A Career-Ending Job?

[CubbieRich]

Is being the manager of the Cubs the last managerial job you will ever have? If you look at the list, it may seem that way:

 

Frey, Michael, Zimmer, Essian, Lefebrve, Treblehorn, Riggleman, Baylor, Kimm

 

None of them went on to other managerial jobs. The one that surprised me was Riggleman who was the 'hot property' for awhile.

[BigbadB]

Riggleman is currently being looked at in Tampa. Or, at least he was.

[cubbieinexile]

Pretty much all of those names are of people are soldiers for organizations. And the ones that are not became GM's and another one got cancer.

[Derwood]

Pretty much all of those names are of people are soldiers for organizations. And the ones that are not became GM's and another one got cancer.

 

Riggs and Baylor have coaching positions. I'd actually love to have him back. He was stuck with such total crap rosters while he was here (1998 the exception of course).

[David]

Pretty much all of those names are of people are soldiers for organizations. And the ones that are not became GM's and another one got cancer.

 

Riggs and Baylor have coaching positions. I'd actually love to have him back. He was stuck with such total crap rosters while he was here (1998 the exception of course).

 

And 98 was pretty much crap too. We just caught lightning in a bottle...

 

Servais, Grace, Morandini, Blauser, Gomez(??was he still here??)/Hernandez/Gaetti, Rodriguez, Johnson, Sosa...

 

I dunno.. Riggs wouldn't be my top choice, but I WOULD take him over Baker.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Pretty much all of those names are of people are soldiers for organizations. And the ones that are not became GM's and another one got cancer.

 

Riggs and Baylor have coaching positions. I'd actually love to have him back. He was stuck with such total crap rosters while he was here (1998 the exception of course).

 

And 98 was pretty much crap too. We just caught lightning in a bottle...

 

Servais, Grace, Morandini, Blauser, Gomez(??was he still here??)/Hernandez/Gaetti, Rodriguez, Johnson, Sosa...

 

I dunno.. Riggs wouldn't be my top choice, but I WOULD take him over Baker.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1998.shtml

 

Yeah, that 98 team was pretty much crap. Jason Hardtke, Matt Mieske, etc, etc, oh boy...how did the heck did the Cubs make that playoffs?

[BigbadB]

You can call the '98 team crap, but look at those fat OBP's on that team.

 

Morandini had a .380 OBP

Blauser had a .340

Grace and Glenallen Hill were over .400

Gaetti had a .397

Sosa was at .377

Brant Brown was at .348

Henry Rodriguez was at .334

Mieske was at .373

Lance Johnson .335

 

They got people on base. They scored 831 runs in 1998 compared to 703 this year, 789 last year and 724 in Dusty's first year. Under Baylor, they scored 706 in 2002, 777 in 2001, and 764 in Baylor's first year.

 

Riggleman did much more with much less.

[littleburr24]

You can call the '98 team crap, but look at those fat OBP's on that team.

 

Morandini had a .380 OBP

Blauser had a .340

Grace and Glenallen Hill were over .400

Gaetti had a .397

Sosa was at .377

Brant Brown was at .348

Henry Rodriguez was at .334

Mieske was at .373

Lance Johnson .335

 

They got people on base. They scored 831 runs in 1998 compared to 703 this year, 789 last year and 724 in Dusty's first year. Under Baylor, they scored 706 in 2002, 777 in 2001, and 764 in Baylor's first year.

 

Riggleman did much more with much less.

 

 

I still don't understand why the Cubs let Riggleman go. I'd love to have him back to manage the Cubs, I always liked him.

[Fred Hornkohl]

The manager of the Chicago CUBS is pretty much a dead end job. Take a look at this illustrious list of baseball expertise and make your own judgement..........

 

                                          avg
Maqnager       From  To    W    L    pct  fin
Stan Hack        54  56  196  265  0.489  7.0
Bob Scheffing    57  59  208  254  0.450  6.7
Charlie Grimm    60  60    6   11  0.353  7.0
Lou Boudreau     60  60   54   83  0.394  7.0
Vedie Himsl      61  61   10   21  0.323  7.0
Harry Craft      61  61    7    9  0.438  7.0
El Tappe         61  62   46   70  0.397  8.0
Lou Klein        61  62   17   24  0.415  8.0
Charlie Metro    62  62   43   69  0.384  9.0
Bob Kennedy      63  65  182  198  0.479  7.7
Lou Klein        65  65   48   58  0.453  8.0
Leo Durocher     66  72  535  526  0.504  3.7
Whitey Lockman   72  74  157  162  0.492  4.3
Jim Marshall     74  76  175  218  0.445  5.3
Herman Franks    77  79  238  241  0.497  4.0
Joey Amalfitano  79  80   28   51  0.354  5.5
Preston Gomez    80  80   38   52  0.422  6.0
Joey Amalfitano  81  81   38   65  0.369  5.5
Lee Elia         82  83  127  158  0.446  5.0
Charley Fox      83  83   17   22  0.436  5.0
Jim Frey         84  86  196  182  0.519  3.3
John Vukovich    86  86    1    1  0.500  5.0
Gene Michael     86  87  114  124  0.479  5.5
Frank Lucchesi   87  87    8   17  0.320  6.0
Don Zimmer       88  91  265  258  0.507  3.5
Joe Altobelli    91  91    0    1  0.000  4.0
Jim Essian       91  91   59   63  0.484  4.0
Jim Lefebvre     92  93  162  162  0.500  4.0
Tom Trebelhorn   94  94   49   64  0.434  5.0
Jim Riggleman    95  99  374  419  0.472  4.0

 

Sixteen of the above skippers, more than half, took the CUBS field leadership position with no previous major league experience. Another six came to the CUBS with less than four years experience. Of the remaining managers with experience, you have......

 

Durocher    16
Boudreau    15
Grimm       14+
Zimmer       7+
Altobelli    5+
Trebelhorn   5
Fox          4+
Franks       4

 

Subsequent experience after leaving the CUBS is even more bleak. 21 of the 30 managers listed above, fully 70%, never managed in the major leagues again. Four more managed in the bigs again, but didn't last one full year. Another 3 lasted for one full year, but didn't make it to two years. Only Harry Craft (3) and Bob Scheffing (2+) had any significant time managing after the CUBS.

 

My choice of time frame here (1954-1998) is not random. A wonderful comparison can be drawn here. While the CUBS were busy shuffling 30 managers in and out during this 45 year span.... consider the Brooklyn / Los Angeles Dodgers. During that same 45 years, the Dodgers' managers were:

 

Walter Alston
Tommy Lasorda
Bill Russell

 

That's right. Three managers in 45 years, while the CUBS used 30. It might be argued that Russell might still be the Dodger's manager today were it not for a change in ownership of the franchise, but that's only speculation. Here's the real bottom line.......

 

          1954 thru 1998                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Los Angeles Dodgers      3866    3235   0.544    15     6     5
Cincinnati Reds          3777    3315   0.533     9     3     3
Atlanta Braves           3649    3438   0.515    11     2     4
San Francisco Giants     3653    3454   0.514     6     1     2
St. Louis Cardinals      3638    3451   0.513     8     3     3
Pittsburgh Pirates       3603    3484   0.508    10     3     0
Philadelphia Phillies    3412    3653   0.483     7     1     2
Chicago Cubs             3331    3753   0.470     3     0     0

 

..... the CUBS may have 10 times as many managers, but the Dodgers have 5 times as many playoff appearanes, and 555 more regular season wins (12.3 per year) than the CUBS.

 

Baseball is, indeed, a business. I wish the Tribune Co. would get with the program and put together the best management team available, down to the field manager level, and quit recycling second rate people who have to be replaced every few years. Hell, they don't run the newspaper this way !!

 

Instead of talking about addition by subtraction, or trading Baker for a bucket of warm spit...... figure out who you'd want to see managing the team for the next 20-25 years ???

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Instead of talking about addition by subtraction, or trading Baker for a bucket of warm spit...... figure out who you'd want to see managing the team for the next 20-25 years ???

 

I already have. Fredi Gonzalez, please.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Joe Girardi. :(

[Fred Hornkohl]

I'm really starting to warm up to Fredi Gonzalez..... I mean, how could you not like somebody named Fred ??? :wink:

 

I've always liked Joe Girardi, but I have my doubts as to whether the CUBS will ever consider him seriously for the job.

[RynoRules]

The manager of the Chicago CUBS is pretty much a dead end job. Take a look at this illustrious list of baseball expertise and make your own judgement..........

 

                                          avg
Maqnager       From  To    W    L    pct  fin
Stan Hack        54  56  196  265  0.489  7.0
Bob Scheffing    57  59  208  254  0.450  6.7
Charlie Grimm    60  60    6   11  0.353  7.0
Lou Boudreau     60  60   54   83  0.394  7.0
Vedie Himsl      61  61   10   21  0.323  7.0
Harry Craft      61  61    7    9  0.438  7.0
El Tappe         61  62   46   70  0.397  8.0
Lou Klein        61  62   17   24  0.415  8.0
Charlie Metro    62  62   43   69  0.384  9.0
Bob Kennedy      63  65  182  198  0.479  7.7
Lou Klein        65  65   48   58  0.453  8.0
Leo Durocher     66  72  535  526  0.504  3.7
Whitey Lockman   72  74  157  162  0.492  4.3
Jim Marshall     74  76  175  218  0.445  5.3
Herman Franks    77  79  238  241  0.497  4.0
Joey Amalfitano  79  80   28   51  0.354  5.5
Preston Gomez    80  80   38   52  0.422  6.0
Joey Amalfitano  81  81   38   65  0.369  5.5
Lee Elia         82  83  127  158  0.446  5.0
Charley Fox      83  83   17   22  0.436  5.0
Jim Frey         84  86  196  182  0.519  3.3
John Vukovich    86  86    1    1  0.500  5.0
Gene Michael     86  87  114  124  0.479  5.5
Frank Lucchesi   87  87    8   17  0.320  6.0
Don Zimmer       88  91  265  258  0.507  3.5
Joe Altobelli    91  91    0    1  0.000  4.0
Jim Essian       91  91   59   63  0.484  4.0
Jim Lefebvre     92  93  162  162  0.500  4.0
Tom Trebelhorn   94  94   49   64  0.434  5.0
Jim Riggleman    95  99  374  419  0.472  4.0

 

Sixteen of the above skippers, more than half, took the CUBS field leadership position with no previous major league experience. Another six came to the CUBS with less than four years experience. Of the remaining managers with experience, you have......

 

Durocher    16
Boudreau    15
Grimm       14+
Zimmer       7+
Altobelli    5+
Trebelhorn   5
Fox          4+
Franks       4

 

Subsequent experience after leaving the CUBS is even more bleak. 21 of the 30 managers listed above, fully 70%, never managed in the major leagues again. Four more managed in the bigs again, but didn't last one full year. Another 3 lasted for one full year, but didn't make it to two years. Only Harry Craft (3) and Bob Scheffing (2+) had any significant time managing after the CUBS.

 

My choice of time frame here (1954-1998) is not random. A wonderful comparison can be drawn here. While the CUBS were busy shuffling 30 managers in and out during this 45 year span.... consider the Brooklyn / Los Angeles Dodgers. During that same 45 years, the Dodgers' managers were:

 

Walter Alston
Tommy Lasorda
Bill Russell

 

That's right. Three managers in 45 years, while the CUBS used 30. It might be argued that Russell might still be the Dodger's manager today were it not for a change in ownership of the franchise, but that's only speculation. Here's the real bottom line.......

 

          1954 thru 1998                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Los Angeles Dodgers      3866    3235   0.544    15     6     5
Cincinnati Reds          3777    3315   0.533     9     3     3
Atlanta Braves           3649    3438   0.515    11     2     4
San Francisco Giants     3653    3454   0.514     6     1     2
St. Louis Cardinals      3638    3451   0.513     8     3     3
Pittsburgh Pirates       3603    3484   0.508    10     3     0
Philadelphia Phillies    3412    3653   0.483     7     1     2
Chicago Cubs             3331    3753   0.470     3     0     0

 

..... the CUBS may have 10 times as many managers, but the Dodgers have 5 times as many playoff appearanes, and 555 more regular season wins (12.3 per year) than the CUBS.

 

Baseball is, indeed, a business. I wish the Tribune Co. would get with the program and put together the best management team available, down to the field manager level, and quit recycling second rate people who have to be replaced every few years. Hell, they don't run the newspaper this way !!

 

Instead of talking about addition by subtraction, or trading Baker for a bucket of warm spit...... figure out who you'd want to see managing the team for the next 20-25 years ???

 

I noticed you left Joe McCarthy off your list, but its like I always say, never let the facts get in the way of a good argument. :wink:

[Fred Hornkohl]

I noticed you left Joe McCarthy off your list, but its like I always say, never let the facts get in the way of a good argument. :wink:

 

No, Ryno, I did not leave Joe McCarthy off my list. I included every single man that managed the Chicago CUBS from 1954 through 1998. Joe McCarthy managed the CUBS back in the 20's and retired from baseball completely in 1950 at the age of 63. He was inducted into the HOF in 1957, just 3 years into the time period that was examined here. Read more carefully.