have a top 5 middle of the order. Put a couple of guys who can get on base in front of them and you have the makings of a championship offense.

 

With Z and Prior you have the one-two punch needed to succeed in the playoffs. If the Cubs get anything from Wood and Dempster continues to do well at the end you have the makings of division winning pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry and Philadelphia is interested in Pie I try to make the deal work.

[Backtobanks]

Here is my deal:

 

Pie may turn out to be great. But he most likely won't be great for at least 3 years. In addition, he is ranked at the top of the Cubs system but not near the top of all prospects in baseball. In other words, he is the best the Cubs have but not nearly the best.

 

Now let's look at Abreu. He is a top five player at his position. He will likely be near the top for at least the length of his current contract.

 

The Cubs have a brief window with this group of pitchers and they need a productive RFer. With Lee, Rameriz, and Abreu the Cubs have a top 5 middle of the order. Put a couple of guys who can get on base in front of them and you have the makings of a championship offense.

 

With Z and Prior you have the one-two punch needed to succeed in the playoffs. If the Cubs get anything from Wood and Dempster continues to do well at the end you have the makings of division winning pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry and Philadelphia is interested in Pie I try to make the deal work.

 

How do you know he won't be great for at least 3 years? Pujols and Cabrera didn't take 3 years to become stars. Every GM will ask for Pie, but I think Abreu can be obtained with a package of players without Pie included. Hendry has accumulated a ton of spare parts, rule 5 players, and prospects to put together a decent package.

[CubinNY]

Here is my deal:

 

Pie may turn out to be great. But he most likely won't be great for at least 3 years. In addition, he is ranked at the top of the Cubs system but not near the top of all prospects in baseball. In other words, he is the best the Cubs have but not nearly the best.

 

Now let's look at Abreu. He is a top five player at his position. He will likely be near the top for at least the length of his current contract.

 

The Cubs have a brief window with this group of pitchers and they need a productive RFer. With Lee, Rameriz, and Abreu the Cubs have a top 5 middle of the order. Put a couple of guys who can get on base in front of them and you have the makings of a championship offense.

 

With Z and Prior you have the one-two punch needed to succeed in the playoffs. If the Cubs get anything from Wood and Dempster continues to do well at the end you have the makings of division winning pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry and Philadelphia is interested in Pie I try to make the deal work.

 

How do you know he won't be great for at least 3 years? Pujols and Cabrera didn't take 3 years to become stars. Every GM will ask for Pie, but I think Abreu can be obtained with a package of players without Pie included. Hendry has accumulated a ton of spare parts, rule 5 players, and prospects to put together a decent package.

 

I don't. But you don't know he will be great. The kid has had 1/2 of a good season in professional baseball, and at the minor league level. He has a big loopy swing and swings at everything. I'm not saying he is terrible, but he has a lot to work on and will not likely make a big league club until 2007 at the earliest. Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

 

Now I'll turn the question back to you; How do you know Abreu can be had for spare parts? I find that quite preposterous.

[Andy]

Bingo. They've been luck as heck with that stuff for years. The best 3B in the NL goes down, they replace him with Nunez, who never had an OBP over .300 before this year, and he makes like Tony Gwynn. Ridiculous.

 

If you can do it consistently for years I don't think you can call it luck. I don't know what it is, but if it was luck it would even out over the years.

You'd think, but these are the things that happen to Cubs' rivals...

[goonys evil twin]

I don't. But you don't know he will be great. The kid has had 1/2 of a good season in professional baseball, and at the minor league level.

 

Pie has more than 1/2 of a good pro season. He was good in 2004 and was pretty good in 2003. He also had a great debut in rookie ball.

 

You could say he's only had 1/2 a great season above rookie ball. But that's hardly a knock.

 

Plus, Pie's resume is pretty similar to Cabrerra as of this stage in their respective careers.

[1908]

I don't. But you don't know he will be great. The kid has had 1/2 of a good season in professional baseball, and at the minor league level.

 

Pie has more than 1/2 of a good pro season. He was good in 2004 and was pretty good in 2003. He also had a great debut in rookie ball.

 

You could say he's only had 1/2 a great season above rookie ball. But that's hardly a knock.

 

Plus, Pie's resume is pretty similar to Cabrerra as of this stage in their respective careers.

Pie has also been very young for every level of play, one of the key signs of potential greatness.

[CubinNY]

I don't. But you don't know he will be great. The kid has had 1/2 of a good season in professional baseball, and at the minor league level.

 

Pie has more than 1/2 of a good pro season. He was good in 2004 and was pretty good in 2003. He also had a great debut in rookie ball.

 

You could say he's only had 1/2 a great season above rookie ball. But that's hardly a knock.

 

Plus, Pie's resume is pretty similar to Cabrerra as of this stage in their respective careers.

 

In A ball he is playing against a bunch of guys who will not be going anywhere. However, that makes his 1/2 a season even more impressive. So I guess I will stand corrected and say he has had only 1/2 of a season where he has played great. IMO, that does not make him a can't miss. Nor shoud it preclude him being traded for Abreu.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Let's also not forget that thanks to Mr. Pie, the word "Felix" no longer brings "Heredia" immediately to mind.

[1908]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

[CubinNY]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

 

Abreu is 32 years old. He doesn't have many good seasons left. Pie could bring us a many good seasons at a low price or we can trade him for an under 30 year old impact bat.

[goonys evil twin]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

 

Abreu is 32 years old. He doesn't have many good seasons left. Pie could bring us a many good seasons at a low price or we can trade him for an under 30 year old impact bat.

 

I'll take that under 30 impact bat please.

 

But assuming that player isn't available, I'll take Abreu.

[1908]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

Nobody expected those numbers from Pujols in his first year. Can you imagine the backlash if the Cards had traded Albert for a proven difference maker a few years past his peak?

[1908]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

And how does this relates to your incorrect statement about Abreu being a better hitter than Pujols at the start of Albert's career?

[CubinNY]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

 

Abreu is 32 years old. He doesn't have many good seasons left. Pie could bring us a many good seasons at a low price or we can trade him for an under 30 year old impact bat.

 

I'd be all for that too. Abreu is 32 so what? He has three years left on his contract, in that three years he is likely not to regress that much.

 

I like Pie I think he might be great. Might is the key word here. Abreu is great and if it takes Pie to get him I would do it. That is all I'm saying. I think the Cubs need to move now, I beileve their window of opportunity is closing. It's fine if other disagree.

[CubinNY]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

And how does this relates to your incorrect statement about Abreu being a better hitter than Pujols at the start of Albert's career?

 

It doesn't but this thread is not about any incorrect comparison I made to Albert and Abreu it is about the idea of trading Pie. I didn't know you where that much into pissing contests.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Bottom line how you feel about a Pie for Abreu deal should partially be dependant on the Cub’s World Series chances in the next few years with him.

 

If I were the Cubs I'd most likely do the deal.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Bottom line how you feel about a Pie for Abreu deal should partially be dependant on the Cub’s World Series chances in the next few years with him.

 

If I were the Cubs I'd most likely do the deal.

 

I don't really feel that the chances are too great, considering all our hopes rest on Prior/Wood/Zambrano and not on acquiring an impact bat. If Prior/Wood/Zambrano are all healthy for a full season and produce like we know they can, we don't need Abreu to make the playoffs and potentially win a WS. If they're not all healthy, Abreu isn't going to get us to the WS.

[goonys evil twin]

Bottom line how you feel about a Pie for Abreu deal should partially be dependant on the Cub’s World Series chances in the next few years with him.

 

If I were the Cubs I'd most likely do the deal.

 

I don't really feel that the chances are too great, considering all our hopes rest on Prior/Wood/Zambrano and not on acquiring an impact bat. If Prior/Wood/Zambrano are all healthy for a full season and produce like we know they can, we don't need Abreu to make the playoffs and potentially win a WS. If they're not all healthy, Abreu isn't going to get us to the WS.

 

That is some extremely backward thinking.

 

Prior Wood and Zambrano were all healthy and effective in 2003, and it led to an 88 win team. Why? Because the offense was mediocre due almost exclusively to the low BB/OBP numbers.

 

If you feel the chances aren't great to capitalize on those guys in the next couple years, then you might as well advocate trading them all.

 

That's pure silliness in my opinion.

[1908]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

And how does this relates to your incorrect statement about Abreu being a better hitter than Pujols at the start of Albert's career?

 

It doesn't but this thread is not about any incorrect comparison I made to Albert and Abreu it is about the idea of trading Pie. I didn't know you where that much into pissing contests.

A pissing contest? That's great. You're the one that brought Albert's rookie production into this, and your incorrect statement seemed directed at dismissing Pie's chances at being an impact bat his rookie season.

[CubinNY]

Besides, Pie does not have the pedigree of either Albert or Miguel. In addiion, neither of those two were where Abreu is now in their first year.

Pujols hit .329/.403/.610 in his first season, a better OPS+ than Abreu has ever posted in his career.

 

Do you expect those numbers from Pie in his first year in the bigs? Do you expect Pie to be a 30/30 guy with an OBP of 330+? In his first year do you expect pie to have a SLG of even cloes to .500? If so, when do you expect him to be and everyday MLer? Abreu brings all that right now.

And how does this relates to your incorrect statement about Abreu being a better hitter than Pujols at the start of Albert's career?

 

It doesn't but this thread is not about any incorrect comparison I made to Albert and Abreu it is about the idea of trading Pie. I didn't know you where that much into pissing contests.

A pissing contest? That's great. You're the one that brought Albert's rookie production into this, and your incorrect statement seemed directed at dismissing Pie's chances at being an impact bat his rookie season.

 

In his rookie year do you expect Pie to post numbers similar to Albert in his rookie year? Do you expect him to post simialr numubers to what Abreu posted for the last three years? If so when do you expect Pie will be playing for the Cubs and producing those numbers?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Bottom line how you feel about a Pie for Abreu deal should partially be dependant on the Cub’s World Series chances in the next few years with him.

 

If I were the Cubs I'd most likely do the deal.

 

I don't really feel that the chances are too great, considering all our hopes rest on Prior/Wood/Zambrano and not on acquiring an impact bat. If Prior/Wood/Zambrano are all healthy for a full season and produce like we know they can, we don't need Abreu to make the playoffs and potentially win a WS. If they're not all healthy, Abreu isn't going to get us to the WS.

 

That is some extremely backward thinking.

 

Prior Wood and Zambrano were all healthy and effective in 2003, and it led to an 88 win team. Why? Because the offense was mediocre due almost exclusively to the low BB/OBP numbers.

 

If you feel the chances aren't great to capitalize on those guys in the next couple years, then you might as well advocate trading them all.

 

That's pure silliness in my opinion.

 

It's silly to say that the success of 2006 depends on our rotation? Abreu isn't the last piece to the puzzle, so why trade away your best prospect for him? his age is the primary factor, IMO. you're basically trading away the future for a shot at the next two years with Abreu.

 

Zambrano and Prior are going to be re-signed long term and they're both young. it would be nice to win in the next two years, but we have too many holes and too many things that can go wrong (and are likely too, like Wood's arm falling off) to take a chance on Abreu, who isn't a long term solution.

[1908]

In his rookie year do you expect Pie to post numbers similar to Albert in his rookie year? Do you expect him to post simialr numubers to what Abreu posted for the last three years? If so when do you expect Pie will be playing for the Cubs and producing those numbers?

Do you think the Cubs are an Abreu away from winning the World Series in the next couple years?

[CubinNY]

In his rookie year do you expect Pie to post numbers similar to Albert in his rookie year? Do you expect him to post simialr numubers to what Abreu posted for the last three years? If so when do you expect Pie will be playing for the Cubs and producing those numbers?

Do you think the Cubs are an Abreu away from winning the World Series in the next couple years?

 

Yes. I also think Pie has a chance to be a speical player. I wouldn't just trade him away for anyone.

 

I am interested though, what do you think Pie's numbers will look like his rookie season? Will that season be 2006 or 2007?

 

edit add: as I stated previously, with Abreu, Lee, Rameriz the cubs have a top 5 middle of the order. if they put a couple of guys in front of them who can get on base they have the makings of a championship offense.

 

With the starting pitching and a little luck form the pen they have the makings of a division winning pitching.

Edited November 22, 2005 by CubinNY

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

In his rookie year do you expect Pie to post numbers similar to Albert in his rookie year? Do you expect him to post simialr numubers to what Abreu posted for the last three years? If so when do you expect Pie will be playing for the Cubs and producing those numbers?

Do you think the Cubs are an Abreu away from winning the World Series in the next couple years?

 

if you say "no" it's "backward thinking." :roll: