Predict the Apology

[Chris]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

So just because he called a guy out a little bit slower than every other AB it's ok to rule that he was safe? Fast or slow he still called no contact and out the same way he did the entire game.

[CuseCubFan69]

AJ saw the ump put his right arm straight out and ran. The ump then put it up while AJ was running. I would assume he was out. But....if there is any doubt the players should take it out of the umps hands and tag the runner.

 

I also give AJ credit for taking advantage.

 

I don't think there was any doubt in the minds of the Angels players.

 

I agree but there was a longer delay after this strike 3 call. I do believe the umps blew this one but you have to be aware of the possibility.

 

 

So you think that every catcher should tag every batter, after every strike 3?

 

That's a little unreasonable.

 

Yeah...that's sounds logical. :D

 

Seriously, you can not assume and Paul did. The replays that we see are in slow motion and it's still pretty tough to tell if the ball even hit the ground. I don't think it did personally but it was pretty dang close. On balls that close to the dirt I have my catchers tag the batter IMMEDIATELY. Paul threw the ball back before the ump even signaled with his fist up.

 

It's difficult for US to see, but I think that a catcher knows whether the ball hit the dirt, just by the way that the ball hits the glove. Paul clearly knew that he had caught it cleanly.

 

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's difficult for US to see, but I think that a catcher knows whether the ball hit the dirt, just by the way that the ball hits the glove. Paul clearly knew that he had caught it cleanly.

 

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

If the second base umpire makes a fist, one would think he would be safe to.

[K-Town]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

[CuseCubFan69]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

So just because he called a guy out a little bit slower than every other AB it's ok to rule that he was safe? Fast or slow he still called no contact and out the same way he did the entire game.

 

The batter is safe until he is called out. IMO...it's just that simple.

 

There is no doubt that the ump had indecision and this is most cases causes a problem as it did in this one big time. I do not know what went through his head and we all know he is not going to admit blowing the call. I just don't think he is the only culprit in this debacle.

[CuseCubFan69]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

 

But...he has to see or hear him call him out before he does anything with the ball. Paul rolled the ball to the mound before the out was called.

[Chris]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

So just because he called a guy out a little bit slower than every other AB it's ok to rule that he was safe? Fast or slow he still called no contact and out the same way he did the entire game.

 

The batter is safe until he is called out. IMO...it's just that simple.

 

There is no doubt that the ump had indecision and this is most cases causes a problem as it did in this one big time. I do not know what went through his head and we all know he is not going to admit blowing the call. I just don't think he is the only culprit in this debacle.

 

But he was called out. I'm not faulting AJ for running, especially if the only signal he saw was the no contact signal. However, the umpire did call him out.

[CuseCubFan69]

Agreed. I can't see how the Angels could be faulted for not tagging the guy and/or not throwing the first. The gesture of the umpire was consistent with his gestures the entire game. Especially since the umpire didn't verbally make a call I can't see how any blame can be put on the Angels.

 

His gestures were the same but this one had a longer delay. Tell me this...why did AJ figure it out?

 

So just because he called a guy out a little bit slower than every other AB it's ok to rule that he was safe? Fast or slow he still called no contact and out the same way he did the entire game.

 

The batter is safe until he is called out. IMO...it's just that simple.

 

There is no doubt that the ump had indecision and this is most cases causes a problem as it did in this one big time. I do not know what went through his head and we all know he is not going to admit blowing the call. I just don't think he is the only culprit in this debacle.

 

But he was called out. I'm not faulting AJ for running, especially if the only signal he saw was the no contact signal. However, the umpire did call him out.

 

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

[TheDude]

The batter is safe until he is called out. IMO...it's just that simple.

Exactly. And since the umpire clearly called him out, the same way he called every other swinging strikeout (which was different than the way he called ball-in-the-dirt strikeouts), there is zero reason to believe the runner was never called out.

 

The umpire had clearly established his MO for calls on a standard strikeout vs. a ball-in-the-dirt strikeout throughout the game. He called this one like a standard swinging strikeout, not the other.

[TheDude]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

The right hand going up indicates there was no contact between the bat and the ball. In other words, it's not a foul.

[Chris]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

 

The umpire waved his hand to the right to signal that no contact was made, which prompted AJ to run. However, after making the signal for the strike he brought his arm back and made a fist pump to signal the out, the same way he did the entire night.

[K-Town]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

 

This was discussed earlier. In the previous at-bat, Rowand struck out on a ball in the dirt. The umpire didn't raise his hand to make the "out" call until Rowand was tagged. There were a couple of other examples, also. It was clearly an "out" call.

[K-Town]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

 

But...he has to see or hear him call him out before he does anything with the ball. Paul rolled the ball to the mound before the out was called.

 

No, he doesn't have to see or hear ANYTHING before he does anything with the ball. If the fielder is certain that he caught the ball, then he probably won't even look at the umpire.

[LoneStarCubFan]

From a previous post:

 

Eddings acknowledged he did not say that it was not caught. When asked why not, he said something to the extent that he wanted to see what the players did.

 

 

Why is Doug Eddings letting the players call the game for him?

 

Why does MLB continue to reward staggering incompetence? Eddings is the guy who bated Johnny Estrada into an ejection in the first inning of a Braves game earlier this year and threw Bobby Cox and Mike Hampton out in the ensuing argument.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

The right hand going up indicates there was no contact between the bat and the ball. In other words, it's not a foul.

 

A foul ball had nothing to do with it though and since you can run on a ball in the dirt after a 3rd strike that to me is where the probelm is. Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

[CuseCubFan69]

From a previous post:

 

Eddings acknowledged he did not say that it was not caught. When asked why not, he said something to the extent that he wanted to see what the players did.

 

 

Why is Doug Eddings letting the players call the game for him?

 

Why does MLB continue to reward staggering incompetence? Eddings is the guy who bated Johnny Estrada into an ejection in the first inning of a Braves game earlier this year and threw Bobby Cox and Mike Hampton out in the ensuing argument.

 

You can't do that as an ump and also where the heck were the otehr umps on this? They left him out to dry on this one.

[CuseCubFan69]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

 

But...he has to see or hear him call him out before he does anything with the ball. Paul rolled the ball to the mound before the out was called.

 

No, he doesn't have to see or hear ANYTHING before he does anything with the ball. If the fielder is certain that he caught the ball, then he probably won't even look at the umpire.

 

You are kidding right? You can not assume things like that.

[Chris]

Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

 

When I watch the replay on MLB.com I see the fist and then the ball thrown on the field.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

 

The umpire waved his hand to the right to signal that no contact was made, which prompted AJ to run. However, after making the signal for the strike he brought his arm back and made a fist pump to signal the out, the same way he did the entire night.

 

But with a longer delay. I just think that Paul assumed too quickly and got burned for it. I think that the ball was caught but that was under slow motion that I can say that. IMO, it's way too big of a game to assume anything.

[K-Town]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

 

But...he has to see or hear him call him out before he does anything with the ball. Paul rolled the ball to the mound before the out was called.

 

No, he doesn't have to see or hear ANYTHING before he does anything with the ball. If the fielder is certain that he caught the ball, then he probably won't even look at the umpire.

 

You are kidding right? You can not assume things like that.

 

 

Sure you can. It happens 99% of the time. Fielders rarely look at the umpire for the call, because they know what the call will be.

[K-Town]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

The right hand going up indicates there was no contact between the bat and the ball. In other words, it's not a foul.

 

A foul ball had nothing to do with it though and since you can run on a ball in the dirt after a 3rd strike that to me is where the probelm is. Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

 

Because he knew it was an out.

[CuseCubFan69]

Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

 

When I watch the replay on MLB.com I see the fist and then the ball thrown on the field.

 

I thought I saw Paul going toward the bench and rolling the ball just before the "out" call. If not, why would Paul not even think of throwing the ball if he saw AJ running because AJ took off when he saw the ump delay between the stright arm out and then the pump with the right hand up.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm curious...doesn't the ump always put up his right hand for a strike? We all know it was a strike but did he call him out too?

The right hand going up indicates there was no contact between the bat and the ball. In other words, it's not a foul.

 

A foul ball had nothing to do with it though and since you can run on a ball in the dirt after a 3rd strike that to me is where the probelm is. Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

 

Because he knew it was an out.

 

He assumed wrong then didn't he?

[CuseCubFan69]

So if an OF thinks he caught a ball cleanly that was boarderline close to the ground he should roll the ball in?

 

It doesn't matter. If that outfielder thinks he caught the ball, and the umpire calls the batter "out", but the batter continues to run to first base, should the batter be safe? Of course not. Out is out.

 

But...he has to see or hear him call him out before he does anything with the ball. Paul rolled the ball to the mound before the out was called.

 

No, he doesn't have to see or hear ANYTHING before he does anything with the ball. If the fielder is certain that he caught the ball, then he probably won't even look at the umpire.

 

You are kidding right? You can not assume things like that.

 

 

Sure you can. It happens 99% of the time. Fielders rarely look at the umpire for the call, because they know what the call will be.

 

I don't know about 99% of the time but they should always make sure. It's a game with humans and they make mistakes and it's the jobs of the players to do what they can to avoid it being a multiple mistake.

[Chris]

Again, why did Paul roll the ball before AJ was called out?

 

When I watch the replay on MLB.com I see the fist and then the ball thrown on the field.

 

I thought I saw Paul going toward the bench and rolling the ball just before the "out" call. If not, why would Paul not even think of throwing the ball if he saw AJ running because AJ took off when he saw the ump delay between the stright arm out and then the pump with the right hand up.

 

After watching the clip I think MLB.com has every possible angle of the play. A person can also slow the speed of the reel which is a cool feature. From the camera angle behind the play you see AJ look at the umpire and see the hand to the right and he took off, which was the smart play. However, as the umpire signals out the catcher throws the ball back on the field. In fact, the call and the throw are about as simultaneous as it could get. As far as why Paul didn't throw when he saw AJ running is another question. The way I view it is that regardless of whether or not Paul throws to first the umpire has called no contact as well as the out. With that being said, the inning was over.